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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2014 Posts: 1,652
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 Hutia Mundu!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:pluto is a bit too cold bwana unless it has europa like behaviors. It should be -248 (last time i checked) We don't know the origin of life,the conditions necessary for life or how radically different the life forms(if any) may be. The universe is a big place. agreed! we don't even have a complete definition on what "life" is. think about it - the universe does not have 1 of anything. We have multiple planets, multiple solar systems, we have multiple of X and even the string theorists believe we have multiple universes - so it follows that we should (ideally) have 1 single exhibition of life. My theory has always been - we know only one type of life. A carbon based life possible made possible by liquid water thriving on the goldilocks zone of our solar system. What is life really? rather than the most complex manifestation of chemistry. If there could be some form of complex replicating molecule similar to DNA/RNA made primarily out of nitrogen (instead of carbon) that would thrive in seas of liquid nitrogen - why not consider that 'life'? But I guess then we could have life on mercury - right... made out of liquid zinc or lead! or even some other thing surviving in the green house gas affected planet that is venus. So... yeah - you are right... there could be "life" but not our type of "life" I agree. There could be beings of pure energy. That's a stretch but energy and matter are 2 sides of the same coin. So yeah... I guess. The universe is a big place.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:
The universe is a big place.
Not in this universe - maybe in another one. The physics that we know about and the laws that hold it together would not apply. why? we have 6 versions of quarks, gluons, electrons, muons, tau particles, have leptons (electron neutrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos) all made of energy and last of all have photons made of mass. have the higgs boson equivalent as well - when done creating what is know as the standard model of particle physics by swapping matter for energy and energy for matter. So in that universe Mass would be moving at speeds of C and energy would not! In A universe where the fabric of time and space is wrapped by energy and not mass - THAT IS NOT THIS UNIVERSE! a universe that whatever we call the photon equivalent made all of mass has no concept of time. When done with that we would then create 'atoms' equivalent from these particles and later a whole periodic table equivalent. then create interactions between these 'atoms' and create molecules and extrapolate that forward into complex molecules that replicate themselves AND THEN have complex interactions between these items and when done - we would have beings of light.... if that's too complex... I suggest we stick to holograms. Or maybe I am wrong and I am doing what humans do best - extrapolate their experiences into other dimensions and universes we know nothing about. kinda reminds me of Christiaan Huygens and his 'celestial worlds discovered' publication who using deductive reasoning concluded that Jupiter had hemp! How... he looked at the planet and it had an atmosphere and what looked like oceans. he figured we live in a world with oceans and atmospheres. a creature on Jupiter would need to get around just like us and we have boats - so they must have boats. We have sails on our boats and thus they must have sails as well. It follows taht this sails must be made out of a raw material and ours is hemp... he reckoned that creatures of jupiter must grow hemp to faciliate their moving around. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:
The universe is a big place.
Not in this universe - maybe in another one. The physics that we know about and the laws that hold it together would not apply. why? we have 6 versions of quarks, gluons, electrons, muons, tau particles, have leptons (electron neutrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos) all made of energy and last of all have photons made of mass. have the higgs boson equivalent as well - when done creating what is know as the standard model of particle physics by swapping matter for energy and energy for matter. So in that universe Mass would be moving at speeds of C and energy would not! In A universe where the fabric of time and space is wrapped by energy and not mass - THAT IS NOT THIS UNIVERSE! a universe that whatever we call the photon equivalent made all of mass has no concept of time. When done with that we would then create 'atoms' equivalent from these particles and later a whole periodic table equivalent. then create interactions between these 'atoms' and create molecules and extrapolate that forward into complex molecules that replicate themselves AND THEN have complex interactions between these items and when done - we would have beings of light.... if that's too complex... I suggest we stick to holograms. Or maybe I am wrong and I am doing what humans do best - extrapolate their experiences into other dimensions and universes we know nothing about. kinda reminds me of Christiaan Huygens and his 'celestial worlds discovered' publication who using deductive reasoning concluded that Jupiter had hemp! How... he looked at the planet and it had an atmosphere and what looked like oceans. he figured we live in a world with oceans and atmospheres. a creature on Jupiter would need to get around just like us and we have boats - so they must have boats. We have sails on our boats and thus they must have sails as well. It follows taht this sails must be made out of a raw material and ours is hemp... he reckoned that creatures of jupiter must grow hemp to faciliate their moving around. Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:
The universe is a big place.
Not in this universe - maybe in another one. The physics that we know about and the laws that hold it together would not apply. why? we have 6 versions of quarks, gluons, electrons, muons, tau particles, have leptons (electron neutrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos) all made of energy and last of all have photons made of mass. have the higgs boson equivalent as well - when done creating what is know as the standard model of particle physics by swapping matter for energy and energy for matter. So in that universe Mass would be moving at speeds of C and energy would not! In A universe where the fabric of time and space is wrapped by energy and not mass - THAT IS NOT THIS UNIVERSE! a universe that whatever we call the photon equivalent made all of mass has no concept of time. When done with that we would then create 'atoms' equivalent from these particles and later a whole periodic table equivalent. then create interactions between these 'atoms' and create molecules and extrapolate that forward into complex molecules that replicate themselves AND THEN have complex interactions between these items and when done - we would have beings of light.... if that's too complex... I suggest we stick to holograms. Or maybe I am wrong and I am doing what humans do best - extrapolate their experiences into other dimensions and universes we know nothing about. kinda reminds me of Christiaan Huygens and his 'celestial worlds discovered' publication who using deductive reasoning concluded that Jupiter had hemp! How... he looked at the planet and it had an atmosphere and what looked like oceans. he figured we live in a world with oceans and atmospheres. a creature on Jupiter would need to get around just like us and we have boats - so they must have boats. We have sails on our boats and thus they must have sails as well. It follows taht this sails must be made out of a raw material and ours is hemp... he reckoned that creatures of jupiter must grow hemp to faciliate their moving around. @masukuma, kindly restate your argument in formal logic so that I may understand the gist of your argument.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:[quote=masukuma]
Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe. there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns! the construct of space and time is a known known. just because we don't understand all aspects of energy does not imply that don't understand everything about energy - ok? what is known is that in this universe we have mass doing all the wrapping of space and thus any kind of being would ideally need to be matter based. I don't think we can have energy beings in this universe not as we understand energy and not as we understand the universe. @tycho - it was just a long winding mumbling text trying to reconstruct a universe with beings of energy instead of mass. we would ideally have to have the mass as we know it replaced by energy and behaving in exactly the same way mass behaves in this universe. mass in that universe would ideally need to behave in the same way energy behaves in our universe. That universe would have black holes of really compact energy - that would stop mass from escaping. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:[quote=masukuma]
Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe. there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns! the construct of space and time is a known known. just because we don't understand all aspects of energy does not imply that don't understand everything about energy - ok? what is known is that in this universe we have mass doing all the wrapping of space and thus any kind of being would ideally need to be matter based. I don't think we can have energy beings in this universe not as we understand energy and not as we understand the universe. @tycho - it was just a long winding mumbling text trying to reconstruct a universe with beings of energy instead of mass. we would ideally have to have the mass as we know it replaced by energy and behaving in exactly the same way mass behaves in this universe. mass in that universe would ideally need to behave in the same way energy behaves in our universe. That universe would have black holes of really compact energy - that would stop mass from escaping. The Standard model of cosmology claims that ordinary matter(the stuff we're made of) is 4.9% of the universe,dark matter is 26.8% of the universe and dark energy is 68.3% of the universe. We don't know what energy is and we don't know how life came about. How is that reshaping the universe?It's a known known that we know very little about the universe. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:[quote=masukuma]
Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe. there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns! the construct of space and time is a known known. just because we don't understand all aspects of energy does not imply that don't understand everything about energy - ok? what is known is that in this universe we have mass doing all the wrapping of space and thus any kind of being would ideally need to be matter based. I don't think we can have energy beings in this universe not as we understand energy and not as we understand the universe. @tycho - it was just a long winding mumbling text trying to reconstruct a universe with beings of energy instead of mass. we would ideally have to have the mass as we know it replaced by energy and behaving in exactly the same way mass behaves in this universe. mass in that universe would ideally need to behave in the same way energy behaves in our universe. That universe would have black holes of really compact energy - that would stop mass from escaping. The Standard model of cosmology claims that ordinary matter(the stuff we're made of) is 4.9% of the universe,dark matter is 26.8% of the universe and dark energy is 68.3% of the universe. We don't know what energy is and we don't know how life came about. How is that reshaping the universe?It's a known known that we know very little about the universe. you need to understand something about the 'dark' energy/matter henceforth referred to as 'dark blah'....! ok... they exhibit the same properties as the 'light' blahs except that they don't reflect light - so we can tell they are there by their effects on the 'light' blahs but not by seeing them. Kinda like when you are overtaking based on a car that is overtaking before you. You see how the car is behaving and you act it's not that u have seen the road or the incoming or lack there of of a vehicle. Please remember that 'dark' is a placeholder. We know something about them - it's only that we cannot 'see' them. string theorists also have something more to say about them - they could be effects of other universes on ours - kinda like what they think blackholes would be. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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but it's true we know very little about our universe.... we have less than 500 years of proper scientific observations and models on the same - but that is somehow not to be misconstrued to mean that there are 'energy beings' - we know better than that! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:
you need to understand something about the 'dark' energy/matter henceforth referred to as 'dark blah'....! ok... they exhibit the same properties as the 'light' blahs except that they don't reflect light - so we can tell they are there by their effects on the 'light' blahs but not by seeing them. Kinda like when you are overtaking based on a car that is overtaking before you. You see how the car is behaving and you act it's not that u have seen the road or the incoming or lack there of of a vehicle. Please remember that 'dark' is a placeholder. We know something about them - it's only that we cannot 'see' them.
Dark Energy, Dark MatterNASA wrote:
What Is Dark Energy?
More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery.
...
What Is Dark Matter?
We are much more certain what dark matter is not than we are what it is.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:but it's true we know very little about our universe.... we have less than 500 years of proper scientific observations and models on the same - but that is somehow not to be misconstrued to mean that there are 'energy beings' - we know better than that! 'We' also know better than to assume that carbon based life forms(ordinary stuff) are the only life forms in this big universe!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:but it's true we know very little about our universe.... we have less than 500 years of proper scientific observations and models on the same - but that is somehow not to be misconstrued to mean that there are 'energy beings' - we know better than that! 'We' also know better than to assume that carbon based life forms(ordinary stuff) are the only life forms in this big universe! I alluded to this sometime back with a random example of nitrogen - we could have multiple manifestations of 'life'. Life that would label what we consider the goldilocks zone of solar systems hostile. That is not out of my realm of accepting as a possibility - nitrogen is matter. We could have silicon based life forms... why not? the chemical properties of carbon are similar to those of Silicon, germanium, tin, and lead! So I can see conditions that complex molecules with say germanium (regardless of it's rarity) would form the basis of life. OK, What is really far strung is beings of energy! The reason we labled the 'dark' energy to be energy is because it behaves like energy. The reason we labeled dark matter that way is because it has properties of matter. your argument of energy beings is relatable to saying - we have a container here... we don't know what is in it... we can shake it, we can tell the size and shape of it - but we don't know anything about it BUT IT COULD BE USED TO MAKE a language similar to the english language ( voted by quora as the most complex human invention)! Why? I don't know and so don't you! We can tell by the sound it makes, it's size that it's not in the list of things that would create 'english like languages' could we have creatures/beings made of dark matter - YEAH! can we have creatures made of anti-matter YEAH! can we have creatures made of dark energy... nope! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:but it's true we know very little about our universe.... we have less than 500 years of proper scientific observations and models on the same - but that is somehow not to be misconstrued to mean that there are 'energy beings' - we know better than that! 'We' also know better than to assume that carbon based life forms(ordinary stuff) are the only life forms in this big universe! I alluded to this sometime back with a random example of nitrogen - we could have multiple manifestations of 'life'. Life that would label what we consider the goldilocks zone of solar systems hostile. That is not out of my realm of accepting as a possibility - nitrogen is matter. We could have silicon based life forms... why not? the chemical properties of carbon are similar to those of Silicon, germanium, tin, and lead! So I can see conditions that complex molecules with say germanium (regardless of it's rarity) would form the basis of life. OK, What is really far strung is beings of energy! The reason we labled the 'dark' energy to be energy is because it behaves like energy. The reason we labeled dark matter that way is because it has properties of matter. your argument of energy beings is relatable to saying - we have a container here... we don't know what is in it... we can shake it, we can tell the size and shape of it - but we don't know anything about it BUT IT COULD BE USED TO MAKE a language similar to the english language ( voted by quora as the most complex human invention)! Why? I don't know and so don't you! We can tell by the sound it makes, it's size that it's not in the list of things that would create 'english like languages' could we have creatures/beings made of dark matter - YEAH! can we have creatures made of anti-matter YEAH! can we have creatures made of dark energy... nope! Your argument is that life can't exist beyond the little we know about the vast and mysterious universe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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So in what form of life is God? Or the force that placed the universe at it's current location. Can't be by chance that objects go round an object in such an organized manner! i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:
Your argument is that life can't exist beyond the little we know about the vast and mysterious universe.
OK... beings of energy we have!!!  All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:
Your argument is that life can't exist beyond the little we know about the vast and mysterious universe.
OK... beings of energy we have!!! Science
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:
Your argument is that life can't exist beyond the little we know about the vast and mysterious universe.
OK... beings of energy we have!!! Science yap! Science not guesswork. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:masukuma wrote:¿ wrote:
Your argument is that life can't exist beyond the little we know about the vast and mysterious universe.
OK... beings of energy we have!!! Science yap! Science not guesswork. Yes. The science of guesswork. "Kujaza foolscap sio kupita mtihani."
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2010 Posts: 495 Location: Nairobi
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Add more confusion to the argument: There Is Growing Evidence that Our Universe Is a Giant HologramQuote:If a friend told you that we were all living in a giant hologram, you’d probably tell him to lay off the kush. But incredibly, physicists across the world are thinking the same thing: That what we perceive to be a three-dimensional universe might just be the image of a two-dimensional one, projected across a massive cosmic horizon.
Yes, it sounds more than a little insane. The 3D nature of our world is as fundamental to our sense of reality as the fact that time runs forward. And yet some researchers believe that contradictions between Einstein’s theory of relativity and quantum mechanics might be reconciled if every three-dimensional object we know and cherish is a projection of tiny, subatomic bytes of information stored in a two-dimensional Flatland.
“If this is true, it’s a really important insight,” Daniel Grumiller, a theoretical physicist at the Vienna University of Technology, told me over the phone. Grumiller, along with physicists Max Riegler, Arjun Bagchi and Rudranil Basu, recently published the very first study offering evidence that the so-called “holographic principle”—that certain 3D spaces can be mathematically reduced to 2D projections—might describe our universe. Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@masukuma, it's not only possible to have a being comprising of energy alone, but such a being exists. Apparently, this universe allows for such beings.
Secondly, I'd like to remind 'us' the limits of science. When we say 'science' we mean a method of knowing operating within a paradigm or a method of knowing working to create a paradigm or changing a paradigm. Paradigms are social and philosophical creations and apparently, they have their own psychologies. In our present discussion we need to bear this in mind.
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