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KRA's housing tax amnesty, and my choice to ignore it.
businesspundit
#1 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 9:36:13 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/16/2015
Posts: 15
Hello,
KRA is running a promotion. Landlord you are forgiven!
Is anyone actually paying tax of 10% of gross rental income?
can you give me your insights knowing 1/3 will be stolen.

First of all, for the record I am against paying tax to the Government. I avoid it like the plague.
Especially when I see prezo, ministers, mps, senators, mcas and everyone in between taking numerous useless foreign trips.

Then I see the huge convoys of cars with sirens and I get an ulcer. The big salaries. The big houses like the one of Kibaki with unpaid water bills that are supposedly the responsibility of tax payer.

When IEBC announced yesterday that they were going to procure a new set of bvr kits cause the ones they bought last time (that didn't work and costed a-ga-zillion) are obsolete, I almost threw up.


I think to my-self, you have to be an idiot to pay taxes. So what to do?
Hide? Under-declare? Wait for KRA? Wait for next amnesty? Bribe? Raise your rental prices and pass the cost to poor Wanjiku (or Atieno)?



cwmuruga
#2 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 10:38:41 AM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 4/11/2012
Posts: 2
Ignorance is bliss, until that day a caveat is placed on your property. You can run but you can never hide from the taxman. With GIS and the IDMS between Govt Agencies, Service providers, Banks & KRA, I wish you good luck. You need it, abd btw you elect the people you have mentioned, don't you?
sparkly
#3 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 11:58:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
businesspundit wrote:
Hello,
KRA is running a promotion. Landlord you are forgiven!
Is anyone actually paying tax of 10% of gross rental income?
can you give me your insights knowing 1/3 will be stolen.

First of all, for the record I am against paying tax to the Government. I avoid it like the plague.
Especially when I see prezo, ministers, mps, senators, mcas and everyone in between taking numerous useless foreign trips.

Then I see the huge convoys of cars with sirens and I get an ulcer. The big salaries. The big houses like the one of Kibaki with unpaid water bills that are supposedly the responsibility of tax payer.

When IEBC announced yesterday that they were going to procure a new set of bvr kits cause the ones they bought last time (that didn't work and costed a-ga-zillion) are obsolete, I almost threw up.


I think to my-self, you have to be an idiot to pay taxes. So what to do?
Hide? Under-declare? Wait for KRA? Wait for next amnesty? Bribe? Raise your rental prices and pass the cost to poor Wanjiku (or Atieno)?





Very juvenile thinking. Sossion please cancel the strike so that this standard 3 pupil can go back to school.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Tbags
#4 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 11:59:36 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/30/2015
Posts: 23
I would not declare.I'd Just hike the rent and wait.KRA are not as efficient/effective as they pretend to be. Otw talk to other Landlords in the neighbourhood.If one of them has declared,then better do the same.
DBLyon
#5 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 1:45:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 149
Location: Nairobi
businesspundit wrote:
Hello,
KRA is running a promotion. Landlord you are forgiven!
Is anyone actually paying tax of 10% of gross rental income?
can you give me your insights knowing 1/3 will be stolen.

First of all, for the record I am against paying tax to the Government. I avoid it like the plague.
Especially when I see prezo, ministers, mps, senators, mcas and everyone in between taking numerous useless foreign trips.

Then I see the huge convoys of cars with sirens and I get an ulcer. The big salaries. The big houses like the one of Kibaki with unpaid water bills that are supposedly the responsibility of tax payer.

When IEBC announced yesterday that they were going to procure a new set of bvr kits cause the ones they bought last time (that didn't work and costed a-ga-zillion) are obsolete, I almost threw up.


I think to my-self, you have to be an idiot to pay taxes. So what to do?
Hide? Under-declare? Wait for KRA? Wait for next amnesty? Bribe? Raise your rental prices and pass the cost to poor Wanjiku (or Atieno)?





@businesspundit How do you expect the government to run the country if your policy is to never pay taxes?
When you live for others' opinions, you are dead.

- Carlos Slim Helu
Ash Ock
#6 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 2:07:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
DBLyon wrote:
@businesspundit How do you expect the government to run the country if your policy is to never pay taxes?


Not saying I support @businesspundit (I unwillingly pay my share), but just today, we read this: "Treasury promises IMF retrenchment of civil servants by December" while just a few months back we got this:



The government should really get its priorities right.

Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
DBLyon
#7 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 3:29:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 149
Location: Nairobi
Ash Ock wrote:
DBLyon wrote:
@businesspundit How do you expect the government to run the country if your policy is to never pay taxes?


The government should really get its priorities right.


@Ash Ock: Agreed. Our legislators need to clean up their act, that's for sure. In fact, their behaviour is quite disgusting. I just don't believe that 2 wrongs make a right. I do my bit (reluctantly too) and at the same time make noise about their wrongs that should be stopped.
When you live for others' opinions, you are dead.

- Carlos Slim Helu
Mike Ock
#8 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 6:00:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
@businesspundit all over the world most government money is wasted. As any entity grows headcount, it's efficiency declines. So your excuse for not paying taxes is not valid.

That being said, however, it is also common knowledge in the business community that if you pay each and every tax obligation, you are likely to have no profit left. I learnt this the hard way. After paying in full and toying with losses in my business this year, in March some stupid KRA matafakas still came for me aggressively. I had to part with 150k to shoo them off. I suspect it was my competitors doing.

So what balance can be struck between keeping the lights on in this godforsaken country of ours, and making profits in your business? I decided to do the following:

1. Just have a budget for KRA every month. Doesn't have to be every obligation in full, but it can just be whatever you can manage. This will serve to clear your conscience about contributing to Kenyas development and cool off whoever decides to investigate you. If you are one of those who have never paid anything and will never pay, the investigators will not spare you.

2. Practice tax avoidance wherever you can. Use tax haven loopholes if you can. They are the biggest loopholes available.

3. Have some money set aside for bribes, just in case they come for you. No more than 150k.

PS: all these tips are for small businesses.
Mike Ock
#9 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 6:07:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
DBLyon wrote:

@Ash Ock: Agreed. Our legislators need to clean up their act, that's for sure. In fact, their behaviour is quite disgusting. I just don't believe that 2 wrongs make a right. I do my bit (reluctantly too) and at the same time make noise about their wrongs that should be stopped.


You'll struggle to pay then your rival will eventually send KRA officials to harass you, EABL style. You'll be forced to bribe your way out just like someone who hasn't been paying. It happened to me, now I've had to stop paying in full in order to have a bribe war chest against any more salvos by my rival.
VituVingiSana
#10 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 7:31:04 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
Mike Ock wrote:
DBLyon wrote:

@Ash Ock: Agreed. Our legislators need to clean up their act, that's for sure. In fact, their behaviour is quite disgusting. I just don't believe that 2 wrongs make a right. I do my bit (reluctantly too) and at the same time make noise about their wrongs that should be stopped.


You'll struggle to pay then your rival will eventually send KRA officials to harass you, EABL style. You'll be forced to bribe your way out just like someone who hasn't been paying. It happened to me, now I've had to stop paying in full in order to have a bribe war chest against any more salvos by my rival.

Don't blame EABL for Keroche's woes. As I read more and gathered more information the situation seemed clearer.

1) Keroche was selling similar products as EABL e.g. Viena Ice = Smirnoff Ice
2) The tax per Keroche on similar products was lower than what EABL was paying. KRA's rules are often vague and subject to different interpretations. Both Keroche & EABL could have been right.
3) EABL must have protested to KRA about the differential.
4) EABL must have asked KRA for one of 2 options: EABL pays the same lower rate as Keroche OR Keroche (et al) pay the same higher rate as EABL. [The same drama applies to BAT vs Mastermind + Safricom vs Airtel/Telkom for licensing fees].
5) KRA/GoK would 'lose' taxes if they reduced taxes on EABL to match Keroche so instead they went after Keroche for higher taxes.
6) IMHO, I think KRA should tighten up the ambiguities, tell Keroche & EABL to pay per the (unambiguous) law/rules going forward. For the past, give EABL a credit [to bring the taxes at par] for the differential vis-a-vis Keroche (et al). Why punish Keroche for KRA's (& lawmakers) faults?

@AShOck @Mike Ock - I feel your pain. The tax regime should be transparent. And simple. I believe it is deliberately not so because the folks at KRA want loopholes and ambiguities so they can hassle taxpayers for bribes.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#11 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 8:04:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,103
Location: Nairobi
A (listed firm) CEO, an employee not shareholder, told me that KRA officials started calling him at home (not his office) when he ignored their not-so-subtle attempts at demanding bribes. He refused to take their calls on his cellphone (& home) and insisted on using written correspondence or calls at the office. Ultimately, they left him alone but it disrupted the firm's operations, including imports, as the CEO, CFO, accounting department and auditors spent a lot of time with the KRA going over the books. It turned out the books were fine.

It's tough being a legitimate business(man) in Kenya. Large firms can hire auditors to fight the KRA but for small businesses it is horrendous.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Mike Ock
#12 Posted : Friday, September 25, 2015 10:28:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
@VVS, the dirty secret of most small business owners in Kenya is that no one ever pays taxes when their business is still fledgling with meagre profits in the beginning. If someone pays taxes, it's when the business is stable. On top of that, there's the silly cyber cafe KRA registration services that put everyone on VAT requirement. So the taxman, when sent to harass you, always knows he'll get something wrong with your small business if he digs hard enough, and he really presses that point, forcing you into a bribe
mulla
#13 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:15:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/15/2013
Posts: 301
Mike Ock wrote:
@VVS, the dirty secret of most small business owners in Kenya is that no one ever pays taxes when their business is still fledgling with meagre profits in the beginning. If someone pays taxes, it's when the business is stable. On top of that, there's the silly cyber cafe KRA registration services that put everyone on VAT requirement. So the taxman, when sent to harass you, always knows he'll get something wrong with your small business if he digs hard enough, and he really presses that point, forcing you into a bribe

But as a small business owner(apart from PAYE)are there any taxes you are obliged to pay if your turnover is less than 5m per annum?
signed confused business owner
Mike Ock
#14 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 7:13:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
Yes, sales tax, nhif, nssf, withholding tax and any other industry specific tax.
Tbags
#15 Posted : Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:12:55 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/30/2015
Posts: 23
Anyone who has complied or is intending to comply with this amnesty so far?
Gordon Gekko
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 22, 2015 12:11:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Mike Ock wrote:
Yes, sales tax, nhif, nssf, withholding tax and any other industry specific tax.

Your lies spoil your point. NHIF isn't a tax, its insurance. NSSF isn't a tax, its a saving.
Ali Baba
#17 Posted : Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:45:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 571
businesspundit wrote:
Hello,
KRA is running a promotion. Landlord you are forgiven!
Is anyone actually paying tax of 10% of gross rental income?
can you give me your insights knowing 1/3 will be stolen.

First of all, for the record I am against paying tax to the Government. I avoid it like the plague.
Especially when I see prezo, ministers, mps, senators, mcas and everyone in between taking numerous useless foreign trips.

Then I see the huge convoys of cars with sirens and I get an ulcer. The big salaries. The big houses like the one of Kibaki with unpaid water bills that are supposedly the responsibility of tax payer.

When IEBC announced yesterday that they were going to procure a new set of bvr kits cause the ones they bought last time (that didn't work and costed a-ga-zillion) are obsolete, I almost threw up.


I think to my-self, you have to be an idiot to pay taxes. So what to do?
Hide? Under-declare? Wait for KRA? Wait for next amnesty? Bribe? Raise your rental prices and pass the cost to poor Wanjiku (or Atieno)?I'm waiting for the NEXT AMNESTY !! If I have to raise money for the Stanlib reit and december holidays,how can I accept the current KRA offer ?? But I will be ready to accept the next amnesty,possibly in 2020...




timbosho
#18 Posted : Friday, October 23, 2015 7:51:21 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/23/2013
Posts: 34
Gordon Gekko wrote:
Mike Ock wrote:
Yes, sales tax, nhif, nssf, withholding tax and any other industry specific tax.

Your lies spoil your point. NHIF isn't a tax, its insurance. NSSF isn't a tax, its a saving.


Lets agree what a tax is. My understanding of tax is money taken from my earned income by the government or its bodies and its taken before my income is handed over to me and its taken by force. I have no option. Pay or go to jail. Whatever you call it, PAYE, NSSF, NHIF its still deducted from gross income and you have no choice in the matter. You cant say this month ni kunoma sitaki kutoa NSSF. So by my layman understanding NHIF and the rest are taxes.
Boris Boyka
#19 Posted : Friday, October 23, 2015 8:16:18 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
timbosho wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
Mike Ock wrote:
Yes, sales tax, nhif, nssf, withholding tax and any other industry specific tax.

Your lies spoil your point. NHIF isn't a tax, its insurance. NSSF isn't a tax, its a saving.


Lets agree what a tax is. My understanding of tax is money taken from my earned income by the government or its bodies and its taken before my income is handed over to me and its taken by force. I have no option. Pay or go to jail. Whatever you call it, PAYE, NSSF, NHIF its still deducted from gross income and you have no choice in the matter. You cant say this month ni kunoma sitaki kutoa NSSF. So by my layman understanding NHIF and the rest are taxes.

Shame on you Shame on you This isn't layman but Kuria,Aladwa,Muthama &Duale like thinking.
Tax goes to gvt and you can't utilize it personally. Nssf , nhif are mandatory contributions which you utilize (personally) use when sick and on retirement. Made mandatory to assist you! Civic education is far below in Kenyan society with "educated fools"
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
sitaki.kujulikana
#20 Posted : Friday, October 23, 2015 9:12:28 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Boris Boyka wrote:
timbosho wrote:
Gordon Gekko wrote:
Mike Ock wrote:
Yes, sales tax, nhif, nssf, withholding tax and any other industry specific tax.

Your lies spoil your point. NHIF isn't a tax, its insurance. NSSF isn't a tax, its a saving.


Lets agree what a tax is. My understanding of tax is money taken from my earned income by the government or its bodies and its taken before my income is handed over to me and its taken by force. I have no option. Pay or go to jail. Whatever you call it, PAYE, NSSF, NHIF its still deducted from gross income and you have no choice in the matter. You cant say this month ni kunoma sitaki kutoa NSSF. So by my layman understanding NHIF and the rest are taxes.

Shame on you Shame on you This isn't layman but Kuria,Aladwa,Muthama &Duale like thinking.
Tax goes to gvt and you can't utilize it personally. Nssf , nhif are mandatory contributions which you utilize (personally) use when sick and on retirement. Made mandatory to assist you! Civic education is far below in Kenyan society with "educated fools"

NSSF,NHIF = tax, where did that one come from. What next, school fees is tax.
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