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Elliott Wave Analysis Of The NSE 20
VituVingiSana
#1121 Posted : Sunday, November 01, 2015 6:47:16 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
The Fed's hike of 0.25% is a known known. It's about when not if. A 0.25% hike isn't devastating. In Kenya, we hike by 2% like it's nothing! We moved from 9% to 22% in months for 91 day T-Bills.

Very few will move their 'hot money' from Kenya to the US for a 0.25% increase in USD rates. The countries that will see a movement of significant funds are those with low rates e.g. Japan, UK, EU, etc...


And what do you think will happen to the Kshs and inflation with an increased worldwide demand for the US dollar?
The KES/USD may weaken BUT most of our imports are not from USD countries. For all practical purposes, an exporter from China can reduce the USD price (if RMB/USD strengthens) so we are not affected.

Some say the 'weaker' oil prices are as much as result of a stronger USD as much as increased supply. Gold became 'cheaper' as the USD strengthened.

Let's take Kenya as an example. We market our holidays in USD but if our local costs in KES remain the same but USD moves to KES 120, we can sell a $1,000 (today's price) holiday for $900.

Practically speaking there's no 1:1 ratio but just as an example.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1122 Posted : Sunday, November 01, 2015 6:52:32 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
mugo2of3 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
The Fed's hike of 0.25% is a known known. It's about when not if. A 0.25% hike isn't devastating. In Kenya, we hike by 2% like it's nothing! We moved from 9% to 22% in months for 91 day T-Bills.

Very few will move their 'hot money' from Kenya to the US for a 0.25% increase in USD rates. The countries that will see a movement of significant funds are those with low rates e.g. Japan, UK, EU, etc...


@vvs, I am not an economist but I think that you have over-simplified the effect of federal rates rise.

Fed rate is the equivalent of our CBK rate, banks and other lending institutions can raise rates further based on this and other factors. (Though not in the haphazard way that our banks have done of late; read StanChart and Co.)

The near-zero Fed rates were introduced to counter the ravages of the GFC. The consensus is that Dollar investors have had lots of easy cash over the last few years.
This is the money that they would typically invest in high return ventures like KE NSE and Gov't securities.

The fear is the knock-on effect this would have both mathematically and mood-wise.
I'm thinking of less cash to put in our already ailing NSE.

My two cents...

Of course, it is simplified. This topic is worthy of a library. Even a career. And Nobel prize!

And increase of 0.25% for many borrowers is affordable. Banks & US Treasury were the primary beneficiaries. For those borrowing at 4% will pay 4.25%. Compare 4.25% (USD) to 22% (KES). Even with the risk of depreciation, I'd take that bet.

Or Kenya's USD Eurobond. Someone who can borrow in the US at 4% has the ability to buy the bond at 5.5% & arbitrage.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#1123 Posted : Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:01:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
The Fed's hike of 0.25% is a known known. It's about when not if. A 0.25% hike isn't devastating. In Kenya, we hike by 2% like it's nothing! We moved from 9% to 22% in months for 91 day T-Bills.

Very few will move their 'hot money' from Kenya to the US for a 0.25% increase in USD rates. The countries that will see a movement of significant funds are those with low rates e.g. Japan, UK, EU, etc...

Fed rate hike will blow the junk bond market fuse. Liquidity will disappear swiftly in the process. This is the bidless event I expect in 2016. Nobody will be willing to touch long end paper thus forcing short end yields to spike. In a liquidity vacuum all markets will likely deflate. But my view is since the cycle end will be a bond bubble burst, equities will benefit after the sizable panic selloff. Bond portfolio baskets will blow up for good paying cts on the dollar for those few lucky ones that don't get vapourized!

A hike will hurt Bond Markets in some countries. If the interest rate rises from 2% to 2.25% that's a 12.5% change in yield.

In Kenya, 0.25% makes no difference to us when we have 2.5% movements are 'normal' ...!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
lochaz-index
#1124 Posted : Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:05:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
VituVingiSana wrote:
hisah wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
The Fed's hike of 0.25% is a known known. It's about when not if. A 0.25% hike isn't devastating. In Kenya, we hike by 2% like it's nothing! We moved from 9% to 22% in months for 91 day T-Bills.

Very few will move their 'hot money' from Kenya to the US for a 0.25% increase in USD rates. The countries that will see a movement of significant funds are those with low rates e.g. Japan, UK, EU, etc...

Fed rate hike will blow the junk bond market fuse. Liquidity will disappear swiftly in the process. This is the bidless event I expect in 2016. Nobody will be willing to touch long end paper thus forcing short end yields to spike. In a liquidity vacuum all markets will likely deflate. But my view is since the cycle end will be a bond bubble burst, equities will benefit after the sizable panic selloff. Bond portfolio baskets will blow up for good paying cts on the dollar for those few lucky ones that don't get vapourized!

A hike will hurt Bond Markets in some countries. If the interest rate rises from 2% to 2.25% that's a 12.5% change in yield.

In Kenya, 0.25% makes no difference to us when we have 2.5% movements are 'normal' ...!



@vvs I don't think the fed is going to hike the rate anytime soon. Infact I would aver that a negative interest regime/reducing the rates and or another bout of QE is more likely.

The QE binge was executed by the fed in collusion with the BoJ, BoE and the ECB. It was crafted such that at any one point one of them would be easing. Going by the most recent proclamations/actions of both the ECB and BoJ, a fed rate hike is very unlikely as it would betray the spirit of that agreement.

Most of Europe is also in a negative interest regime so a hike in rates by the fed would trigger a very huge capital outflow from that region. Basically, the current situation is like back in the 1920's when the fed reduced /delayed a hike to help Europe whose economies were on the ropes only for themselves to be caught naked in 1929.

A rate hike would also be the storied straw that broke the camels back for junk bonds as @hisah has intimated. In essence, most carry trades/arbitrages would be caught in no man's land. The snow ball effect in that scenario would be extremely nasty as it would set in motion a chain of sovereign debt defaults.

The US economy is also very shaky. Reduction of the rates back in the GFC period was meant to prevent it from flat-lining. So far it has failed to provide the much needed stimulus. A look at the Q3 corporate performance indicates an economy in the early stages of a recession. A rate hike will only serve to accelerate it probably into a depression. Furthermore, the US is juggling a couple of bubbles brought forth by the easing programs/ zero rates. If they do hike, a lot of industries will be in trouble including but not limited to the stock market.

An extremely muscular dollar(thanks to a fed hike) will be catastrophic currency wise in the present deflationary conditions. I would expect all currencies that are still on the dollar peg to depeg forthwith. Of particular interest would be the yuan. A steroid fueled mad dash to the pits would ensue.

In my opinion, the Fed is just posturing/pretending to hold all the trump cards but I don't think they are in control onwards.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
VituVingiSana
#1125 Posted : Sunday, November 01, 2015 8:13:51 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
@lochaz - Often I wish we had their problems!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mnandii
#1126 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 7:42:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
When social mood waxes positive, as reflected by persistently rising stock prices, voters desire to retain the leader who symbolizes their upbeat feelings and who they presume helped cause the conditions attending them. When the social mood becomes more negative, as reflected by persistently falling stock prices, voters decide to throw out the incumbent who symbolizes their downbeat feelings and who they presume helped cause the conditions attending them. The political policies of the incumbent and his challenger are irrelevant to this dynamic. The key is a desire for change per se, not any particular type of change. The standard presumption has no explanation for reconciling the relationship between these phenomena.

—The Elliott Wave Theorist, November 1999, reprinted in Pioneering Studies of Socionomics
(For charts and further commentary backing up this case, please see The Wave Principle of Human Social Behavior, pp.273-281 and Pioneering Studies in Socionomics, pp.57-58.)
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
VituVingiSana
#1127 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 10:27:27 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
Why a smart, sensible leader who knows what the right thing to do will start doing what should not be done to get re-elected.

The paragraph below bolsters my belief we need a single (7-year) term for substantive political offices especially for the presidency.

mnandii wrote:
When social mood waxes positive, as reflected by persistently rising stock prices, voters desire to retain the leader who symbolizes their upbeat feelings and who they presume helped cause the conditions attending them. When the social mood becomes more negative, as reflected by persistently falling stock prices, voters decide to throw out the incumbent who symbolizes their downbeat feelings and who they presume helped cause the conditions attending them. The political policies of the incumbent and his challenger are irrelevant to this dynamic. The key is a desire for change per se, not any particular type of change. The standard presumption has no explanation for reconciling the relationship between these phenomena.

—The Elliott Wave Theorist, November 1999, reprinted in Pioneering Studies of Socionomics
(For charts and further commentary backing up this case, please see The Wave Principle of Human Social Behavior, pp.273-281 and Pioneering Studies in Socionomics, pp.57-58.)

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Spikes
#1128 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 10:45:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
load guyz....load heavily.....next week NSE will rebound.....harvest massively...!
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
Cornelius Vanderbilt
#1129 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 10:51:02 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 817
ni kungori
Aguytrying
#1130 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 5:01:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
@hisah. I've started hunting bargains on select stocks on a monthly basis in small quantities as per my buy list, even I feel like the drop is not yet over esp when I see saf, equity, BAT. Barely moved. This bear may last a long time, so I'm planting over a long time, not one time event.

The stocks I really desire are the ones that are barely moving, I'll keep my powder dry for them
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
hisah
#1131 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 5:14:41 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
NSE20 November first trading day closes at 3,856.

The index is approaching oversold levels in the monthly charts! The next rebound when the bulls take over will be awesome! @mnandii, spt, sparkly keep that oversold monthly reference in mind.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Emerger
#1132 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 7:41:58 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/1/2014
Posts: 45
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
hisah wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
The Fed's hike of 0.25% is a known known. It's about when not if. A 0.25% hike isn't devastating. In Kenya, we hike by 2% like it's nothing! We moved from 9% to 22% in months for 91 day T-Bills.

Very few will move their 'hot money' from Kenya to the US for a 0.25% increase in USD rates. The countries that will see a movement of significant funds are those with low rates e.g. Japan, UK, EU, etc...

Fed rate hike will blow the junk bond market fuse. Liquidity will disappear swiftly in the process. This is the bidless event I expect in 2016. Nobody will be willing to touch long end paper thus forcing short end yields to spike. In a liquidity vacuum all markets will likely deflate. But my view is since the cycle end will be a bond bubble burst, equities will benefit after the sizable panic selloff. Bond portfolio baskets will blow up for good paying cts on the dollar for those few lucky ones that don't get vapourized!

A hike will hurt Bond Markets in some countries. If the interest rate rises from 2% to 2.25% that's a 12.5% change in yield.

In Kenya, 0.25% makes no difference to us when we have 2.5% movements are 'normal' ...!


The eagerly hyped Fed rate hike is pegged on several factors as clearly outlined in the chairs press conference after the Oct FOMC meeting this includes but not limited to global factors, inflation, employment statistics etc etc.

From the wazua knowledge base how will these factors determine the Fed rate hike and/or its impact;
1. The recent US co's earnings reports are majorly below the analysts expectations signifyings possible challenges in the US economy itself, thus effects on inflations and/or employments,
2. Abe's japan & Jinping's china being the largest bondholders in the US markets,wont the Fed not look at the possibility of the 2 (among others) reactions should the rate hike affect the bond market as @hisah puts it,
3. The rates comparability of US & KE cannot have the same impact as the economy sizes are 2 uncomparables hence there is still a high possibility of capital outflows should the FOMC largely vote to hike the rate,

My 2 cents
Spikes
#1133 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 9:22:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
The most difficult thing is timing the market when it has bottomed out.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
VituVingiSana
#1134 Posted : Monday, November 02, 2015 10:55:45 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
Spikes wrote:
The most difficult thing is timing the market when it has bottomed out.
The time to get in is when it has bottomed out.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
snipermnoma
#1135 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:06:22 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 257
hisah wrote:
NSE20 November first trading day closes at 3,856.

The index is approaching oversold levels in the monthly charts! The next rebound when the bulls take over will be awesome! @mnandii, spt, sparkly keep that oversold monthly reference in mind.


Noted
Spikes
#1136 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2015 8:37:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
When do you think the bulls are going to takeover?
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
sparkly
#1137 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2015 8:53:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Spikes wrote:
The most difficult thing is timing the market when it has bottomed out.

Picking a good stock is more rewarding than picking the bottom.
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#1138 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:01:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Spikes wrote:
When do you think the bulls are going to takeover?

I give the market 5 years to break the 6200 resistance. PROJECT 2020.
Life is short. Live passionately.
VituVingiSana
#1139 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:18:28 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Spikes wrote:
The most difficult thing is timing the market when it has bottomed out.

Picking a good stock is more rewarding than picking the bottom.

Word. Applause Applause Applause
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mlennyma
#1140 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2015 11:46:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Spikes wrote:
When do you think the bulls are going to takeover?

I give the market 5 years to break the 6200 resistance. PROJECT 2020.

if the economic situation is exactly what the noise coming up portrays I wait to see how companies will thrive in a falling economy
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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