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Kengen HY 2015 results PAT up 400%
enyands
#71 Posted : Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:02:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
murchr wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr;
Exported power to Rwanda is short term and a temporary measure.Rwanda is aggressively building gas power plants from methane gas in Lake Kivu.
Electric train is a pipe dream like Konza;you will not see it in your lifetime.
Industrial Parks for who;investors are running away because of bureaucracy,corruption in terms of kickbacks from politicians and ruling elite not capacity to supply the needed power.
Our problem now is not generation capacity but weak distribution.
Our electricity is expensive because of the numerous unnecessary charges on your electricity power bill.
Lamu/Lappset is slowly grinding to a halt;twas an over ambitious project with our weak finance.
Rural electrification the consumption is negligible;mostly for lighting and some of the rural folks are going solar.


By the time Rwanda completes its plant, that power will already be taken up by some leather factory. I will not argue about things I may know and you may not know but i will ask you to think about this. WHY IS EVERYONE CONNECTED IN SOME WAY TO GOVERNMENT NOW GETTING INVOLVED IN SOME POWER COMPANY?



The more the oversupply of stima the less the demand and the cheaper the stima hence the happier the mwananchi .I am mwananchi and I'll be happy to pay less..
Ericsson
#72 Posted : Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:57:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,808
Location: NAIROBI
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#73 Posted : Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:59:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,808
Location: NAIROBI
@enyands
You are in dreamland.
The more the oversupply the more expensive it gets because of paying for idle capacity.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Cde Monomotapa
#74 Posted : Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:36:37 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
@enyands PPAs bind the price. @murchr are you refn: to PPPs? @Ericsson true, depending on the prevailing generation mix.
VituVingiSana
#75 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 12:28:21 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.

This is a point many, many people do not understand including folks appointed to the ERC. The PPAs have minimum off-take agreements so those thermal plants may not be 'producing' but KPLC (aka consumers) still pay for the plants 'waiting' to produce. The same applies to wind or hydro.

Solar and Wind are variable sources i.e. they do not provide consistent power consistently therefore there is need for thermal plants to even out the power production. Keeping these thermal plants on stand-by costs money passed on to consumers.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#76 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:45:33 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.

This is a point many, many people do not understand including folks appointed to the ERC. The PPAs have minimum off-take agreements so those thermal plants may not be 'producing' but KPLC (aka consumers) still pay for the plants 'waiting' to produce. The same applies to wind or hydro.

Solar and Wind are variable sources i.e. they do not provide consistent power consistently therefore there is need for thermal plants to even out the power production. Keeping these thermal plants on stand-by costs money passed on to consumers.


Are you saying that KPLC pays for power not supplied?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
VituVingiSana
#77 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 4:00:53 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.

This is a point many, many people do not understand including folks appointed to the ERC. The PPAs have minimum off-take agreements so those thermal plants may not be 'producing' but KPLC (aka consumers) still pay for the plants 'waiting' to produce. The same applies to wind or hydro.

Solar and Wind are variable sources i.e. they do not provide consistent power consistently therefore there is need for thermal plants to even out the power production. Keeping these thermal plants on stand-by costs money passed on to consumers.


Are you saying that KPLC pays for power not supplied?

Yes.

When you lease a car, the car is yours to use BUT there's a charge for having the car available exclusively for you. You can use it whenever you want to. Or do not use it. The lease fee covers the cost (& profit) of the lessor who supplies the car to you.

You pay for the driver and fuel. If you do not use the car, there's no fuel charge but you have to pay for the driver a fixed amount whether you use him 1 hour a week or 8 hours a day.

KQ leases planes. There is a lease fee/cost. The plane can sit at JKIA looking all nice and shiny. Or the plane can be flown & KQ pays for the fuel and crew. The lease fee/cost applies either way.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#78 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:01:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.

This is a point many, many people do not understand including folks appointed to the ERC. The PPAs have minimum off-take agreements so those thermal plants may not be 'producing' but KPLC (aka consumers) still pay for the plants 'waiting' to produce. The same applies to wind or hydro.

Solar and Wind are variable sources i.e. they do not provide consistent power consistently therefore there is need for thermal plants to even out the power production. Keeping these thermal plants on stand-by costs money passed on to consumers.


Are you saying that KPLC pays for power not supplied?

Yes.

When you lease a car, the car is yours to use BUT there's a charge for having the car available exclusively for you. You can use it whenever you want to. Or do not use it. The lease fee covers the cost (& profit) of the lessor who supplies the car to you.

You pay for the driver and fuel. If you do not use the car, there's no fuel charge but you have to pay for the driver a fixed amount whether you use him 1 hour a week or 8 hours a day.

KQ leases planes. There is a lease fee/cost. The plane can sit at JKIA looking all nice and shiny. Or the plane can be flown & KQ pays for the fuel and crew. The lease fee/cost applies either way.


So simply put, since KPLC charges the consumer, the gain goes to the power producing companies right?

Anyway, i don't see this being an enough incentive for an investor given the sunk costs.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
VituVingiSana
#79 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:16:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.

This is a point many, many people do not understand including folks appointed to the ERC. The PPAs have minimum off-take agreements so those thermal plants may not be 'producing' but KPLC (aka consumers) still pay for the plants 'waiting' to produce. The same applies to wind or hydro.

Solar and Wind are variable sources i.e. they do not provide consistent power consistently therefore there is need for thermal plants to even out the power production. Keeping these thermal plants on stand-by costs money passed on to consumers.


Are you saying that KPLC pays for power not supplied?

Yes.

When you lease a car, the car is yours to use BUT there's a charge for having the car available exclusively for you. You can use it whenever you want to. Or do not use it. The lease fee covers the cost (& profit) of the lessor who supplies the car to you.

You pay for the driver and fuel. If you do not use the car, there's no fuel charge but you have to pay for the driver a fixed amount whether you use him 1 hour a week or 8 hours a day.

KQ leases planes. There is a lease fee/cost. The plane can sit at JKIA looking all nice and shiny. Or the plane can be flown & KQ pays for the fuel and crew. The lease fee/cost applies either way.


So simply put, since KPLC charges the consumer, the gain goes to the power producing companies right?

Anyway, i don't see this being an enough incentive for an investor given the sunk costs.

There is a fixed (agreed upon) payment that covers the costs of IPPs even if no electricity is produced. The PPAs are for a long duration and any sales during that period = icing on the cake.

It benefits all if they produce electricity which is consumed for production but if our generation capacity exceeds the consumption then it hurts us as we pay for unused capacity. Thermal power will come in handy when we have droughts, outages from other sources or spikes in usage.

Lucky for us, diesel (& fuel oil) prices have dropped but long-term use of thermal power is pricey.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
murchr
#80 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:22:59 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
@murchr
It's becaue of the fixed cost that you get whether you produce power or not.
Right now some of the thermal producers are not producing electricity but are being paid the fixed cost.
How easy is it to make money;you can turn off the machines fire everyone and have only an askari to guard but the money you will be paid as fixed cost is more than 100 times the salary of the askari.

This is a point many, many people do not understand including folks appointed to the ERC. The PPAs have minimum off-take agreements so those thermal plants may not be 'producing' but KPLC (aka consumers) still pay for the plants 'waiting' to produce. The same applies to wind or hydro.

Solar and Wind are variable sources i.e. they do not provide consistent power consistently therefore there is need for thermal plants to even out the power production. Keeping these thermal plants on stand-by costs money passed on to consumers.


Are you saying that KPLC pays for power not supplied?

Yes.

When you lease a car, the car is yours to use BUT there's a charge for having the car available exclusively for you. You can use it whenever you want to. Or do not use it. The lease fee covers the cost (& profit) of the lessor who supplies the car to you.

You pay for the driver and fuel. If you do not use the car, there's no fuel charge but you have to pay for the driver a fixed amount whether you use him 1 hour a week or 8 hours a day.

KQ leases planes. There is a lease fee/cost. The plane can sit at JKIA looking all nice and shiny. Or the plane can be flown & KQ pays for the fuel and crew. The lease fee/cost applies either way.


So simply put, since KPLC charges the consumer, the gain goes to the power producing companies right?

Anyway, i don't see this being an enough incentive for an investor given the sunk costs.

There is a fixed (agreed upon) payment that covers the costs of IPPs even if no electricity is produced. The PPAs are for a long duration and any sales during that period = icing on the cake.

It benefits all if they produce electricity which is consumed for production but if our generation capacity exceeds the consumption then it hurts us as we pay for unused capacity. Thermal power will come in handy when we have droughts, outages from other sources or spikes in usage.

Lucky for us, diesel (& fuel oil) prices have dropped but long-term use of thermal power is pricey.


If we choose to care less about wanjiku(who foots the bill) the other participants are making money right...I guess that's what matters
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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