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Ericsson
#71 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2015 8:13:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
The reason why I included Kenya Re is that despite the bearish run in the NSE it has defied all odds and given a return in excess of 25%.
Nobody expected and to quotes your concern Gok ownership
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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VituVingiSana
#72 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2015 9:12:41 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingi
GOK ownership also has positive aspects to a company where it holds stakes not only negative.
Safaricom which is doing well also has a bigger GOK ownership than KCB.

The stake/ownership is less relevant than control. Vodafone controls Safaricom. GoK controls KenRe. Same for KenGen or KPLC.
KCB - I think GoK has lots of influence but not absolute control.
NBK - GoK (& NSSF) controls it
EAPCC - Despite LaFarge's significant stake, GoK has control.

Overall, I'd rather NOT have GoK controlling a firm I am invested in.

* I have KenRe coz of its substantial cash & near cash [about 16/-], the CEO [who I admit I like & seems a serious chap] and the nature of the business [WB likes Reinsurance for the long-term] BUT that does not make it into my "let me buy and forget it until I turn 65" list because of GoK's control*
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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  | | Edit by user: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:17 PM | Reason: Not specified
guru267
#73 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 11:49:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
VituVingi
GOK ownership also has positive aspects to a company where it holds stakes not only negative.
Safaricom which is doing well also has a bigger GOK ownership than KCB.

The stake/ownership is less relevant than control. Vodafone controls Safaricom. GoK controls KenRe. Same for KenGen or KPLC.
KCB - I think GoK has lots of influence but not absolute control.
NBK - GoK (& NSSF) controls it
EAPCC - Despite LaFarge's significant stake, GoK has control.

Overall, I'd rather NOT have GoK controlling a firm I am invested in.

* I have KenRe coz of its substantial cash & near cash [about 16/-], the CEO [who I admit I like & seems a serious chap] and the nature of the business [WB likes Reinsurance for the long-term] BUT that does not make it into my "let me buy and forget it until I turn 65" list because of GoK's control*


GOK should divest 51% to a large re insurer looking for in roads into Africa and prepare for the removal of all concessions to KenRe by the year 2020.
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Elephant Man
#74 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 1:29:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/24/2008
Posts: 112
@guru267 GOK earlier this year increased the rate of cessions to KenRe to 20% and extended them for another 5 years (so I guess to end in early 2020). By then, if serikali is still broke, they may consider some asset disposals! I anticipate a small bonus and/or increased dividend for year ending 2015.
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Ericsson
#75 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 2:21:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
@guru267
Lare re insurer looking for in roads into Africa.Why sell our good performing companies to foreigners whose only intent will be to make money and repatriate the profits to their mother countries leaving us here poor.
Lets build our own world class institutions;if further divestment needed wacha ifanywe kwa NSE we buy the company.
Buy Kenya build Kenya.
Look at what Diageo did to EABL with the sh.20bn loan;who is benefitting.
Bamburi and BAT will always give hefty dividends to the benefit of the parent companies who own more than 50%;what is left for us is peanuts yet the money is being made here
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Ericsson
#76 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 2:29:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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sparkly
#77 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 2:52:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins
Life is short. Live passionately.
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Othelo
#78 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 2:56:26 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

I have always wondered why Africa cannot organise themselves and create some serious trading block and development fund!!!
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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VituVingiSana
#79 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 3:02:38 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
@guru267
Lare re insurer looking for in roads into Africa.Why sell our good performing companies to foreigners whose only intent will be to make money and repatriate the profits to their mother countries leaving us here poor.
Lets build our own world class institutions;if further divestment needed wacha ifanywe kwa NSE we buy the company.
Buy Kenya build Kenya.
Look at what Diageo did to EABL with the sh.20bn loan;who is benefitting.
Bamburi and BAT will always give hefty dividends to the benefit of the parent companies who own more than 50%;what is left for us is peanuts yet the money is being made here

@Ericsson - I agree.
- That's why Tanzania doesn't want Kenyan firms so they can build local firms. - And Rwanda should kick out all KE firms including Equity & KCB so they can build up their local firms.
- Uganda should also kick out KK.
- Then there's South Sudan who should kick out all Kenyan firms so they can promote their own institutions!
- Ethiopia should not allow any Kenyan firms in the country either and should continue focusing on building up local capacity.

In fact ALL countries should STOP investing in other countries & build up their own 'global' firms. Over time, they should even stop trading with each other.

*Sarcasm for those who do not get it. Investment & globalization create wealth. Claiming 'repatriation' of profits is bullshit coz they INVEST (where were Kenyans when they were investing?) to make a PROFIT which they should be allowed to use in ANY manner they want. If things were so good then why aren't more KENYANS investing in local firms instead of real estate, real estate, real estate*
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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VituVingiSana
#80 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2015 5:10:24 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Add on top of that WTO in Nairobi have hit a deadlock on a number of issues favouring developing countries like us.
China gave us the sh.10.5bn loan so that we don't raise any issue about unfair practices to nations like us.


What do you expect when wolves are negotiating with lambs.

Africans have to take by force what belongs to Africans. Stop extending begging bowls to our first/second world cousins

Well, who is the fool here?
In general terms, we (Kenya, EAC, Africa) do not believe in R&D. Let's look at farming. We are still using implements used 1,000 years ago. While the Americans are starting to use tractors with GPS on mega-farms, our farmers [with 3 wives & 20 kids] are sub-dividing 10 acre plots into 1 acre plots.

How many engineers does Kenya produce?
How many does China produce? Or India? These were also 3rd world [India still is] in 1963. What about South Korea? Even North Korea?

Can a Kenyan firm assemble [not even manufacture] a cost-effective kabambe mobile phone?

Back to the core topic...

EABL - A solid firm with a pedigree. It sells an ancient product but innovates thanks to support from its parent.

Bamburi - Cement has been produced for millennia but new technologies are changing the game. New products, new types of cement and new applications. Support from extensive R&D conducted by its parent.

*BTW, Equity is changing the game & has decimated BBK & SCBK by being INNOVATIVE. That is what counts not expecting favors just because a firm is 'local' coz that line is old. Look at Kenya's protected sugar producers. The only reason I don't have Equity as a 'lifetime' stock is coz of the uncertain succession.*
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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  | | Edit by user: Saturday, December 19, 2015 5:19 PM | Reason: Not specified
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