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enyands
#101 Posted : Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:30:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
mlennyma wrote:
enyands wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
@Hamaina,

I will reiterate that Uganda, alongside all other African countries with the exception of Mauritius and to a small extent,Malawi, is a net importer. The thing that stabilizes and therefore makes them look like they have surplus is, weather (Good weather) and a low per capita sugar intake of 9kgs. On a bad year, like in 2011/2012 ,they were so hard hit that the price of sugar in Kampala rose to equivalent of Kshs 320 per Kg. What resulted was massive uncontrolled importation and since their taxation regime is much lower than ours,some of that sugar found it's way back into Kenya (or never left Kenya). Wouldn't opening up help in anticipating shortage and therefore cushioning the region from within? Maybe i am missing something.


Actually this is where creating a single market for Sugar (and later for other things) would make plenty of sense. Prices would stabilize and the expanded opportunity would encourage our factories to become efficient. One off handouts may offer good photo opportunities but will not save the likes of Mumias.


When you say kenya will be getting CHEAP SUGAR from Uganda ,then what will happen to the market demand reaction to expensive sugar produced by local sugar miller's since the cost of production is high resulting to expensive sugar??
Of course people will go for cheap sugar and that's when THE FINAL NAIL OF CRUCIFIXION OF LOCAL MILLER'S WILL HAPPEN . I feel bad for people in mumias bus

the world is an open market where you either become competitive or die.


I understand but I don't think competition rule applies here home.No no . Just start a business next to your well established neighbor whose your competitor. Atatafutia wewe risasi. Same thing hapa the risasi mumias has been given by cartels is Uganda sugar . It's cartels that rule not COMPETITION term .
VituVingiSana
#102 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 12:18:48 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
Njung'e wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
[quote=Njung'e]@Hamaina,

Well, what's wrong with that?
Weather - Countries with favorable weather for specific crops is what those countries produce those crops. Brazil and coffee. Kenya and tea. Canada and wheat.
Consumption per capita - That's not a bad thing. It's a personal choice. I try to limit my consumption of sugar for health reasons regardless of the price [I don't consume more when prices are lower] or production per capita.


Maybe i was not clear enough. I meant to say that the UG sugar belt has erratic weather unlike the Kenyan one and therefore, their annual sugar production is very unpredictable.One year they have plenty,the next,they are importing. Sugar intake per capita is more a component of affordability by households than a preference. That's why average intake in US is higher than in Kenya and lowest in poorer countries such as Mozambique. I hope i am clearer now.

Agricultural commodities' pricing is very volatile because of the weather. I have seen the lows, highs, lows, highs of tea prices since I started investing on the NSE.

Therefore, we need a policy (enforced by BOTH Kenya & Uganda) that only Ugandan sugar can be exported to Kenya when there is a surplus of Ugandan sugar. We do not want Ugandan sugar to be exported to Kenya while the Ugandans import sugar from Brazil.

Bigger Picture: Kenya needs to get rid of its 3-4 gov't owned/controlled sugar mills. Period. They need to be sold. Or shut down. I don't care. There are private (presumably profitable) mills fighting for cane.

I had an extensive discussion with the CEO of a tea firm. He said that they changed the system of payment to outgrowers and this has been a great boon to both the Tea Firm and the outgrowers.

Perhaps what the private [meaning multinationals] tea firms are doing is a partial solution for the sugar millers.

Old System/KTDA:

Pay farmers a token amount (after 2-4 weeks) per kilo of leaf delivered.
Then pay a 'interim bonus' 8-10 weeks later.
Then pay a 'final bonus' at the end of the 'season' [tea grows year round but there are periods of low & high production].
Complex calculations or explanations to farmers about auctions, exchange rates or deductions.
Farmers were perpetually broke & pissed off. They thought they were being conned.
They would squander the bonuses on alcohol and whores.
They would sell leaf to brokers (who paid daily or weekly) not the factory/processor.

New System/Private:

Pay farmers a fair price for (green) leaf delivered. It's based on the quality & quantity of leaf. Paid weekly.
No bonus. No accrual accounting. Also competition for leaf by the various factories.
Farmers get their money every week so they can't blow it all away at once.
No need for complex calculations or explanations to farmers about auctions, exchange rates or deductions.
The tea firm takes the risk on the tea [price variations] but it can adjust the price for leaf on a weekly basis based on market trends.
Farmers can sell to any factory they want to but prefer those who pay 'fast'.
Brokers are cut out unless they pay cash at the gate.
Family harmony since the wives also know what is delivered, the price paid and the expected proceeds! Plus with technology, payments are made directly to the bank or M-Pesa.

Bottomline:
An increase in quality and quantity of the leaf delivered since farmers/outgrowers immediately see the connection between proceeds vis-a-vis the quality and quantity.
Reduced costs of 'accounting' as well as reduction in corruption by staff i.e. 'lost' records, etc. [I think technology has helped]
They upgraded their (manufacturing) facilities to cope with the additional leaf they expect when the rains come.
Cashflow management is much easier since there's no need to estimate how much cash is needed for the bonuses.

I wonder if the private sugar millers [Butali, Kibos] already have something similar.

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mukoya
#103 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 3:25:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/3/2007
Posts: 43
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!
nakujua
#104 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 4:01:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
mukoya wrote:
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!

Refined sugar
enyands
#105 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:49:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
mukoya wrote:
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!



I feel you brother. In my article #101 I talked about there is no competition just cartels. I don't think @mukoya had to fight any competition to have his money not paid to him for his deliveries. Some of those mpigs can do a legislation to protect farmers but I know some of them who are kings of cartels.things can change when you cut the snake at its head. But chopping it's tail won't necessarily mean the snake will die.
streetwise
#106 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 8:46:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
The noise between cord and Jubilee may actually help mumias
Njung'e
#107 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 9:45:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Some things need not be said further unless we want to listen to quacks. Some fears are even not worth discussing. This,ladies and gentlemen,is what will transform our sugar businesses.Positive thinking in an expanding business world.All else is hot air. In 8 months time, i will comment.

https://www.standardmedi...-is-to-win-over-farmers

http://www.the-star.co.k...anny-numbers-luhyas-told
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
VituVingiSana
#108 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 11:21:00 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
mukoya wrote:
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!

You should get it in 'sugar' form. At least you can sell it.
Some questions to help me understand this business.
What is the wholesale price of sugar at the factory?
Have you delivered cane to Chemelil since March?
If yes, why?
If no, what other options are open to you?
How is the payment for cane [weight, sucrose] calculated?
Is there corruption [are you asked to pay so they accept cane or to receive a payment]?
Are you a small-scale or large (plantation) farmer?
What's the tonnage per acre of cane?
How much sugar (on average) would 1 ton of cane produce?
Did the machinery look new/recent or old/inefficient to you?
Would you invest [in general terms] in a privatization of Chemelil?
In your words, what ails Mumias?
[The price is 2/- & there is a new (or rather old) CEO in town and I am trying to figure out if there's a potential turnaround]
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
enyands
#109 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 12:29:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
the brother is already on distress about school fees he hasn't paid for his kid so maswali mingi is another distress on him . @mukoya please don't plant sugar cane again.Uganda and brazil will plant it for us.plant tomatoes and fuga kuku other cash crops that will generate more income and has less politics involved than one that is highly politicized .I come from where we plant corn.its not heavily politicized because there is free market. but a company where the govt has a lot of interest in it please fear your region will be punished for not being "politically correct"
Museveni
#110 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 8:35:52 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 660
VituVingiSana wrote:
mukoya wrote:
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!

You should get it in 'sugar' form. At least you can sell it.
Some questions to help me understand this business.
What is the wholesale price of sugar at the factory?
Have you delivered cane to Chemelil since March?
If yes, why?
If no, what other options are open to you?
How is the payment for cane [weight, sucrose] calculated?
Is there corruption [are you asked to pay so they accept cane or to receive a payment]?
Are you a small-scale or large (plantation) farmer?
What's the tonnage per acre of cane?
How much sugar (on average) would 1 ton of cane produce?
Did the machinery look new/recent or old/inefficient to you?
Would you invest [in general terms] in a privatization of Chemelil?
In your words, what ails Mumias?
[The price is 2/- & there is a new (or rather old) CEO in town and I am trying to figure out if there's a potential turnaround]

bottleneck is 'distribution'

The so called cartels control the distribution.

If some of these factories addressed this distribution gap instead of focusing on while elephant projects when they cant even move their product, then they would cut out the middleman.

If only the journos can do their work and unmask some of the distribution cartels like they doing in the 'gospel industry', then alot would change. Including that price of a kilo of sugar at the local supermarket.

Depending on the legislators to solve this is a comic show. The cartels are major funds contributors to these same politicians yapping on the screens everyday (both sides of the debate). Some are even 'advisers'.

How will the fox guard the chicken coop ?
Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
HaMaina
#111 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 9:39:07 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 910
The way the sugar cards are being played, tinga tinga seems to be holding all 4 Q,s.
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
HaMaina
#112 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 11:36:46 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 910
Onyango Oloo claims that CORD leadership brought down the Mumias Sugar Company

http://www.standardmedia...the-mumias-sugar-company
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
hardwood
#113 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 11:54:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
mukoya wrote:
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!


At Nakumatt there's only "Lugazi sugar" and "Nakumatt sugar" retailing at 195bob. It's a long time since i saw chemilil or mumias sugar which was selling at 245bob.
HaMaina
#114 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 7:33:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 910
I listened to tinga tinga's reasoning to the Mumias debt, that the molases loan should have been paid by the company, and if it wasn't paid, then it had been guaranteed by the bank, therefore all this talk of unpaid debt should not arise.

My question to wazuan's is which bank is this and what do I need to do to get a loan?
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
VituVingiSana
#115 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:25:14 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
HaMaina wrote:
I listened to tinga tinga's reasoning to the Mumias debt, that the molases loan should have been paid by the company, and if it wasn't paid, then it had been guaranteed by the bank, therefore all this talk of unpaid debt should not arise.

My question to wazuan's is which bank is this and what do I need to do to get a loan?

First say "xyz Tosha"
Second become a Minister/Senator/MP as part of a coalition
Third become a PM/DP/PORK
Fourth then the banks will come to you...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
streetwise
#116 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 10:05:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
So what Tinga is saying he never paid.

I think the high priest of corruption is right this time; CORD brought Mumias down and now they are blaming the Gova. Shame shame shame !!!! Shameless thiefs
HaMaina
#117 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:13:46 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 910
streetwise wrote:
The noise between cord and Jubilee may actually help mumias


Any "Noise" cord makes without having a majority in Parliament or at least a substantial voting block ends up being like some of those kesha sermons in the neighborhood. You hear them, might even understand whats being said, but they will not stop you from having a good nights sleep.
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
HaMaina
#118 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:44:32 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/23/2014
Posts: 910
Business Daily Update:

Sugar shortage looms as cheap imports row rages

http://www.businessdaily.../0/-/3btuef/-/index.html
“You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
VituVingiSana
#119 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:41:21 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
mukoya wrote:
guys I'm a sugarcane farmer and politics aside I delivered my cane to Chemelil sugar in March and haven't been paid to date went there last week and the chief accountant took me to their stores to show me it was full of sugar that they can not sell till I wished they would pay me in sugar to recover my money question this shortage that govt is talking about is it on paper or on the ground!


Your chief accountant needs to get off his bum and call up Nakumatt.
http://www.businessdaily.../0/-/3btuef/-/index.html
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
streetwise
#120 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:20:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
Ahaaaa!!!!! now I see the opportunity for Mumias.

1. There are farmers whose cane is rotting in the fields with no one to churn it into sugar. There is a possibly for a accepting reduced cash purchase prices.

2. There is a BIG gap between current supply and demand, holding all thing constant.

3. Mumias has the capacity to churn out huge volumes of sugar.

4. With the demand outstripping supply , price will not be part of the equation.

5. There is a political fight for "Sugar" which is making some guys sleepless. Jubilee is scared shitless, they may even write off all Mumias debt.

Quote me on this Mumias will make millionaires yet again this time without the beneficiary having to steal.

And you can bank this into any bank other than Dubai Bank

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