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Elliott Wave Analysis Of The NSE 20
sl8r
#981 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 5:03:35 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 69
S.Mutaga III wrote:
heri wrote:
S.Mutaga III wrote:
My dream bear market is when I can get KCB, BAT and Safaricom at rock bottom prices. These are my dream stocks...sadly, they arent coming down to my expectations. Throw in Jubilee and you have a killer portfolio.


Safaricom is what i have been eyeing. But now with mnandii saying that safcom might go below 10, am wondering what price to get in

If these four counters reach prices that reflect the exact PE levels these companies traded during the end of the bear market in 2011, I will invest half my networth in them. They say, when it rains gold, use the biggest bucket.


Exactly!!! agreed!!!! Applause Applause Applause and with a close of 3991 we are getting there pretty quickly
hisah
#982 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 5:05:18 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
4000 handle breaks down. NSE20 closes at 3,991. The index is 27.42% down since topping out at 5499. The index slide is large, but the train crash has been a slow puncture!
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
hisah
#983 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 5:18:18 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
@mnandii, spt, sparkly


The week of Aug 23rd has an interesting vol spike similar in appearance to the one on Oct 2014 that forced the index to rally to new highs. But the recent one has weakness behind it. If the index has a massive rally towards the 2015 highs, I'd look to fade that rally as I expect 2016 the sky to come down! One last santa rally and then it gets cold next year.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
lochaz-index
#984 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 5:41:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
mnandii wrote:
We said it a long time back to expect financial difficulties and distress. The NSE 20 share Index has moved down in wave 1 (the first wave in a 5 wave series) and already the government is grappling with financial issues. Gosh, Socionomics is quite interesting. smile

Salaries crisis as counties, teachers await delayed cash



Quote:
Thousands of workers are yet to receive their September salaries as the government grapples with a cash crisis, which has raised tough questions about the state of fiscal management at the Treasury.

All 47 counties have been affected by the problem, which has also spread to several key institutions and programmes which have been starved of cash due to delays in disbursement of funds from the Treasury.


KRA has fallen short of its tax collection targets:

Quote:
The crisis was the subject of a meeting between Treasury PS Kamau Thugge and officials of the Kenya Revenue Authority, which has fallen short of its tax collection targets in the first quarter.


When the EURO bond was floated, we stated amidst strong opposition that the proceeds from the bond would NOT bring down interest rates. The fundamentalists had a field convincing us to expect manageable interest rate environment. Well, things are going haywire now.

Quote:
Low revenue collection, high interest rates which have depressed borrowing and diminished economic activity and an unfavourable exchange rate have been cited as the reasons the Treasury has run low on finances.



Quote:
MPs' SALARIES DELAYED

The Sunday Nation also confirmed that even Members of Parliament and parliamentary staff were affected as their September salaries were delayed.


link

As the Index probes below 3000 level soon expect even worse things. For one the conflict between the government and the opposition will intensify and will likely lead to violence. Some counties will consider seceding. Expect conflict between and amongst the religious groupings.

As companies issue profit warnings expect unemployment to rise.


Particularly irksome is the fact that we have gone back to dancing to the tunes of IMF/WB. The previous government sought to undo our dependence on them but it only took three short years to negate the gains and we are back to square one.

Structural adjustments aka retrenchments are back with a bang. Expect a sideways economy for the foreseeable future as long as those international shylocks continue to call the shots.




The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
sparkly
#985 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 5:41:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
hisah wrote:
@mnandii, spt, sparkly


The week of Aug 23rd has an interesting vol spike similar in appearance to the one on Oct 2014 that forced the index to rally to new highs. But the recent one has weakness behind it. If the index has a massive rally towards the 2015 highs, I'd look to fade that rally as I expect 2016 the sky to come down! One last santa rally and then it gets cold next year.


I agree, the Santa Claus rally cannot be sustained but once the current weakness ends, we will see the mother of all rallies.
Life is short. Live passionately.
lochaz-index
#986 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 5:56:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mnandii wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
cnn wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Why are folks trying to 'time the market' ... Warren Buffett doesn't believe in timing the market as much as buying value & he has done very well. Timing the market is always attractive when looked at in hindsight.

He is good at what he knows best.We can't all be Warren Buffetts.One has to know what they are in the market for and try find their own best way in navigating it, to achieve their end.

WB advises us lesser mortals not to bother with timing the market. If WB with all his knowledge and market savvy (gathered over 70 years) cannot time the market, how can we? Food for thought.


I like the way he says it doesn't matter whether it's an election year or any other funny signs.
I'm being guided by my valuations.... But it's tempting to time, won't play that game this time round

Yes. WB looks at it from very interesting (& sensible) perspectives.
1) Don't just buy shares, buy a piece of the company i.e. would you buy the entire company at this price? If yes, buy. If no, then do not.
2) Buy shares in a company if you don't mind owning the shares if the market shuts down for 10 years. Even though I hope KK is taken over, I do not mind buying KK at 9/- to hold for the next 10 years.
3) He doesn't look for turnarounds. He buys management i.e. if he doesn't trust the management, he doesn't buy. He doesn't want to try to change the management. He wants a good and trustworthy management. Today, that criterion has eliminated HAFR, OCH, NBK, KQ, Sameer, Eveready, etc from my list.
4) Timing doesn't work for most people. We never get in at the lowest price nor get out at the highest price. Just get in when there's a discount. Socks or stocks are best bought at a discount. He isn't a seller so I don't know what he says about bailing out. Recently, he sold Tesco as well as shares in some oil firms.


Warren Buffet is the lucky star of a strong bull market in the USA since the 1982 low in the DOW. The prediction for that bull market is found in the 'Elliott Wave Principle: Key To Market Behaviour'. The guy is going to get hurt in the Bear that has started. Simply put, if you are long a market that is trending up, you win. Notice that Warren Buffet's holdings have been long term ( years on the long side). In a strong bull market the majority of stocks rise, so if you hold long enough you win. This is where the crazy idea of buying for the long term comes from.

Even people who bought Safaricom during the IPO and did not sell can be considered savvy investors taken from this perspective. Safcom has started a bear market (I discuss this in a post below). There are two scenarios for those who will hold through the bear. Either they get out at the depths of the bear and lose or they hold for years ahead and they both lose and win simultaneously. They lose because they could Take Profit now, enjoy the proceeds and use some of it to re-enter the market at a bottom. They win because Safcom is expected to rise multiple times the present value. This is where timing is of the essence i.e when do you buy, when do you sell. Elliott Wave Principle is valuable as a timing tool.

I am long I&M, WTK, KK & KenRe. Give me specifics. Dates & prices. If you are on the money, then I might start believing you. And throw some business your way.


@VVS bro, this is quite harsh. I was hoping I could at least convince you to consider a different and wonderful approach to looking at the markets but ....

Sad

@mnandii - Unlike many, I am offering a chance for you to make real money. If you give me specifics on those 4 counters and I see you are right... I will get on board. And I am not looking for freebies. If your initial advice works, I am willing to pay for performance.

I have done relatively well based on the Buy & Hold [not to be done blindly] using WB's advice/methods. I have learnt from him [& experience] that one should not invest when shady chaps run the firm no matter how good/cheap it looks e.g. Olympia, Sameer, KQ, etc. That includes most GoK controlled firms. My only GoK holding is KenRe & a few 'old' KPLC.

WB likes cash-rich firms [or firms that use debt very effectively] e.g.
- Unga which has reduced its Debt-Equity over time even with the recent Ennsvalley purchase. Most of the debt finances current assets eg inventory.
- KK (post-Segman) which has aggressively reduced naked $ debt & KES loans. Most of the debt finances current assets eg inventory.
- Williamson which has a lot of cash & paid 40/- as a dividend last year.
- Jubilee [effective use of float & why I like KenRe even though it's GoK controlled]
- Many banks. I picked I&M coz it is cheap on a PER basis, is conservative (low NPLs) & PAT growth is at least +15%.

[The above are HISTORIC purchases at lower prices except KK and some I&M. I was going to bail out of KK but stayed in as I saw progress by Ohana. Plus Ohana hinted at the AGM that interest has been shown in KK's assets by foreign buyers.]

I am scared of KenGen [huge debt load but most assets can't be easily sold to generate cash], KQ and EAPCC.
ARM has made effective use of debt BUT I will not buy ARM at these prices coz of USD debt & the high Debt:Equity ratio.
No to NBK with fake low levels of NPLs, and it has effectively breached CBK Capital Ratios. Add GoK control.

If you choose to take up the challenge, let's do this in a new thread topic so we can stick to the 4 stocks [KK, KenRe, I&M & WTK] and are easier to keep track of. Pay for performance!


Putting your money where your mouth is. I like.

Warren Buffet also sells holdings in companies that have matured that is, they have very little room for growth(especially organic) and there is no substantial upside to their values.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#987 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2015 11:21:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,221
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
sparkly wrote:
hisah wrote:
@mnandii, spt, sparkly


The week of Aug 23rd has an interesting vol spike similar in appearance to the one on Oct 2014 that forced the index to rally to new highs. But the recent one has weakness behind it. If the index has a massive rally towards the 2015 highs, I'd look to fade that rally as I expect 2016 the sky to come down! One last santa rally and then it gets cold next year.


I agree, the Santa Claus rally cannot be sustained but once the current weakness ends, we will see the mother of all rallies.

Nice chart @Hisah. I see we are back up, thanks to the poor Sept NFP numbers. Still waiting for that surprise FED rate hike. Like Jesus, it will come like a thiefsmile The fall will be a sight to behold!
@SufficientlyP
Aguytrying
#988 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 2:37:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
sparkly wrote:
hisah wrote:
@mnandii, spt, sparkly


The week of Aug 23rd has an interesting vol spike similar in appearance to the one on Oct 2014 that forced the index to rally to new highs. But the recent one has weakness behind it. If the index has a massive rally towards the 2015 highs, I'd look to fade that rally as I expect 2016 the sky to come down! One last santa rally and then it gets cold next year.


I agree, the Santa Claus rally cannot be sustained but once the current weakness ends, we will see the mother of all rallies.

Nice chart @Hisah. I see we are back up, thanks to the poor Sept NFP numbers. Still waiting for that surprise FED rate hike. Like Jesus, it will come like a thiefsmile The fall will be a sight to behold!


Nowadays chartists aka cartoons in the last bear are taken very seriously. Shows the gravity of the current situation. Like Muthawamunene I'm waiting for the big guns to fall and swoop
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
hisah
#989 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:46:24 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Tech/cartoon readings
I wonder if wazuans understand that NSE20 break below 4080 and 4000 handle is really significant! All that 2014 massive volume in numerous counters has erased most gains from 2012! Oversize distribution.

4000 - 4100 support zone is very significant since the long term trendline from the GFC low rebound at 2360 was clustered there. Breaking such a long term support trendline in the cartoon world is an ugly event that warns on pending further downside! The 2yr trendline broke down then the 4yr trendline broke down and now the 7yr trendline has broken down! The bears are getting muscular forcing through these breaks in just 8 months! @SPT, mnandii this is why I referenced "the trouble with the euro chart in forex" when NSE20 broke down the 4yr support trendline in a similar fashion.

4000 strong support is now turning into a resistance (selling) zone for the bulls. Bulls need to put up a one heck of a fight to maintain this level as bullish support since selling is overpowering buying hands down.

Fundies reading
I hope the market capitulates soon so that we can start forming a floor. This slow motion leakage is not helping in testing for a floor layer before the base forms once the bears are full and go into hibernation. But before we base out treasury needs to get its head back on! Absolute chaos in the money market, which has slammed instant brakes on the econ! A time is coming when treasury will be forced into a stimulus spree; inflation be damned! It's easier to deal with inflation than deflation.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
mnandii
#990 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:59:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
hisah wrote:
Tech/cartoon readings
I wonder if wazuans understand that NSE20 break below 4080 and 4000 handle is really significant! All that 2014 massive volume in numerous counters has erased most gains from 2012! Oversize distribution.

4000 - 4100 support zone is very significant since the long term trendline from the GFC low rebound at 2360 was clustered there. Breaking such a long term support trendline in the cartoon world is an ugly event that warns on pending further downside! The 2yr trendline broke down then the 4yr trendline broke down and now the 7yr trendline has broken down! The bears are getting muscular forcing through these breaks in just 8 months! @SPT, mnandii this is why I referenced "the trouble with the euro chart in forex" when NSE20 broke down the 4yr support trendline in a similar fashion.

4000 strong support is now turning into a resistance (selling) zone for the bulls. Bulls need to put up a one heck of a fight to maintain this level as bullish support since selling is overpowering buying hands down.

Fundies reading
I hope the market capitulates soon so that we can start forming a floor. This slow motion leakage is not helping in testing for a floor layer before the base forms once the bears are full and go into hibernation. But before we base out treasury needs to get its head back on! Absolute chaos in the money market, which has slammed instant brakes on the econ! A time is coming when treasury will be forced into a stimulus spree; inflation be damned! It's easier to deal with inflation than deflation.


Things are ugly this early! I wonder how the gov will cope once NSE 20 Share Index starts probing sub-3000 levels. These are the times when the president wishes he was not the president.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#991 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:35:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,221
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
mnandii wrote:
hisah wrote:
Tech/cartoon readings
I wonder if wazuans understand that NSE20 break below 4080 and 4000 handle is really significant! All that 2014 massive volume in numerous counters has erased most gains from 2012! Oversize distribution.

4000 - 4100 support zone is very significant since the long term trendline from the GFC low rebound at 2360 was clustered there. Breaking such a long term support trendline in the cartoon world is an ugly event that warns on pending further downside! The 2yr trendline broke down then the 4yr trendline broke down and now the 7yr trendline has broken down! The bears are getting muscular forcing through these breaks in just 8 months! @SPT, mnandii this is why I referenced "the trouble with the euro chart in forex" when NSE20 broke down the 4yr support trendline in a similar fashion.

4000 strong support is now turning into a resistance (selling) zone for the bulls. Bulls need to put up a one heck of a fight to maintain this level as bullish support since selling is overpowering buying hands down.

Fundies reading
I hope the market capitulates soon so that we can start forming a floor. This slow motion leakage is not helping in testing for a floor layer before the base forms once the bears are full and go into hibernation. But before we base out treasury needs to get its head back on! Absolute chaos in the money market, which has slammed instant brakes on the econ! A time is coming when treasury will be forced into a stimulus spree; inflation be damned! It's easier to deal with inflation than deflation.


Things are ugly this early! I wonder how the gov will cope once NSE 20 Share Index starts probing sub-3000 levels. These are the times when the president wishes he was not the president.

True guys, the breakdown of the 7 year trendline is VERY SIGNIFICANT!!(Trouble with the Euro chart comes to mind)
Capitulation will happen on completion of the current retracement in the major markets. This is the time you wish you could short the indices i.e NSE 20.
@SufficientlyP
kasibitta
#992 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:23:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/7/2014
Posts: 155
Too much happening too fast. Where to now?

mnandii
#993 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:39:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
mnandii wrote:
hisah wrote:
Tech/cartoon readings
I wonder if wazuans understand that NSE20 break below 4080 and 4000 handle is really significant! All that 2014 massive volume in numerous counters has erased most gains from 2012! Oversize distribution.

4000 - 4100 support zone is very significant since the long term trendline from the GFC low rebound at 2360 was clustered there. Breaking such a long term support trendline in the cartoon world is an ugly event that warns on pending further downside! The 2yr trendline broke down then the 4yr trendline broke down and now the 7yr trendline has broken down! The bears are getting muscular forcing through these breaks in just 8 months! @SPT, mnandii this is why I referenced "the trouble with the euro chart in forex" when NSE20 broke down the 4yr support trendline in a similar fashion.

4000 strong support is now turning into a resistance (selling) zone for the bulls. Bulls need to put up a one heck of a fight to maintain this level as bullish support since selling is overpowering buying hands down.

Fundies reading
I hope the market capitulates soon so that we can start forming a floor. This slow motion leakage is not helping in testing for a floor layer before the base forms once the bears are full and go into hibernation. But before we base out treasury needs to get its head back on! Absolute chaos in the money market, which has slammed instant brakes on the econ! A time is coming when treasury will be forced into a stimulus spree; inflation be damned! It's easier to deal with inflation than deflation.


Things are ugly this early! I wonder how the gov will cope once NSE 20 Share Index starts probing sub-3000 levels. These are the times when the president wishes he was not the president.

True guys, the breakdown of the 7 year trendline is VERY SIGNIFICANT!!(Trouble with the Euro chart comes to mind)
Capitulation will happen on completion of the current retracement in the major markets. This is the time you wish you could short the indices i.e NSE 20.


I was really looking forward to derivatives trading but our people are quite useless in terms of implementing plans. I wish there was a way to sack some of these non-performing actors in the NSE, CDSE, CMA
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#994 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:57:56 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
mnandii wrote:
USDKES

We posted this chart of USDKES back when the pair was rising above 100 level and stated clearly that we don't expect the 106.80 level to be violated.



Well, so far the level has maintained. Wave 2 peaked at 106.70. Shown below:



While it is still early to declare a tradeable top, action in shorter Time Frames (15 min) show impulsive drop which is consistent with expectation once a corrective wave completes. I'll post a short term price chart later. My expectation now is for the pair to continue falling toward 100/- and slightly below before it effects a corrective rise below 106.70.

In this case we only used one basic Elliott wave Rule as depicted below for a bull market:



Image credit: Elliott Wave International.




$KES

Expecting the strengthening of the KES to continue. Should find a temporary bottom at 100 or slightly below.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
Spikes
#995 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:27:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
NSE20 index has received mammoth support from Kengen thanks to material announcement of full year profit. It will be likely below 4000 if the telco will shed points today. If the Safcom gains then above 4000 is most likely. Ceteras Paribus .
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
lochaz-index
#996 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:29:35 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
mnandii wrote:
hisah wrote:
Tech/cartoon readings
I wonder if wazuans understand that NSE20 break below 4080 and 4000 handle is really significant! All that 2014 massive volume in numerous counters has erased most gains from 2012! Oversize distribution.

4000 - 4100 support zone is very significant since the long term trendline from the GFC low rebound at 2360 was clustered there. Breaking such a long term support trendline in the cartoon world is an ugly event that warns on pending further downside! The 2yr trendline broke down then the 4yr trendline broke down and now the 7yr trendline has broken down! The bears are getting muscular forcing through these breaks in just 8 months! @SPT, mnandii this is why I referenced "the trouble with the euro chart in forex" when NSE20 broke down the 4yr support trendline in a similar fashion.

4000 strong support is now turning into a resistance (selling) zone for the bulls. Bulls need to put up a one heck of a fight to maintain this level as bullish support since selling is overpowering buying hands down.

Fundies reading
I hope the market capitulates soon so that we can start forming a floor. This slow motion leakage is not helping in testing for a floor layer before the base forms once the bears are full and go into hibernation. But before we base out treasury needs to get its head back on! Absolute chaos in the money market, which has slammed instant brakes on the econ! A time is coming when treasury will be forced into a stimulus spree; inflation be damned! It's easier to deal with inflation than deflation.


Things are ugly this early! I wonder how the gov will cope once NSE 20 Share Index starts probing sub-3000 levels. These are the times when the president wishes he was not the president.


I think they may have already turned on the spigots. Inflation, Tbill, interbank and exchange rates all seem to suggest something is amiss.

Getting out of a debt trap has no other solution given the macro economic conditions. Print your way out of a deflation.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
hisah
#997 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:22:10 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Those holding banks.... sit tight...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
VituVingiSana
#998 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:32:52 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,124
Location: Nairobi
Imperial Bank down. This is a significantly large mid-tier bank. http://www.businessdaily...92/-/adljm1/-/index.html
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
cnn
#999 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:58:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,619
hisah wrote:
Those holding banks.... sit tight...

They are all being roasted in the NSE right now.
mnandii
#1000 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2015 2:56:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
@VVS

Thanks for the challenge. It is not feasible however to do Elliott Wave analysis on the four counters you mention (KK, WTK, Kenya Re and I $ M Bank).

If you look at their charts they are nowhere near any Elliott Wave patterns. The explanation for this is simple.

Elliott Waves track human psychology. As such it works best where there is wide public participation e.g in the NSE 20 Share Index, $KES and Safaricom. These three are showing very good Elliott Patterns and thus the reason why I track them. In markets such as the USA individual stocks show clear Elliott Wave patterns e.g Apple stock below:



Image Courtesy Elliott Wave International


In the case of individual stocks in Kenya (other than Safaricom), value investing may work (obviously it has worked so far for you) upto a degree. Am saying this because in a deflationary environment (which I feel we have entered) almost all things lose value. A company may be good and with excellent management but if the people who are expected to drive up its share price are lacking in means then it becomes a matter of faith/hope to expect any worthwhile upside in the stock.

Please note that my earlier opinion was not meant to disparage your view of the market.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
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