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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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VituVingiSana wrote:@wendz @fundaah
I am a shareholder.
No double standards...
1) Employees of ARM should be fired if they are stealing from ARM. They cant be fired by ARM for stealing from GoK. It does not sound right but legally ARM would have a problem with COTU & unions... Unions dont let ARM fire employees even if they steal unless a 'package' is negotiated.
2) Of course, the MD has to know what is happening... BUT the point is being personalized from ARM to MD... The initial question/accusation was ARM was doing it... and it is not...
3) Unlike the MD for ARM (who owns 40%+ of ARM) the minister does not have any ownership of the ministries.
4) The MD can be removed by shareholders for under-performance by the Board &/or shareholders. kibaki never fires corrupt ministers. He appoints them too... Using the logic... shouldnt kibaki resign? (Erm, I think he should have...) So VVS ...you are totally defending this corrupt deal where tghe MD is aware that employees are stealing from the public (don't say Govt... govt doesnt pay taxes )....and next time you say Ruto Raila and Kibaki are corrupt ...think twice....You mean an employer cant fire an employee involved in criminal activity because of Trade Unions...come on VVS .I respect your contributions here but this one... !! dont let me down Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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@fundaah - BS... Who said MD knew about this? Please DO NOT misquote me... 1) ruto, raila & kibaki started the fertilizer subsidy program. I was dead set against it. Subsidies always do harm in the long-run. You can quote me on this... 2) I am certain the MD was not aware of the theft by the employees... Do you have information I do not? 3) I am NOT defending any wrongdoing on ARM or MD's part if they are guilty... I am saying the guilty parties are GoK (for stupid subsidy program), GoK emplyees (via ministries, NCPB, etc) and the few ARM employees who stole... 4) I am categorically saying that ruto & kibaki (& cronies/friends) have benefited from corruption whether through YK92 or other sweetheart deals. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Chaka wrote:This is really pathetic...there are just too many scandals in this country due to the love of money which is the root of all evil.
@VVS ,
If so, why has the ARM MD not come out to set the record straight ? Because the story was first aired last night! He hasn't had time to respond yet. Let's wait and see this evening. Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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Why did the government subsidize imported mbolea and not the local one. Simple, its because thats how the fat cats get to eat, importing the mbolea and selling to gov. Heck, if i was ARM producing the ferts, employing kenyans, paying taxes i would do the same. Those nyefing public money should climb down from their high moral pedestals. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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In the past few hours since the story aired in our media houses a lot of info is already in the public domain and more will become available in electronic and print. Only then, it will become clear whether ARM is clean or not. However, being a shareholder *VVS* does not give you the powers to take us to the era of Jim crow. Please make your contributions which we highly appreciate BUT this systemic & to my opinion rather excessive attacks on other contributors only breeds a deterrence effect.... whatever someone does for a living should not come up in this discussion...... In modern societies people learn to tolerate others even when they do not agree with them just as wazua lets us post articles outside of the investment domain. I rest my case as i switch to the Barcelona vs Stuttgart match. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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mukiha wrote:Chaka wrote:This is really pathetic...there are just too many scandals in this country due to the love of money which is the root of all evil.
@VVS ,
If so, why has the ARM MD not come out to set the record straight ? Because the story was first aired last night! He hasn't had time to respond yet. Let's wait and see this evening. I have it on excellent authority that the MD was in London on a business trip on Monday & Tuesday. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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BGL wrote:
However, being a shareholder *VVS* does not give
1) Jim Crow ni nani? [I live in KENYA...] 2) Why are the idiots who approved the stupid subsidy program going free? I even wrote that the maize subsidy is a get rich quick scam (scheme) for kibaki, ruto & friends... And it was... Why do u think no-one of real importance was fired? Why do u think PNU supported ruto during the censure motion? Wizi... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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I totally agree with VVS the buying of fertilizers from foreign farms and not supporting local firms is perverse. That said i dont think we should let the systemic undermining of local firms, farmers and artisan by the goverment to continue. The buying and importing of goods that can be sourced locally at the same price and higher quality should not be allowed. Who gains when the goverment sources goods from china when they are locally available?? This requires criminal investigations.
I cant comment about the presence of fake cheap fertilizers at the ARM factory without further information. I shall side with VVS and give ARM the benefit of doubt. (My position on Goverment is guilty until proven innocent)
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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Friends, Investors, Wanaraia, Wazalendo: When has our government+controlled firms (since kenyatta) ever come out smelling like roses? Recently we had: - KCB & NBK almost collapsed - KPC (triton. Kenol won a judgment against KPC) - KAA (qatari, onejetone) - Grand Regency sale (no public auction) - Milk - Maize (I publicly derided this scheme. I knew it wud be misused) NEED I SAY MORE? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/9/2010 Posts: 18
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@BLG well said my friend. You need not say more
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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7000 bags found.Certainly that can't be 1 ton and there is no way repackaging would have been done by "mukora" employees without the knowledge of top management. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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Topic closed ...'its our/my time/turn to eat ' says VVS....the most ardent anti-corruption campaigner here VVS is now in it....a shielder and defender of corruption... forget about Kibaki , Raila and Ruto.... Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Well just read the story, they legally acquired the bags rom SS ltd that are one of the firms that do have the tender to buy these bags of fertilizer and sell them. ARM simply bought these from an accredited vendor and were using these to blend mavuno. Its straight forward. What ruto was saying jana on TV was matope...if it can be legally bought in the market, what i do with it after buying should not be your problem.
N besides dont the tea & coffee guys also blend higher quality teas n coffee to supplement or improve their own product?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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Horton blending by changing the packaging....worse than cemetry theft.. Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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Horton wrote:N besides dont the tea & coffee guys also blend higher quality teas n coffee to supplement or improve their own product? ..... not on subsidized tea & coffee ....it's your tax man Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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@Fundaah....this is a scam that our politicians are looking for a scape goat. Kibaki had said earlier that the fertilizer should be given to small scale farmers for FREE....pray, tell.....why is the ministry of agriculture "selling" it then?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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Horton when did kibaki say so..link?...all I can remember was free seeds and affordable fertilsers... and a credit facility for low income farmers http://africanpress.word...rces-to-buy-fertilizers/Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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In 2001, I operated a small Duka in Nakuru. In mid-December, Uchumi realised that they had over-stocked X-mas cards and Offered them at a big discount - sh20 instead of sh150. I went and bought 3 dozen and sold them in my shop at sh50 a piece. Was that unfair? . . . . . In the 1990s when Simeon Nyachae was minister for agriculture, there was a subsidy programme for maize. NCPB bought at sh400 and sold at sh300. Traders bought in the morning, re-packaged from NCPB branded bags and sold back to NCPB in the afternoon! Those with insider connections just got the paper-work signed without moving a single grain!! . . . . Subsidies are a waste of money!! They distort the market and create a simple avenue for theft . . . Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Fundaah wrote:Horton when did kibaki say so..link?...all I can remember was free seeds and affordable fertilsers... and a credit facility for low income farmers
/ http://www.youtube.com/w...feature=player_embedded
somewhere in the middle..where ruto says they will give a number of farmers free fertilizer and seeds also saw a clip on tv on 16th where Kibaki said, free fert+seeds will be provided to farmers.....I guess what they are selling is the 40% discounted ones... I guess we should be asking SS about why they are selling it to ARM and not farmers
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