Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Centum pays out KSH 1 billion to employees
Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
|
VituVingiSana wrote:ngapat wrote:Horton wrote:Say what u wish, centrum is a 65bob stock soon. It's one of the very few companies trading at book value (or close to it). They have made some very smart moves, case in point 180,000 bob per acre in Vipingo. Where an acre is going for 16m. The CEO bought his stake at 64 bob. If u look at daily volumes, the demand easily outstrips supply. The coal project, which kicks off in Jan will be quite something financially. Also, with 2 rivers coming online, cash flows due to rent will greatly improve and due to the publicity of the largest mall in this side of the world, shares should do extremely well. I suggest you get on to this ship at reasonable prices before it's too late. What you say is true but the beneficiaries are employees. Imagine how much bonuses they will pocket from vipingo land when its used to calculate the NAV. You will be bought out by force at one time by bonus rich employees and centum will delist 1) I don't think the Vipingo land is worth 16mn today but if Centum [at a cost] adds infrastructure [think 2 Rivers] then the value will jump from the 180,000 they paid. 2) One doesn't get bought out unless they offer their shares. There may be a compulsory acquisition but that requires 90% of the shares owned by the acquirer. Kirubi has 30% and even if the employees have 20% ... there's still 40% held by others. They will can slowly accumulate the remaining 40% from share holders who have not got any returns for a long time. A shareholder who bought centum in 2009 has never received any returns to date. For them to get any returns, they will have to sell some of their shares and thats where they will buy the remaining 40%. I still believe the best way to measure performance is by ROE or ROA. If NAV is used, then bonuses should not be paid in cash. To pay cash bonuses based on NAV growth will lead a company into negative cash-flow position. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 5/14/2014 Posts: 289 Location: nairobi
|
it is easy to point out comments by centum employees in this thread.. I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
|
target1360 wrote:it is easy to point out comments by centum employees in this thread.. How is this constructive?
|
|
|
Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/16/2015 Posts: 15
|
urstill1 wrote:Quote:“Should there be a drop in shareholder wealth, payment will not be made and will be deferred until the year when shareholder wealth is restored,” Centum says in its latest annual report. Those who leave the company before being paid their bonus automatically forfeit the sums.
So let me understand this.. and correct me if I am wrong last year bonus about 500M paid in 3 installments 2014 = 166.6, 2015 = 166.6, 2017 = 166.6 This year bonus = 1billion paid in 3 installments 2015 = 333.333, 2016 = 333.333, 2017= 333.333 next year bonus?? = 2 billion?? paid in 3 installments? If I worked here there is no way i am leaving. It is till death do as part.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
|
businesspundit wrote:urstill1 wrote:Quote:“Should there be a drop in shareholder wealth, payment will not be made and will be deferred until the year when shareholder wealth is restored,” Centum says in its latest annual report. Those who leave the company before being paid their bonus automatically forfeit the sums.
So let me understand this.. and correct me if I am wrong last year bonus about 500M paid in 3 installments 2014 = 166.6, 2015 = 166.6, 2017 = 166.6 This year bonus = 1billion paid in 3 installments 2015 = 333.333, 2016 = 333.333, 2017= 333.333 next year bonus?? = 2 billion?? paid in 3 installments? If I worked here there is no way i am leaving. It is till death do as part. And in this case the death of the employee or the death of the company. Whichever comes first! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,224 Location: Nairobi
|
ngapat wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:ngapat wrote:Horton wrote:Say what u wish, centrum is a 65bob stock soon. It's one of the very few companies trading at book value (or close to it). They have made some very smart moves, case in point 180,000 bob per acre in Vipingo. Where an acre is going for 16m. The CEO bought his stake at 64 bob. If u look at daily volumes, the demand easily outstrips supply. The coal project, which kicks off in Jan will be quite something financially. Also, with 2 rivers coming online, cash flows due to rent will greatly improve and due to the publicity of the largest mall in this side of the world, shares should do extremely well. I suggest you get on to this ship at reasonable prices before it's too late. What you say is true but the beneficiaries are employees. Imagine how much bonuses they will pocket from vipingo land when its used to calculate the NAV. You will be bought out by force at one time by bonus rich employees and centum will delist 1) I don't think the Vipingo land is worth 16mn today but if Centum [at a cost] adds infrastructure [think 2 Rivers] then the value will jump from the 180,000 they paid. 2) One doesn't get bought out unless they offer their shares. There may be a compulsory acquisition but that requires 90% of the shares owned by the acquirer. Kirubi has 30% and even if the employees have 20% ... there's still 40% held by others. They will can slowly accumulate the remaining 40% from share holders who have not got any returns for a long time. A shareholder who bought centum in 2009 has never received any returns to date. For them to get any returns, they will have to sell some of their shares and thats where they will buy the remaining 40%. I still believe the best way to measure performance is by ROE or ROA. If NAV is used, then bonuses should not be paid in cash. To pay cash bonuses based on NAV growth will lead a company into negative cash-flow position. Well, they [employees and Kirubi] can only buy shares that you [the other shareholders] sell. If you do not sell, they cannot buy. Total Return is a much better measure than dividends. I am a Warren Buffett fan whose investment vehicle [Berkshire Hathaway] does not pay dividends yet the 'return' for those shareholders who have been with him since the 60s has been phenomenal. Until fairly recently, Apple and Microsoft didn't pay dividends either and both have grown shareholder wealth immensely for those shareholders who got in in the early 90s. *I am NOT saying Centum is a great buy or a great firm but saying that dividends is not the sole criteria when returns are calculated* MyStocks has the HIGHEST price in 2009 as 14.55/- & currently it's 53/- so a Total Return of 300% [4x the price in 6 years]. This is an awesome Total Return. In some respects I agree with you. I prefer bonuses are paid in RESTRICTED stock vs cash. Also Warren Buffett doesn't mind paying bonuses in cash but he is a Managers' Manager like no other i.e. he keeps an eye out on CASH GENERATION as well. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
|
VituVingiSana wrote:ngapat wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:ngapat wrote:Horton wrote:Say what u wish, centrum is a 65bob stock soon. It's one of the very few companies trading at book value (or close to it). They have made some very smart moves, case in point 180,000 bob per acre in Vipingo. Where an acre is going for 16m. The CEO bought his stake at 64 bob. If u look at daily volumes, the demand easily outstrips supply. The coal project, which kicks off in Jan will be quite something financially. Also, with 2 rivers coming online, cash flows due to rent will greatly improve and due to the publicity of the largest mall in this side of the world, shares should do extremely well. I suggest you get on to this ship at reasonable prices before it's too late. What you say is true but the beneficiaries are employees. Imagine how much bonuses they will pocket from vipingo land when its used to calculate the NAV. You will be bought out by force at one time by bonus rich employees and centum will delist 1) I don't think the Vipingo land is worth 16mn today but if Centum [at a cost] adds infrastructure [think 2 Rivers] then the value will jump from the 180,000 they paid. 2) One doesn't get bought out unless they offer their shares. There may be a compulsory acquisition but that requires 90% of the shares owned by the acquirer. Kirubi has 30% and even if the employees have 20% ... there's still 40% held by others. They will can slowly accumulate the remaining 40% from share holders who have not got any returns for a long time. A shareholder who bought centum in 2009 has never received any returns to date. For them to get any returns, they will have to sell some of their shares and thats where they will buy the remaining 40%. I still believe the best way to measure performance is by ROE or ROA. If NAV is used, then bonuses should not be paid in cash. To pay cash bonuses based on NAV growth will lead a company into negative cash-flow position. Well, they [employees and Kirubi] can only buy shares that you [the other shareholders] sell. If you do not sell, they cannot buy. Total Return is a much better measure than dividends. I am a Warren Buffett fan whose investment vehicle [Berkshire Hathaway] does not pay dividends yet the 'return' for those shareholders who have been with him since the 60s has been phenomenal. Until fairly recently, Apple and Microsoft didn't pay dividends either and both have grown shareholder wealth immensely for those shareholders who got in in the early 90s. *I am NOT saying Centum is a great buy or a great firm but saying that dividends is not the sole criteria when returns are calculated* MyStocks has the HIGHEST price in 2009 as 14.55/- & currently it's 53/- so a Total Return of 300% [4x the price in 6 years]. This is an awesome Total Return. In some respects I agree with you. I prefer bonuses are paid in RESTRICTED stock vs cash. Also Warren Buffett doesn't mind paying bonuses in cash but he is a Managers' Manager like no other i.e. he keeps an eye out on CASH GENERATION as well. So what's your point here
|
|
|
Rank: Hello Joined: 9/12/2015 Posts: 4
|
If this company is truely honest with it's dealings, well It's a very huge win for anyone who buys into it.
My thaughts though
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
|
Wazuans please note the number of posters in this thread with 2 or 3 posts and accounts created juzi tu.
@Admin you usually clamp down hard on shameless promotion, where are you now?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
|
Mike Ock wrote:Wazuans please note the number of posters in this thread with 2 or 3 posts and accounts created juzi tu.
@Admin you usually clamp down hard on shameless promotion, where are you now? I noticed that too . They might be the defence players from the team under scrutiny. Maybe some are employees enjoying the 1 billion of our "to be dividends"justifying here they had a right to "eat" ... just humor though 
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,778 Location: NAIROBI
|
They should be kicked out and the topic left to veterans who understand the market very well and shenanigans going on in the listed companies Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
|
That was expected , these are clever foxes
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
|
streetwise wrote:That was expected , these are clever foxes Of course you are not going to threaten some fellows' Billion shilling gravy train and they go down quietly!!! But the way I see it, they had better enjoy their Billions while they last. Unless the shareholders are a bunch of naive fellows, this will be stopped sooner rather than later! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
|
If this cash bonus on NAV growth continues to its conclusive end, Centum will eventually have to start selling off its assets to pay employee bonuses as the bonuses get bigger than the cashflows being generated by the businesses it owns.
Centum shareholders should be wary when Two Rivers land or the Vipingo land starts being valued at 10x its current value or suddenly the value of businesses within it goes up without a corresponding increase in cashflows. The bonus that will arise from that will eventually mean that employees will have total control of any cashflows coming from other businesses and the company might have to start selling off assets to pay these performance bonuses.
As a naija man would say "God forbid there's a real estate crash afterwards, that's when you'll realize you were the fool that was cheering on while getting scammed"
Buyer Beware: Slippery Slope!
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
|
Centum might try to argue this by saying that this happens in the PE world - but this is not the same thing.
PE firms take 20% carry on "REALIZED" profits not asset revaluations.
That means that the bonus only comes through once the investment has MATURED and been SOLD. The bonus is therefore on "CASHFLOW" basis.
For Centum that means that these bonuses e.g. on profits from Two Rivers would only be paid once Centum exited the investment or sold its stake at a profit or perhaps proportionally on a profit basis.
This whole compensation sucker game is starting to look eerily similar to ENRON - "The smartest guys in the room". Supposedly you super compensate employees and you'll attract the best in the game for it. ENRON was full of McKinsey types with Harvard degrees but the compensation structure leads to weird accounting gimmicks to meet the magical (in the case of Centum) NAV growth target to maintain the gravvy train.
The sucker shareholders are being told "this is what it takes to attract and maintain the best talent". I call it a fraud.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
|
As i said earlier on in this thread, this is an ENRON waiting to happen. The same same 2001 ENRON script been played out again, in front of our eyes, in 2015. The main characteristics of ENRON were; - had various Limited Liability Special Purpose Vehicles - (This helped in looting as well as hide liabilities), - Highly decorated and rewarded Company and Managers (Was named Most Innovative Company for 6 straight years - 1996 to 2001) -Employees were highly compensated year-in year-out and hence ENRON was "THE BEST COMPANY TO WORK FOR" (1996-2000) - Auditors, reporters etc were "encouraged" to present the firm in "GOOD PICTURE" - ENRON was a "Trade Anything" company. From Energy to Papers. ORGANISATIONAL FRAUD TRIANGLE  Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
|
kweli Centum ni kama embe. Saa zile shareholders wangoja liive employees walila na chumvi. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
|
|
|
Rank: Hello Joined: 9/12/2015 Posts: 4
|
Mike Ock wrote:Wazuans please note the number of posters in this thread with 2 or 3 posts and accounts created juzi tu.
@Admin you usually clamp down hard on shameless promotion, where are you now? Wewe  Acha u-hater
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
|
Mike Ock wrote:Wazuans please note the number of posters in this thread with 2 or 3 posts and accounts created juzi tu.
@Admin you usually clamp down hard on shameless promotion, where are you now? Agreed!!
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
|
Smart Wazua ladies should be tracking down the Hellos in this thread. They will be very 'romantic' this year.
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Centum pays out KSH 1 billion to employees
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|