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Sugar politics
mawinder
#31 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 1:20:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
I will stick to the issues at hand and give my 2 cents.For starters these are the facts.Brookside is owned by the mtembezi family.Museveni's mpango wa kando is setting up a sugar factory in Uganda.This must have motivated the agreements.I wonder if Kenya has ever had a surplus milk production and if the same can be sold to Uganda profitably , same case to beef in which I doubt we can export our beef to Uganda.I also doubt Uganda can produce significant quantities of sugar to make any difference.If our politicians were sincere, let them back their arguments with facts and not just porojo.What do they understand by the term regional integration? Why are they predicting the future?Let them fool their wives and their big stomachs.Useless people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nakujua
#32 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 1:54:08 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
jokes wrote:
nakujua wrote:
Alba wrote:
nakujua wrote:

good points, but large scale mechanized farming will still kill the mumias and chemelil farmers, and will end up benefiting a few plantation lords.
Hapa hakuna solution to the sugar cane belt people at the end of the day in the continually globalized climate they will be the losers.

If they still want to deal with sugar, they would need to form cooperatives and use their leadership to press the government to give them some advantage in importing sugar and selling the same locally, instead of their leadership continually complaining about Uganda.

Lakini kama ni options; beef, poultry, cotton ...



It may benefit a few plantation lords but at least it will keep Mumias Sugar, SoNY and other factories viable au siyo?

In terms of other options, I think beef is out because grade cattle do not survive there for some reason. This makes commercial ranching difficult.

Cotton is out because it also requires heavy mechanization and large scale farms in order to be viable. This is why cotton which used to thrive in Kisumu in the 1970s is dead.

Also I understand that cotton requires a certain type of soil that has very good drainage. This is what made the Kisumu area ideal for cotton.
What also made Kisumu ideal is the climate which is very dry during the harvesting season. Excessive rain ruins cotton.

That leaves only poultry.

I was thinking more of Boran, Zebu types smile
But honestly the small scale farmers who are the main point contention here need to look far and beyond the box. Growing new skills and gaining experience can take some time, lakini for now anything is better than sugar.


What our farmers need is a knowledge from their sons,daughters, brothers, sister, whom they struggled to send to school, to study and bring back that knowledge and improve their lives in the village AKA AGRICULTURISTS;
In the Israel Negev deserts i saw farms called kibbutz that use soil blown by winds from Africa that fall on one side of a hill and they collect this fine dust as soil to farm vegetables, fruits and raise cows in place that as not rained in the last 7 years and they export this produce.
Kenya is Eden compared to Israel we just have the wrong people advising our parents and relatives.


wewe haujui western, ukirudi utaendewa kwa waganga - you won't survive, kuna macho mbaya huko smile
most permanent houses are usually left halfway, thats why even the rich leaders from huko just have mud walled huts mashinani.

lakini in that respect what has killed innovation and development is tribalism, people either settle in nairobi or back to their tribal regions - if in Kenya one can settle anywhere without much issues, we would be a step ahead.
McReggae
#33 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 2:06:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
mawinder wrote:
I will stick to the issues at hand and give my 2 cents.For starters these are the facts.Brookside is owned by the mtembezi family.Museveni's mpango wa kando is setting up a sugar factory in Uganda.This must have motivated the agreements.I wonder if Kenya has ever had a surplus milk production and if the same can be sold to Uganda profitably , same case to beef in which I doubt we can export our beef to Uganda.I also doubt Uganda can produce significant quantities of sugar to make any difference.If our politicians were sincere, let them back their arguments with facts and not just porojo.What do they understand by the term regional integration? Why are they predicting the future?Let them fool their wives and their big stomachs.Useless people!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mbarara in Uganda has the cheapest milk in the region, Brookside recently acquired Sameer Agricultural and Livestock company (former KCC of Uganda) to take advantage of this cheap milk. If you check especially the 500ml brookside milk with the cap utaona, packed in Uganda!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Kusadikika
#34 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 3:24:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,727
jokes wrote:
nakujua wrote:
Alba wrote:
nakujua wrote:

good points, but large scale mechanized farming will still kill the mumias and chemelil farmers, and will end up benefiting a few plantation lords.
Hapa hakuna solution to the sugar cane belt people at the end of the day in the continually globalized climate they will be the losers.

If they still want to deal with sugar, they would need to form cooperatives and use their leadership to press the government to give them some advantage in importing sugar and selling the same locally, instead of their leadership continually complaining about Uganda.

Lakini kama ni options; beef, poultry, cotton ...



It may benefit a few plantation lords but at least it will keep Mumias Sugar, SoNY and other factories viable au siyo?

In terms of other options, I think beef is out because grade cattle do not survive there for some reason. This makes commercial ranching difficult.

Cotton is out because it also requires heavy mechanization and large scale farms in order to be viable. This is why cotton which used to thrive in Kisumu in the 1970s is dead.

Also I understand that cotton requires a certain type of soil that has very good drainage. This is what made the Kisumu area ideal for cotton.
What also made Kisumu ideal is the climate which is very dry during the harvesting season. Excessive rain ruins cotton.

That leaves only poultry.

I was thinking more of Boran, Zebu types smile
But honestly the small scale farmers who are the main point contention here need to look far and beyond the box. Growing new skills and gaining experience can take some time, lakini for now anything is better than sugar.


What our farmers need is a knowledge from their sons,daughters, brothers, sister, whom they struggled to send to school, to study and bring back that knowledge and improve their lives in the village AKA AGRICULTURISTS;
In the Israel Negev deserts i saw farms called kibbutz that use soil blown by winds from Africa that fall on one side of a hill and they collect this fine dust as soil to farm vegetables, fruits and raise cows in place that as not rained in the last 7 years and they export this produce.
Kenya is Eden compared to Israel we just have the wrong people advising our parents and relatives.



I think you have a point @jokes. The problem is
non of these children went to study agriculture or anything related to it. They all went to study accounting, marketing, business administration and aviation in colleges like Nairobi aviation.......... then got stuck in Nairobi looking for aviation jobs.....
harrydre
#35 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:45:40 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
at the end of the day, i want my sugar, milk and other consumables cheap, so farmers, take ownership of these factories and improve your processes, eradicate the middlemen otherwise you will just have to die a natural death. Sooner or later, the markets will open. We can't be talking of US of Africa and at the same time restrict trade.
i.am.back!!!!
harrydre
#36 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:47:17 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
Kusadikika wrote:
jokes wrote:
nakujua wrote:
Alba wrote:
nakujua wrote:

good points, but large scale mechanized farming will still kill the mumias and chemelil farmers, and will end up benefiting a few plantation lords.
Hapa hakuna solution to the sugar cane belt people at the end of the day in the continually globalized climate they will be the losers.

If they still want to deal with sugar, they would need to form cooperatives and use their leadership to press the government to give them some advantage in importing sugar and selling the same locally, instead of their leadership continually complaining about Uganda.

Lakini kama ni options; beef, poultry, cotton ...



It may benefit a few plantation lords but at least it will keep Mumias Sugar, SoNY and other factories viable au siyo?

In terms of other options, I think beef is out because grade cattle do not survive there for some reason. This makes commercial ranching difficult.

Cotton is out because it also requires heavy mechanization and large scale farms in order to be viable. This is why cotton which used to thrive in Kisumu in the 1970s is dead.

Also I understand that cotton requires a certain type of soil that has very good drainage. This is what made the Kisumu area ideal for cotton.
What also made Kisumu ideal is the climate which is very dry during the harvesting season. Excessive rain ruins cotton.

That leaves only poultry.

I was thinking more of Boran, Zebu types smile
But honestly the small scale farmers who are the main point contention here need to look far and beyond the box. Growing new skills and gaining experience can take some time, lakini for now anything is better than sugar.


What our farmers need is a knowledge from their sons,daughters, brothers, sister, whom they struggled to send to school, to study and bring back that knowledge and improve their lives in the village AKA AGRICULTURISTS;
In the Israel Negev deserts i saw farms called kibbutz that use soil blown by winds from Africa that fall on one side of a hill and they collect this fine dust as soil to farm vegetables, fruits and raise cows in place that as not rained in the last 7 years and they export this produce.
Kenya is Eden compared to Israel we just have the wrong people advising our parents and relatives.



I think you have a point @jokes. The problem is
non of these children went to study agriculture or anything related to it. They all went to study accounting, marketing, business administration and aviation in colleges like Nairobi aviation.......... then got stuck in Nairobi looking for aviation jobs.....


and instead of finding solutions to problems through innovation and change, they keep whining and blaming the gok.
i.am.back!!!!
limanika
#37 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:43:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
So rao has said no to any sugar imports. Let's stop all imports and revisit the matter when there's no more sugar in the shelves..
harrydre
#38 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 7:31:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
limanika wrote:
So rao has said no to any sugar imports. Let's stop all imports and revisit the matter when there's no more sugar in the shelves..


already happening, and once it gets to 200 bob a kilo, same rao will be blaming the garment.

http://www.businessdaily...6/-/v89fgs/-/index.html
i.am.back!!!!
mzitoaggrey
#39 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 3:44:25 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 8/19/2015
Posts: 25
Why has all the shift turned to sugar in politics?

Pray Pray me think something is boiling underneath, because even KQ is in trouble and nobody talks about it.
harrydre
#40 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 9:29:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
By JAINDI KISERO
More by this Author

Why are we stoking a trade war with our largest trading partner? The noisy politicking over sugar imports from Uganda has the potential of damaging a system of co-operation which citizens of the two countries have painstakingly developed over years.

Indeed, statistics on trade balances between the two countries only show you a small picture of the level of co-operation.

Today, the ordinary middle-class person in Kampala is most likely to shop at Nakumatt, Uchumi or Tuskys, or deposit his money at the Kampala branch of the Kenya Commercial Bank, Equity Bank, or Commercial Bank of Africa, as well as insure his business with UAP.

Half of the 18 companies listed on the Uganda Securities Exchange are Kenyan.

Yet despite the fact that Kenyans hold high-profile jobs in Kampala’s corporate sector, especially in areas such as investment banking, insurance, marketing and ICT, resentment about domination by Kenyans is very mute, if any.

As for work permits, the regime in Uganda is very liberal. You cannot say the same of our other neighbour where a Kenyan working even on a short consultancy contract will not last for a month without being summoned for an interview.

Indeed, integration between Kenya and Uganda is at a level beyond personal relations between their leaderships.

Nor can this phenomenon be credited to the work of some bureaucrat sitting on an armchair in a carpeted office in Arusha.

It is about the attitudes of people of the two countries. Which begs the question: do we, really, want to squander and sacrifice this intangible asset developed by the citizens of the two countries over a mere 80,000 tonnes of sugar?

Our leaders are too preoccupied with short-term political calculations and risk losing sight of the benefits of co-operation between the two countries.

Mark you, the eight sugar milling plants in that country, at the very best, can only export 80,000 tonnes to Kenya in a year. We import in excess of 350,000 tonnes of sugar every year.

There are several myths being perpetuated by the political class which need to be exploded.

First, that Uganda sugar cannot come into the country without the permission of the Kenya Government.

The truth is that under the Customs Union of the East African Community, sugar from Uganda enjoys full access into Kenya.

Kenya and Uganda are also members of Comesa and Uganda sugar can, therefore, access our markets on Comesa terms. But importers must pay VAT, a Sugar Development Levy, and you need a permit from the Kenya Sugar Directorate.

Still, the point must be made that these are non-tariff barriers which infringe on free trade principles agreed upon under both the EAC and Comesa protocols.

The second myth is the following: That imports from Uganda are the reason the sugar industry in western Kenya is in dire straits.

If you look at the statistics on sugar imports between January and July, you will find that the largest quantities came from Zambia.

As a matter of fact, countries like Malawi. Swaziland, Madagascar and Zambia are bigger players here. The opposition to imports from Uganda is a complete red herring.

The third myth: If you stop sugar imports, the industry in Kenya will return to profitability.

Wrong, because the problem of the sugar industry in Western Kenya is basically a result of State neglect, illustrated by years of chronic under-capitalisation of State-owned sugar firms, mismanagement, low capacity utilisation rates by millers, corrupt outgrower sugar companies, poor crop varieties and delays in paying farmers.

The fourth myth: That unlike Uganda, the sugar industry is inefficient because it is State controlled. Not true because out of 12 mills, only four are state-owned.

West Kenya, Butali, Sukari, Trans Mara, Soin and Kwale are owned by private individuals and Mumias only partly owned by the State.

My parting shot: As long as the ex-factory prices by Ugandan millers remain much cheaper than what the millers in Kenya are charging, Ugandan sugar imports will keep flowing even if you place military tanks on the whole border between the two countries.

jkisero@ke.nationmedia.com. Twitter: @jaindikisero
i.am.back!!!!
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