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The 1982 coup
Mpenzi
#101 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:11:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
My own conjecture is that despite knowing about the plans for the coup Moi, Mulinge etc "allowed" the coup to proceed so as to justify and legitimize the massive oppression, detentions without trial, dictatorship that followed.
Lolest!
#102 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:25:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Mpenzi wrote:
My own conjecture is that despite knowing about the plans for the coup Moi, Mulinge etc "allowed" the coup to proceed so as to justify and legitimize the massive oppression, detentions without trial, dictatorship that followed.

including taking you guys to Gilgil
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
tycho
#103 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 1:49:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
@ tycho, agreed. Especially with point 3. History is always being written. Usually those in authority/those who shout loudest or at times those who appear right get their version recognised as the authentic one. Nonetheless, we are better off having different versions.


And to have all these versions, we must have a 'basket' of very 'peculiar' proportions and dimensions. Otherwise we'd have no version. There'd be no word. 'Nothing to say'.

The 'basket' is no doubt subjective experience, in that it is an object of 'cognition', but it is wholly 'objective' in the sense of having an 'end'.

It is to this 'end' that the 'historian' must 'strive'. These are the 'weighing scales'. They are the Sovereign Creator', 'The People'.

This thread is holy ground, I take off my shoes.




Impunity
#104 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 2:38:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
Lolest! wrote:
Mpenzi wrote:
My own conjecture is that despite knowing about the plans for the coup Moi, Mulinge etc "allowed" the coup to proceed so as to justify and legitimize the massive oppression, detentions without trial, dictatorship that followed.

including taking you guys to Gilgil


So the NYS thing came after 1982, I thought it came early...wapi kini @mukiha and @njunge to shade more light!
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Siringi
#105 Posted : Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:04:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
Agreed history ni story tu as told by those who were there and those who have been told by those who were there

Any wazuans read this ?
reviews pliz


Any credible online accounts of what went down

are these trustworthy? some blogs dont seem to have kind words for Pamba..

Hardtalk 1982-coup attempt lest you forget

1982 Untold stories

Chaos that was the 1982 coup attempt

Coup plot revelations




"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
Siringi
#106 Posted : Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:19:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
OK
RINK:===>Former '82 soldiers link Raila Odinga to 1982 airfoce failed coup Now suing GoK because Pamba ni Raia...

Most of those names... ISORAIT

"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
murchr
#107 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 11:35:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Its that time again when we remember....33 years on. May those who died RIP
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
harrydre
#108 Posted : Saturday, August 01, 2015 11:05:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
murchr wrote:
Its that time again when we remember....33 years on. May those who died RIP


What about the sponsors,financiers etc Where is justice?
i.am.back!!!!
kaka2za
#109 Posted : Saturday, August 01, 2015 11:15:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
The 1982 coup was one of the fatal events in our history.
1St was purging of Odinga in 1966 which watered the seed of ethnicity
2nd was the coup that turned Moi to a dictator
3rd was Kibaki Machakos junction accident which killed the Narc dream.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Impunity
#110 Posted : Saturday, August 01, 2015 6:49:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
harrydre wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its that time again when we remember....33 years on. May those who died RIP


What about the sponsors,financiers etc Where is justice?


Forgive, Forget, Accept and Move ON, just like @Bupamba did in in 2013 elections!

Sad
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Alba
#111 Posted : Sunday, August 02, 2015 1:36:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
The 1982 coup is the most over-rated event in Kenya's history and perhaps the one with the most lies attached to it.

Perhaps the silliest lie connected to this is that RAO was the main coup plotter and that Moi was benevolent in forgiving him. This is ridiculous because Moi kept RAO in detention for 8 years despite not being able to produce evidence of his involvement.

Fact is that Moi knew about the coup at least 2 months in advance. He declined to take action because he wanted to use it as an excuse for a massive crackdown on SONU and other dissidents like Anyona.

Current chief justice Willy Mutunga was among many UoN professors arrested. Maybe he not was the main coup plotter smile smile smile

All jox aside, most progressive people who wanted democtratic change in Kenya supported this coup. Most of them had been expelled from KANU and had no other political recourse since opposition parties were banned.
Nimerudi
#112 Posted : Sunday, August 02, 2015 1:51:13 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/21/2015
Posts: 78
Location: Pare Pare
Alba wrote:
When you consider how poorly executed the coup was it becomes difficult to imagine that a person like Oginga Odinga who was once VP and knew what it takes to topple a government was actually involved deeply. I mean seriously, these people thought that taking over broadcasting house amounted to a coup. How amateurish is that ?

So Oginga funded the coup huh ? How much funding did the Airforce serrvicemen really need to pick up their rifles and storm Broadcasting house ?

Its difficult to imagine that Oginga Odinga thought he could topple the government using two Airforce privates and no senior officers to mastermind the coup. This is a man who as a former VP understood how the military works.

Based on the original stories, I have read, the coup plotters were unhappy because of the way junior officers were treated and that was their main reason for plotting a coup. It is also obvious that Moi knew a coup was coming. Thats why according to reliable sources, he was so nonchalant about it.

Another thing that difficult to imagine is that given all the contacts Oginga had overseas, he never thought of an escape plan should the coup fail. He and RAO actually waited like sitting ducks for Moi to come and arrest them.

And RAO was not that popular in 1982. If Moi thought he was guilty, he would have charged him with treason.

Moi accused RAO of all manner of things when he was President and even locked him up in detention. But he never came out and said that RAO was one of the master minds of the coup and even went as far as dropping the charges ?

I have noticed of late that there has been a concerted effort in some of the media to trash Oginga Odinga. Those who lived through the Kenyatta years will tell you that the same thing happened in the 1970s. Is history repeating itself ?



Actually, Oginga was poor at organizing people and resources, as seen in the Kenyatta error (note not era).

This view is grounded on Daniel Branch's book (Kenya: Between hope and despair). In page 6, Branch describes Oneko as the organisational core of Odinga's plans. "A keen political ally of Odinga, his nous and organisational skills were much needed by the more impulsive Odinga."

If at all Rao&Co were at the centre of the coup, I wouldn't be surprised it flopped due to poor planning.
murchr
#113 Posted : Sunday, August 02, 2015 3:42:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Alba wrote:
The 1982 coup is the most over-rated event in Kenya's history and perhaps the one with the most lies attached to it.

Perhaps the silliest lie connected to this is that RAO was the main coup plotter and that Moi was benevolent in forgiving him. This is ridiculous because Moi kept RAO in detention for 8 years despite not being able to produce evidence of his involvement.

Fact is that Moi knew about the coup at least 2 months in advance. He declined to take action because he wanted to use it as an excuse for a massive crackdown on SONU and other dissidents like Anyona.

Current chief justice Willy Mutunga was among many UoN professors arrested. Maybe he not was the main coup plotter smile smile smile

All jox aside, most progressive people who wanted democtratic change in Kenya supported this coup. Most of them had been expelled from KANU and had no other political recourse since opposition parties were banned.



Sometimes am shocked by the level of sycophancy that you have. Rao himself confesses to have played a role which he calls "peripheral" (2012) and "central" 2006 why do you try to take that shine from him yet he boasts that he was doing it to fight for "rights and freedoms"? It was Joseph Odigi Obuon who deeply implicated father and son.

The main reason for the coup was that some Luo guys felt left out in the govt and army. Odigi explained it there was no Luo who was in a higher rank than a brigadier, and there were no more than 3 Luo ministers in cabinet.

The initial plotter - note not organizer - was Dianga who was arrested before the coup however that did not deter its moving on tho, Ochuka took over and it flopped. During his trial after the coup was quashed, Ochuka confessed that he acted because there had not been proper presidential elections since independence and because his people had been abandoned by the government. He was also wary of a rumored coup by Kikuyu officers whom he had to beat to the game.

So please dont take that shine away. As for Mo1 forgiving Rao....has he ever? I believe Mo1 enjoys pulling the rug from under the carpet
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Alba
#114 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 3:55:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
murchr wrote:



Sometimes am shocked by the level of sycophancy that you have. Rao himself confesses to have played a role which he calls "peripheral" (2012) and "central" 2006 why do you try to take that shine from him yet he boasts that he was doing it to fight for "rights and freedoms"? It was Joseph Odigi Obuon who deeply implicated father and son.

The main reason for the coup was that some Luo guys felt left out in the govt and army. Odigi explained it there was no Luo who was in a higher rank than a brigadier, and there were no more than 3 Luo ministers in cabinet.

The initial plotter - note not organizer - was Dianga who was arrested before the coup however that did not deter its moving on tho, Ochuka took over and it flopped. During his trial after the coup was quashed, Ochuka confessed that he acted because there had not been proper presidential elections since independence and because his people had been abandoned by the government. He was also wary of a rumored coup by Kikuyu officers whom he had to beat to the game.

So please dont take that shine away. As for Mo1 forgiving Rao....has he ever? I believe Mo1 enjoys pulling the rug from under the carpet



You are just bitter because your long held propaganda campaign is being exposed as lies. You are blinded by your hatred for RAO that you cannot handle the truth.

Personally I do not care about RAO presidential ambitions. But the 1982 coup is something I am passionate about. I am passionate about telling the truth. I have a relative who was a UoN student at the time.


I have already noted that RAO did indeed play a role in the coup. Everybody knows that so quit stating the obvious. I do not deny that he had a peripheral role, as did Mutunga, Mudavadi, Anyona, Kabatesi, Adungosi and all the other UoN students who supported the coup. You can say they all played a peripheral role by encouraging the coup plotters.

It is correct to state that the Airforce servicemen were disgruntled at tribal discrimination in the armed forces. It is also correct to say that this was their primary motivation.

It is also correct to say that UoN students and staff supported the coup because of the lack of democratic space. Moi and to an extent Kenyatta had basically banned opposition parties under the sedition act. Dissidents were being detained without trial.

What I reject is this idea that is being posited by cluless people that RAO was trying to take over the government and was the primary coup plotter. It is the height of nonsense especially when you consider how poorly the coup was planned.

But even bigger nonsense which annoys me the most is the idea that Moi was benevolent in forgiving the coup supporters. It is clear Moi was the main reason the coup happened. He could have stopped it 2 months prior and saved lives.
murchr
#115 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 6:45:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Alba wrote:
murchr wrote:



Sometimes am shocked by the level of sycophancy that you have. Rao himself confesses to have played a role which he calls "peripheral" (2012) and "central" 2006 why do you try to take that shine from him yet he boasts that he was doing it to fight for "rights and freedoms"? It was Joseph Odigi Obuon who deeply implicated father and son.

The main reason for the coup was that some Luo guys felt left out in the govt and army. Odigi explained it there was no Luo who was in a higher rank than a brigadier, and there were no more than 3 Luo ministers in cabinet.

The initial plotter - note not organizer - was Dianga who was arrested before the coup however that did not deter its moving on tho, Ochuka took over and it flopped. During his trial after the coup was quashed, Ochuka confessed that he acted because there had not been proper presidential elections since independence and because his people had been abandoned by the government. He was also wary of a rumored coup by Kikuyu officers whom he had to beat to the game.

So please dont take that shine away. As for Mo1 forgiving Rao....has he ever? I believe Mo1 enjoys pulling the rug from under the carpet



You are just bitter because your long held propaganda campaign is being exposed as lies. You are blinded by your hatred for RAO that you cannot handle the truth.

Personally I do not care about RAO presidential ambitions. But the 1982 coup is something I am passionate about. I am passionate about telling the truth. I have a relative who was a UoN student at the time.


I have already noted that RAO did indeed play a role in the coup. Everybody knows that so quit stating the obvious. I do not deny that he had a peripheral role, as did Mutunga, Mudavadi, Anyona, Kabatesi, Adungosi and all the other UoN students who supported the coup. You can say they all played a peripheral role by encouraging the coup plotters.

It is correct to state that the Airforce servicemen were disgruntled at tribal discrimination in the armed forces. It is also correct to say that this was their primary motivation.

It is also correct to say that UoN students and staff supported the coup because of the lack of democratic space. Moi and to an extent Kenyatta had basically banned opposition parties under the sedition act. Dissidents were being detained without trial.

What I reject is this idea that is being posited by cluless people that RAO was trying to take over the government and was the primary coup plotter. It is the height of nonsense especially when you consider how poorly the coup was planned.

But even bigger nonsense which annoys me the most is the idea that Moi was benevolent in forgiving the coup supporters. It is clear Moi was the main reason the coup happened. He could have stopped it 2 months prior and saved lives.


Boss the UON staff or lecturers and students were not involved in the coup. They had their own struggles because Ngugi wa Thiong'o had been fired as a Prof. Willy mutunga was involved in distribution leaflets asking students to protest and reject Nyayos...that had nothing to do with the coup infact it happened before the coup. No one says that Rao imagined that he was going to take over the government esp at that time. Ochuka did. He had a curving on his desk indicating that he was to be "The next President of Kenya". Yes, many in the army were disgruntled by the tribal composition, including the Kikuyu but the plotters of this coup were mainly Luo and they gave their reasons.

You need to quit imagining stuff. RAO doesn't deny the fact that he helped plan the coup, he even gives accounts to where meetings were held. I suggest you read his 2 books they might help you.

Lastly, I DO NOT hate RAO on the contrary like the dude alot, can you imagine this democracy without him? I surely enjoy his theatrics alot.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Alba
#116 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 7:03:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
murchr wrote:


Boss the UON staff or lecturers and students were not involved in the coup. They had their own struggles because Ngugi wa Thiong'o had been fired as a Prof. Willy mutunga was involved in distribution leaflets asking students to protest and reject Nyayos...that had nothing to do with the coup infact it happened before the coup. No one says that Rao imagined that he was going to take over the government esp at that time. Ochuka did. He had a curving on his desk indicating that he was to be "The next President of Kenya". Yes, many in the army were disgruntled by the tribal composition, including the Kikuyu but the plotters of this coup were mainly Luo and they gave their reasons.

You need to quit imagining stuff. RAO doesn't deny the fact that he helped plan the coup, he even gives accounts to where meetings were held. I suggest you read his 2 books they might help you.

Lastly, I DO NOT hate RAO on the contrary like the dude alot, can you imagine this democracy without him? I surely enjoy his theatrics alot.


Listen to yourself : If RAO planned the coup then how come Moi with his vast intelligence network was unable to dig up any evidence?

The fact that he does not deny it does not mean anything.

The coup was so poorly planned. It basically amounted to taking over broadcsting house. My take is that if RAO wanted to take over presidency, he would have used his connections in Eastern Europe. This was the height of the cold war and the USSR was eager to stage coups all over Africa.

Numerous people on this site and elsewhere have been insisting that RAO was the mastermind behind the coup. Many even stated that he wanted to become president. Many say Moi was benevolent for forgiving him. This is what I think is rubbish.

Ochuka and his cohorts were doing this coup for themselves. Reports suggest they were disgruntled because Luos were never promoted.

There was supposedly a coup by Luo servicemen and another one being planned by Kikuyu servicemen on August 6. Kikuyus were also disgruntled because their previously privileged position was eroding.

I do not deny that RAO would have wanted a coup to happen. I do not deny that he knew it was about to happen. UoN students and lecturers knew about the coup and all wanted a coup because Moi had suffocated all the democratic space. Even I would have supported a coup. Most dissidents supported the 1982 coup.

As I have said before, the issue of the 1982 coup is very close to me. People do not realize how many people's lives were ruined by Moi after that coup. Most of Ochuka's immediate siblings died mysteriously. The relatives of some of the UoN students were harrassed endlessly.
Lolest!
#117 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 7:52:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Raila's leading apologist believes he could not have been involved as it was poorly planned

The same guy who pulled a Mwau in 2002?

Raila says he was part of the planning. Apologist says Rayila wasnt while relying on UoN sources who believe Madvd could've known and participated in a coup against a govt in which his dad was a minister

The issue should be merits/demerits. Babu's involvement is sure
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
murchr
#118 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 8:06:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Alba wrote:
murchr wrote:


Boss the UON staff or lecturers and students were not involved in the coup. They had their own struggles because Ngugi wa Thiong'o had been fired as a Prof. Willy mutunga was involved in distribution leaflets asking students to protest and reject Nyayos...that had nothing to do with the coup infact it happened before the coup. No one says that Rao imagined that he was going to take over the government esp at that time. Ochuka did. He had a curving on his desk indicating that he was to be "The next President of Kenya". Yes, many in the army were disgruntled by the tribal composition, including the Kikuyu but the plotters of this coup were mainly Luo and they gave their reasons.

You need to quit imagining stuff. RAO doesn't deny the fact that he helped plan the coup, he even gives accounts to where meetings were held. I suggest you read his 2 books they might help you.

Lastly, I DO NOT hate RAO on the contrary like the dude alot, can you imagine this democracy without him? I surely enjoy his theatrics alot.


Listen to yourself : If RAO planned the coup then how come Moi with his vast intelligence network was unable to dig up any evidence?

The fact that he does not deny it does not mean anything.

The coup was so poorly planned. It basically amounted to taking over broadcsting house. My take is that if RAO wanted to take over presidency, he would have used his connections in Eastern Europe. This was the height of the cold war and the USSR was eager to stage coups all over Africa.

Numerous people on this site and elsewhere have been insisting that RAO was the mastermind behind the coup. Many even stated that he wanted to become president. Many say Moi was benevolent for forgiving him. This is what I think is rubbish.

Ochuka and his cohorts were doing this coup for themselves. Reports suggest they were disgruntled because Luos were never promoted.

There was supposedly a coup by Luo servicemen and another one being planned by Kikuyu servicemen on August 6. Kikuyus were also disgruntled because their previously privileged position was eroding.

I do not deny that RAO would have wanted a coup to happen. I do not deny that he knew it was about to happen. UoN students and lecturers knew about the coup and all wanted a coup because Moi had suffocated all the democratic space. Even I would have supported a coup. Most dissidents supported the 1982 coup.


Are you assuming there was no evidence? The evidence was there just that a trial would have caused unwarranted attention and already there was the tribal angle in the issue, punishment by detention/torture seemed to make more sense. Jaramogi knew his phone was tapped and he opted to have meetings out of his office or home.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
TAZ
#119 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2015 2:31:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
Alba wrote:

The coup was so poorly planned. It basically amounted to taking over broadcsting house. My take is that if RAO wanted to take over presidency, he would have used his connections in Eastern Europe. This was the height of the cold war and the USSR was eager to stage coups all over Africa.




I really doubt he was that influential at the time.
Impunity
#120 Posted : Tuesday, August 04, 2015 8:15:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
TAZ wrote:
Alba wrote:

The coup was so poorly planned. It basically amounted to taking over broadcsting house. My take is that if RAO wanted to take over presidency, he would have used his connections in Eastern Europe. This was the height of the cold war and the USSR was eager to stage coups all over Africa.




I really doubt he was that influential at the time.


True,he was a mere welder graduate with no political experience at all.
Portfolio: Sold
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