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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:Friends, Investors, Wanaraia, Wazalendo:
When has our government+controlled firms (since kenyatta) ever come out smelling like roses?
Recently we had:
- KCB & NBK almost collapsed
- KPC (triton. Kenol won a judgment against KPC)
- KAA (qatari, onejetone)
- Grand Regency sale (no public auction)
- Milk
- Maize (I publicly derided this scheme. I knew it wud be misused)
NEED I SAY MORE? Seriously...seems like another bout of "controlled corruption" from the govt...and they're basically pulling a cover up...blaming it on ARM
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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I am shaking my head... ARM bought the fertilizer on the OPEN market... they did not steal it or buy it from NCPB (like ruto's buddy kibor) Why are the GoK defenders not targeting S&S? Why was S&S (not a farmer) allowed to buy subsidized fertilizer? Why was S&S allowed to sell fertilizer to ARM (or other non-farms)? This is like kibor being allowed to buy maize as a middleman. The actual millers (or citizens) were NOT allocated enough maize but kibor 'bought' maize then sold it to the millers at market prices. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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I am making a contribution not defending either side from the facts already in the public domain considering wide coverage of this saga. Make no mistake, what ARM did is first and foremost is morally wrong and violates even laws that protect trademarks & other intellectual properties etc etc.... its not even blending, it's from a GOK bag to Mavuno bag. A company of ARM stature should be the last one to swindle Kenyans in this manner...perhaps a Kariobangi light industries firm would be excused.... However, on a lighter note they should hire a communications director or corporate & regulation affairs manager for the obvious reasons to defend their cause in the short term and protect their image for the long term. They can as well get one from wazua going by the strong defense mounted on their behalf on this website. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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Why shud kariobangi light be excused? Is there proof they were not blending? Kenyan tea is used in blending other teas, so why is blending morally wrong? And why did NCPB sell to S&S? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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@VVS and Horton
Those are good arguments in defence of ARM... I am not defending the government - infact, we all know, very ironically, the government this far can not be trusted with anything belonging to the mwananchi but that ARM was using the fertilizer meant for distribution to farmers was morally wrong it doesnt matter how many good words you use to defend that. The least they would have done is consult the government and procure thier own shipment from where the government had procured.
That they are even blending raises another very critical question. What quality of fertilizers are they producing for the kenyan market? They surely were not blending "poor" quality with their "high" quality.... they were not even blending with same level of quality coz it wouldnt make sense.... then it means, their quality is very inferior... which leaves us wondering if we shouldnt be encouraging farmers to source Mea fertilizers or any other competitor instead!! And let them not tell us that they are on charity to buy high quality fertilizer and blend with their low quality(which they have been selling almost 5k for 50kg bags) and now they will sell this presumably "higher" quality blended fertilizer for less because @VVS should be hitting their backside real hard as a shareholder!!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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This stinks and the smell is coming from ARM. No company should be buying stuff clearly marked Government of Kenya in their godowns. I own some ARM shares but the company doesn't pass the integrity test.
If we had a functioning govt this action should have cost ARM hundreds of millions in penalties.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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The corporation -ARM in this case- is a profit by any means necessary persona. it doesnt owe allegiance to 'morality' and public good. Despite all the hyped CSR, profits and shareholder value are the bottom line period. case in point kplc You can be very moral and compassionate person but still own shares in a company that doesnt share your values. The company is legally a person but doesnt share humanities code of morality. That said ARM is just another muhindi family company, ala triton,trackit so no suprise here. Two wrongs dont make a right..even if ruto stole no justification for this kind of avarice I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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..difference between ARM and other counters is that their crap has been exposed... If you left all companies with muhindi touch in them i doubt you'd be in the stock market.. Anyway..issue of a kshs1.5billion medium term note by ARM is coming up..fixed interest..over 5 years..tradeable..they hope for an oversubscription.. will it perform? ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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digitek1 wrote:The corporation -ARM in this case- is a profit by any means necessary persona. it doesnt owe allegiance to 'morality' and public good.
That said ARM is just another muhindi family company, ala triton,trackit so no suprise here.
Two wrongs dont make a right..even if ruto stole no justification for this kind of avarice Pole to hate on you but u must b a kyuk or kale... U r accusing the jamaa of being a mhindi firm yet it is the kyuk bigshots (kenyatta, kibaki, muhoho, chotara) who stole the land in RV, then kale bigshots (moi, kulei, kosgei) who stole the rest... I remember how PNU came after my jamaa for the spectre deal lakini 'forgot' about the land in Aberdares & Mau. When Raila went to Mau, kikuyu & kale politicians kept off yet this is a national resource! My questions are simple (let's ignore the tribal aspect): Who owns S&S? Is S&S a farmer? Why was S&S allowed to buy subsidized fertilizer? Why was S&S allowed to sell this to to non-farmers? Who else benefited like S&S? ruto allowed kibor (among other friends) to buy subsidized maize. They then re-sold to other millers. Why is kibor free? Why is ruto walking free? Why is GoK looking at subsidizing milk? [Hint: kenyatta own brookside] Kenyans need to choose 'clean' leaders especially those without the tainted kanu connection like ruto, gideon, uhuru... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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ProverB wrote:..difference between ARM and other counters is that their crap has been exposed...
If you left all companies with muhindi touch in them i doubt you'd be in the stock market..
Anyway..issue of a kshs1.5billion medium term note by ARM is coming up..fixed interest..over 5 years..tradeable..they hope for an oversubscription.. will it perform? Cement is the main business. Fertilizer is 3-5% only. It will be over-subscribed. BTW, who owns CMC motors? Why were they chosen to supply cars to GoK? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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True dat...why is S&S not being questioned?? or even accused of
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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..CMC did not do so well 2009...despite supplying gova ...ama hawakuwa wamelipwa bado?..if they'd been paid..then why do so poorly? ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/2f9l7fz/-/index.html
BTW, who is this S&S (Supplies and Services Ltd)? Who owns S&S? Why is S&S selling subsidized fertilizer? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Shame; shame; shame on you for degenerating this discussion into a tribal/ethnicity arguement vailed as a political economic one! The facts are simple: 1] Kikuyus and Kalenjins did NOT steal land in RV - Kenyatta, Moi and their cronies did 2] Who owns S&S? It doesn't matter! S&S is a body-corporate that can sue and be sued. Anyone with a problem with S&S buying the fertilizer from GoK can sue S&S - not the owners! 3] Why did S&S buy subsidized fertilizer? Because GoK offered it for sale to any interested bidder. S&S won the tender to purchase some of the fertilizer. If you never saw the tender announcement, it's probably because you are not a fertilizer dealer! 4] Why is S&S selling subsidized fertilizer? Because they bought it for re-sale! The tender did not specify that buyers must use it in their farms; nor were traders excluded from bidding. 5] Who owns CMC? Actually I don't see how this relates to fertizer, but I own CMC...together with another 20,000 people! CMC has no outright majority shareholder...that's why I like it so much. 6] Why were they [CMC] chosen to supply cars to GoK? Because, again, they won the open tender! Have you noticed that non of the other major dealers have ever registered a complaint with The Public Procurement Oversight Authority (PPOA)? **** If you want to learn how the process was done, see today's Nation, p31 Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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@VVS - We don't know who S&S is. All we know is that there were bags with GoK printed all over them found in ARM being repackaged for sale. If there is anyone who knows who S&S is it's ARM.
Corruption in all forms should be disdained whether it's carried out by politicians, your favorite uncle or neighbor. The net result of it is that it BLEEDS the country.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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Check out The Facts About The Fertilizer 'Scam'
in Today's Daily Nation pg 31
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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@MV - Absolutely... lakini ARM has stated that they bought it for blending on the OPEN MARKET... and someone at NCPB ( & Ministry of Agriculture as well) knows better than ARM who S&S is... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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@mukiha - LOL... I was hoping for such a reaction coz 'ethnicity' is used to divert attention from the real cause... It is a pity that 'ordinary' kyuks/GEMA & kalenjin get tarred with one brush when it is the high & mighty who benefit... akina ruto, uhuru, kibor, moi, etc BUT I am disappointed in the voting trends in Central... where no matter how good the 'other' candidate is... the votes are ALWAYS geared towards a kikuyu candidate. And we have statistics from 1992 to the 2007 elections on this... So back to the core topic: If all was above board (Daily Nation Page 31) then why did GoK (police) invade ARM offices & make it seem like something nefarious was going on?Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Main contenders in 1992: Moi, Matiba, Kibaki, Oginga Main contenders in 1997: Moi, Kibaki, Wamlwa, Ngilu, Raila Main contenders in 2002: Uhuru, Kibaki, Nyachae Main contenders in 2007: Kibaki, Raila Clearly, in each of these election, none of the candidates can be described as much better than the rest. Thus each region of the country tended to favour their own sons (or the candidate supported by their favorite son). This was not just a peculiarity of Central Province. *************** Why did the police raid ARM godowns? They were reacting to the NTV story about "stolen fertilizer". It was the right move to make in light of the report. You never want to give a suspected thief time to destroy or hide the evidence. Now that it appears that this story was poorly researched, the police and NTV must prepare to appologise to ARM for giving them bad publicity. Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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@Mukiha When matters take a political tangent, even the finest minds are not safe from the usual balderdash. You shouldnt be suprised that thay are all quickly herded into the usual cocoons. We are all waitng hear the real crime commited by ARM. If any thing, blame should go to the Govt agencies for failing to put proper valves in place, to ensure only target farmers get the subsidised fertilizer, Dunia ni msongamano..
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