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I&M Bank to buy GIRO Bank
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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@ericsson: http://www.girobankltd.c...agement-Team/The-Board/
No "Madhoubushi Soundararajan" at Giro in that list. He moved from CFC (as CEO) to I&M Bank (non-exec). He retired from CFC in 2008. http://www.capitalfm.co....at-helm-of-cfc-stanbic/
GA Kenya http://www.gakenya.com/board.aspx
Madhubushi Soundararajan was appointed on 29 Oct 2009 but the I&M Shah family was already an owner in 2006. The information available starts from 2006. http://www.gakenya.com/c...loads/cat_5/AR_2006.pdf
http://www.gakenya.com/c...l%20accounts%202009.pdf
Anyway, the questions for the minority shareholders are: Is it a good or excellent buy at these prices? What if it is compared to CFC Stanbic, Equity, KCB, etc? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,300
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Giro bank my first bank under SHAH MUNGE Brokers. Did both go under recievership after I moved out?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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Realtreaty wrote:Giro bank my first bank under SHAH MUNGE Brokers. Did both go under recievership after I moved out? Google is your friend. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
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@VituVingiSana; Sorry Soundararajan is a board member at Car and General which shares common ownership with Giro Bank. He couldn't be a director at I&M bank before 2009 because of conflicting roles since he was the CEO of CFC Bank. He retired from CFC in 2008 which was the year Standard Bank took control of CFC bank hence the majority owners had to have their person there. Anyway for movement in I&M bank watch that man keenly;he is the point man of the Shah family. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/14/2008 Posts: 39
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Glad someone is counterchecking this deep insider info aka conspiracy theory.. maybe we are being colonised too huh?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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@ericsson - I see your point that the connection (or common director) between Giro Bank (via C&G) and I&M Bank is Soundararajan. Perhaps he just made the 'introductions' rather than a "Grand Scheme" to consolidate the banks. If all he did was combine 2 banks [4.10% and 0.49%] in 6 years then it will take another 50 years for the likes of Prime, DTB, Imperial, etc to merge into a single bank! As for GA Insurance, it is a small firm vs Britam, UAP, etc and I don't recall GA buying out any other insurance firms. Cannon was sold to a Moroccan entity. Real to Britam. UAP to Old Mutual. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
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@VituVingiSana; Prime bank,Imperial and DTB are not into their plans of merger. DTB is owned and Pakistani based. I&M main target is the small indian banks like Guardian and Fidelity. GA yes is a small firm but the business remains inside so that money circulates within. The Indian/asian model has always to be owning a bank and insurance under one roof. DTB Bank has Jubilee Insurance CFC bank had Heritage and CFCLIfe Prime Bank has Tausi Insurance I&M bank has General Accident. Meralli with ECB has Fidelity and First Assurance. Note General Accident didn't buyout any other insurance but was bought. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Veteran You have been a member since:: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:Indians are converging towards One bank I&M bank which they will use to secure financing in their projects within east Africa.
That is why the bank is growing very fast.
Indians at CFCStnabic sold to Standard Bank SA and took their money to I&M Bank
Same case applied to East Africa Building Society which was sold to Ecobank.
And the same will apply to Fina Bank which was sold to Nigerian GT Bank @Ericsson, contrary to popular belief, wahindis don't always bank with banks owned by themselves. PS CFC is South African owned by Stanbic. Also, there is different tribes there too, Prime bank owned by the Kantarias- same community as Paunrana, Somaiya etc, I&M -Shah, DTB are Ismailis. Nonetheless, we don't bank with banks simply coz they are owned by muhindis as u have insinuated. I personally bank with BBK just coz it works for me. We're really not as "tight" as most people reckon us to be!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
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@Horton; Let us wait and see. CFC was majority owned by the Jain family before South Africans bought them out in 2008. Indians have caste and different groupings like Singh,Shah, Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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@vvs, Horton. I think what @Ericsson is trying to say is very clear. And should be taken as a point of information instead of being watered down. It's insider info, I doesn't have to make sense, right now. If it's false, no harm done. If it's true........ The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:@vvs, Horton. I think what @Ericsson is trying to say is very clear. And should be taken as a point of information instead of being watered down. It's insider info, I doesn't have to make sense, right now. If it's false, no harm done. If it's true........ What's the benefit to the CURRENT shareholders of I&M under @Ericsson's strategy? [Both majority & minority] Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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VituVingiSana wrote:Aguytrying wrote:@vvs, Horton. I think what @Ericsson is trying to say is very clear. And should be taken as a point of information instead of being watered down. It's insider info, I doesn't have to make sense, right now. If it's false, no harm done. If it's true........ What's the benefit to the CURRENT shareholders of I&M under @Ericsson's strategy? [Both majority & minority] Keeping the cash circulating within the "empire". like jubilee, nmg, jubilee. which reduces cost of doing business The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/1/2010 Posts: 272 Location: Nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:@vvs, Horton. I think what @Ericsson is trying to say is very clear. And should be taken as a point of information instead of being watered down. It's insider info, I doesn't have to make sense, right now. If it's false, no harm done. If it's true........ But we have to interrogate, we live in financial (and political) times, nothing like no harm done The harder you work, the luckier you get
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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kryptonite wrote:Aguytrying wrote:@vvs, Horton. I think what @Ericsson is trying to say is very clear. And should be taken as a point of information instead of being watered down. It's insider info, I doesn't have to make sense, right now. If it's false, no harm done. If it's true........ But we have to interrogate, we live in financial (and political) times, nothing like no harm done @kryptonite The best thing in the Katiba is the separation of policy implementers & (noisy) legislators. Finally, with the former, we have people we can engage with professionally & technocratically. God willing deliver KV2030 ahead of schedule!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:@VituVingiSana;
Prime bank,Imperial and DTB are not into their plans of merger.
DTB is owned and Pakistani based.
I&M main target is the small indian banks like Guardian and Fidelity.
GA yes is a small firm but the business remains inside so that money circulates within.
The Indian/asian model has always to be owning a bank and insurance under one roof.
DTB Bank has Jubilee Insurance
CFC bank had Heritage and CFCLIfe
Prime Bank has Tausi Insurance
I&M bank has General Accident.
Meralli with ECB has Fidelity and First Assurance.
Note General Accident didn't buyout any other insurance but was bought. The Financial Supermarket model is common. I remember when Travelers bought Citibank to form Citi Group. In Kenya, Equity has connections and shareholding in Britam. Coop Bank has CIC. NIC has ICEA. And so on. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Aguytrying wrote:@vvs, Horton. I think what @Ericsson is trying to say is very clear. And should be taken as a point of information instead of being watered down. It's insider info, I doesn't have to make sense, right now. If it's false, no harm done. If it's true........ What's the benefit to the CURRENT shareholders of I&M under @Ericsson's strategy? [Both majority & minority] Keeping the cash circulating within the "empire". like jubilee, nmg, jubilee. which reduces cost of doing business 1) Jubilee is an insurance firm. GA is an insurance firm. I&M Bank has no shareholding in GA. How do we [minority] shareholders benefit? The owners of GA look for the best return and if I&M doesn't pay the best rates they can go elsewhere. 2) I&M doesn't own other non-financial businesses. Lending to associates [or firms with common shareholders] is restricted by CBK. As is, as a minority shareholder, be wary of loans to insiders and associates. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
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@VituVingiSana Hahahah hahahahaa hahahaaa haaahahahaaa Eti I&M Bank has no shareholding in GA Read below excerpt from the website of General Accident; GA Insurance is one of the oldest insurance companies operating in Kenya, underwriting all classes of general insurance, including medical and travel. Formerly known as General Accident Insurance Company of Kenya Limited, having its parentage from General Accident Insurance UK, it was incorporated as a Kenyan insurance company in 1979. Enjoying its presence for over 50 years, the GA brand has earned its standing as one of the most reputable insurance companies in Kenya. In 2005, General Accident Insurance Company was acquired by the renowned I&M Bank Group in Kenya. The group has operations in Kenya, Tanzania and Mauritius with interests in banking, insurance, manufacturing and real estate. This acquisition brought with it a major transformation with complete restructuring of the company and change in management. Continuing with General Accident's legacy of a stable and steady company, it has now evolved into a stronger and potential player in the market. A consistent profitable growth since 2006 has placed the company among the major players in the industry. The emergence of the company during the last three years led us to re-brand the company in September 2009 with a new logo, new vibrant corporate colours and a new short name˜GA Insurance Limited. GA combines the integrity and financial strength that has earned it the pre-eminent position in the insurance market. As minority shareholders you benefit through additional income from other associates. Similar ways Coop benefits from shareholding of CIC Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,131 Location: Nairobi
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@ericsson - So how much of GA Insurance does I&M Bank own? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
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100% Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/14/2010 Posts: 806 Location: Nairobi
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Just a clarification. The majority shareholders of I&M bank are the 100% shareholders of GA Insurance. The bank itself does not own shares in GA Insurance. So any benefits from GA Insurance accrue to the Shah family directly and not to I&M Bank.
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