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Hand dug shallow well
dunkang
#16 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 9:38:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
That problem is very common with hand dug wells in my area too (Githunguri). Our well is 140ft (42m) deep and was done in the early 90s (~1993).

What they do is dig for a maximum fifteen minutes a day. They also leave the well open throughout and throw some leaves inside (I believe this has something to do with photosynthesis i.e. CO2 + Water (in the presence of light) = Oxygen + Glucose.

I just can't find a sustainable better way of doing this water mining in the rural areas. Options are;

i. Make the well very wide (5m diameter) - The project would be very costly

ii. Buy those scuba diver oxygen tanks for the diggers - Cost may go up. Also, you don't want to add a load to the person down there,

iii. Mechanize the process - Cost may be a problem. You would need a heavy bit (Tarimbo) been dropped down and lifted continuously. Just ensure that the tarimbo does not snap when someone is inside removing the broken rocks.

iv. Abandon the project and instal a water pump direct from the river. For sustainability, incorporate solar systems.

#Just_My_2_Cents
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

taka jua
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 1:31:29 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 7/23/2012
Posts: 32
Rollins wrote:
Hi Wazuans. I hope this thread belongs here but i stand to be collected. I have some boys hand digging for me a shallow well in shags. They are past 100 ft but have been encountering 'gas' challenge. Apparently there is a gas that seeps from the crust and it can be choking so digging is very slow. Anyone know ho the gas is dealt with. They have been using banana stalks but its not too much.
Where are the wizened ones to help out a brother!




Have the gas tested, maybe you have just stumbled upon a natural gas wellsmile
Kaigangio
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 2:10:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
Njung'e wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.


Seriously??Shame on you .Go back to your chem teacher and ask for a refund.smile . I would go with having the gas identified first especially for toxicity and combustibility.You see,it might take one strike on a rock and Ka-boom,explosion.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Ngai baba!! Guka!

You see at 100 feet below the surface the surrounding temperature in the hole is slightly higher (somewhere between 30 to 35 degrees centigrade. At this temperature and due to presence of wet soil the air inside that hole is pretty humid and this constitutes the water vapour gas.

The so called gas in those shallow wells is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapour/humidity. The combined density of the gas mixture is close to 1.3 kg/cu.m. The air at the surface has a density equal to 1.2kg/cu.m which explains why there is no conventional air circulation in the hole and the denser gas mixture still remains in the hole. So, pumping in air will not displace the denser mixture in the hole, but rather the other way round.

In Kenya, the various geological surveys that have been carried out that i am aware of have not confirmed any presence of mineral gases on the surface. Here, I say surface because 100ft compared to 21,000,000ft(distance to centre of earth) is negligible. Only areas around Longonot, Nakuru and Marigat where those gases (mostly hydrogen sulphide and traces of sulphur dioxide) are found in very small amounts at more than 4000ft below the surface.

Back to the hole...At 100ft (30 metres) below the surface you have added another column of 30m above the normal atmospheric pressure...This may affect your breathing by making it a little difficult for you to breathe out.

Hii mambo ingine ya sijui ya testing the gas ni pang'ngá tupu.

...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Njung'e
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:22:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Kaigangio wrote:
[quote=Njung'e][quote=hardwood][quote=Kaigangio]


The so called gas in those shallow wells is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapour/humidity. The combined density of the gas mixture is close to 1.3 kg/cu.m. The air at the surface has a density equal to 1.2kg/cu.m which explains why there is no conventional air circulation in the hole and the denser gas mixture still remains in the hole. So, pumping in air will not displace the denser mixture in the hole, but rather the other way round.



Exactly! Same reason we all know why C02 doesn't leave an open bottle unless you invert it....Maybe we should be telling Rollins how to invert his wellsmile
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Lolest!
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2015 7:40:47 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Kaigangio wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
Hey chief, if your boys are already past 90 feet below the surface, they would better be careful not to stay in that hole for more than five minutes continuously in any digging session. Otherwise they may suffer some breathing problems.

There is nothing you can do about the gas unless of course you install an air pump to pump out the gas. But again if you do that, you might suck almost all the air in the hole and your boys will have nothing to breath in.


The pump should blow fresh air in to displace the noxious gas.


Seriously??Shame on you .Go back to your chem teacher and ask for a refund.smile . I would go with having the gas identified first especially for toxicity and combustibility.You see,it might take one strike on a rock and Ka-boom,explosion.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Ngai baba!! Guka!

You see at 100 feet below the surface the surrounding temperature in the hole is slightly higher (somewhere between 30 to 35 degrees centigrade. At this temperature and due to presence of wet soil the air inside that hole is pretty humid and this constitutes the water vapour gas.

The so called gas in those shallow wells is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapour/humidity. The combined density of the gas mixture is close to 1.3 kg/cu.m. The air at the surface has a density equal to 1.2kg/cu.m which explains why there is no conventional air circulation in the hole and the denser gas mixture still remains in the hole. So, pumping in air will not displace the denser mixture in the hole, but rather the other way round.

In Kenya, the various geological surveys that have been carried out that i am aware of have not confirmed any presence of mineral gases on the surface. Here, I say surface because 100ft compared to 21,000,000ft(distance to centre of earth) is negligible. Only areas around Longonot, Nakuru and Marigat where those gases (mostly hydrogen sulphide and traces of sulphur dioxide) are found in very small amounts at more than 4000ft below the surface.

Back to the hole...At 100ft (30 metres) below the surface you have added another column of 30m above the normal atmospheric pressure...This may affect your breathing by making it a little difficult for you to breathe out.

Hii mambo ingine ya sijui ya testing the gas ni pang'ngá tupu.


very clear.you took over from mukivaApplause Applause
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
its2013
#21 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:57:17 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 255
Rollins wrote:
Hi Wazuans. I hope this thread belongs here but i stand to be collected. I have some boys hand digging for me a shallow well in shags. They are past 100 ft but have been encountering 'gas' challenge. Apparently there is a gas that seeps from the crust and it can be choking so digging is very slow. Anyone know ho the gas is dealt with. They have been using banana stalks but its not too much.
Where are the wizened ones to help out a brother!



That sounds like a potentially toxic gas. Better get it tested first then you can have a way forward.
Pretty hurts
Chaka
#22 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2015 10:01:33 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
A possible way out for me would be to have two air pumps..one to suck out the denser CO2/water vapour and another(hose higher that the other one)pump in surface air i,e both pumps running..
How were the wells having depths of 95-120 ft dug?I would dread a worker(s) dying down there..
Rollins
#23 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:48:28 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
I will be visiting the place to ascertain what the gas could be ( through face to face interview)*. The boys have dug another 17 ft so we are at 120 ft...Problem partly overcome by leaving the hole uncovered (quiet risky) and partly swirling banana leaves continously as the digging goes. when the fumes are too strong they take a break.
Here is hoping water is struck sooner.
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
matatuman
#24 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:31:57 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/5/2013
Posts: 224
Rollins wrote:
I will be visiting the place to ascertain what the gas could be ( through face to face interview)*. The boys have dug another 17 ft so we are at 120 ft...Problem partly overcome by leaving the hole uncovered (quiet risky) and partly swirling banana leaves continously as the digging goes. when the fumes are too strong they take a break.
Here is hoping water is struck sooner.


There is no gas, at that depth there is no sufficient oxygen. A guy in a well with a diameter of approx 1.5 metres easily exhausts the available oxygen supply.
majimaji
#25 Posted : Monday, September 21, 2015 12:13:54 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

where can i get a small good reliable submersible pump for a well, apart from davis and shirtliff
TheOnlyZero
#26 Posted : Monday, September 21, 2015 12:52:20 PM
Rank: Hello

Joined: 8/3/2015
Posts: 3
Location: Nairobi
majimaji wrote:

where can i get a small good reliable submersible pump for a well, apart from davis and shirtliff


Try Rift Valley Machinery Serives and/or TransAfrica Water
"I'm a good cook. I've been cooking answers since my first exam years ago"
Rollins
#27 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2016 1:08:44 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
Some updates. The diggers managed to dig upto 120ft. The 'gas' problem was overcome by leaving the well open overnight and also using banana leaves. The person digging would go carry a banana leaf with him all the way down to supply some oxygen i guess. At 120ft my resources were depleted so the digging stopped sometimes in late October (around when elnino begun). So last week my old man was checking around the well and discovered it has some water which has kept rising. The last measurement revealed 12ft of water! some good news to me.
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
Rollins
#28 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2016 1:28:56 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
TheOnlyZero wrote:
majimaji wrote:

where can i get a small good reliable submersible pump for a well, apart from davis and shirtliff


Try Rift Valley Machinery Serives and/or TransAfrica Water


@Majimaji. Did you succeed in getting the pump? I am interested
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
kayhara
#29 Posted : Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:10:21 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,059
Rollins wrote:
Some updates. The diggers managed to dig upto 120ft. The 'gas' problem was overcome by leaving the well open overnight and also using banana leaves. The person digging would go carry a banana leaf with him all the way down to supply some oxygen i guess. At 120ft my resources were depleted so the digging stopped sometimes in late October (around when elnino begun). So last week my old man was checking around the well and discovered it has some water which has kept rising. The last measurement revealed 12ft of water! some good news to me.

120 ft wow those guys are not jokers, I live at the coast and I see guys here do cheaper boreholes usually 100k including the pipes the owner buys the pump and an overhead tank, doing cost coparison with how much you have used which one is cost effective, plus I have fears that guys can fall into wells not well covered, or collapsed covers.
To Each His Own
majimaji
#30 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2016 9:25:15 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162
Rollins wrote:
TheOnlyZero wrote:
majimaji wrote:

where can i get a small good reliable submersible pump for a well, apart from davis and shirtliff


Try Rift Valley Machinery Serives and/or TransAfrica Water


@Majimaji. Did you succeed in getting the pump? I am interested


I got one, made in Ukraine, Greece or some country where they use that funny alphabet. It was cheap 6500/=. Then I installed it and it was working but the vibration against the rocks in my well wore the base metal, a soft alloy and the thing went kaput...
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