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Pessimistic view of the future
Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/13/2015 Posts: 73
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@ masukuma.
The bible says in Daniel 12:4, "but as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and KNOWLEDGE WILL INCREASE."
The by-product of that increase in knowledge is what we perceive today as a better standard of living. Many will go back and forth. I don't need to tell you that the world has become a global, interconnected village. So what we're seeing today is not a fluke but a series of events that were foreseen before the foundations of the world were placed. God in his omnipresence allowed Daniel to see beyond the limits of time, and warn us so we can be prepared for the end times. We can finally say that we have arrived. In fact we're living on borrowed time!
The increase in modern knowledge is not a good thing as it does not glorify God. Today, many are "puffed up" from the devil's modern civilization and think they don't need God anymore. At the beginning of time, Cain (the spawn of Satan) built the first city. Today, Cain's descendants aggressively invest in earthly treasures that shall be destroyed, instead of putting their wealth heavenly places where there are no thieves, mold or rust.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:
I am also glad to live today. For entirely different reasons from you though.
For all your preferences, I note, and hasten to reinforce, that you have a regret about it. That is my point.
Good for you! I would only regret if my kids or my kids kids would not see elephants but it's not a big deal... it won't be a big deal for them... in much the same way it's not a big deal for me not to have seen the dodo or marsupial lion or tiger... Stop back tracking, bwana. We must talk about this elephant in this room. Initially you said "my only regret would be that my kids or their kids will not get to see a live elephant." Now you say you would regret if your kids or (my) kids would not see elephants. Are you realizing that the present state is not good unless remedial action is taken? What does that tell you about the present state? And who or what gives you the right to extrapolate your opinions and beliefs onto your children?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:
I am also glad to live today. For entirely different reasons from you though.
For all your preferences, I note, and hasten to reinforce, that you have a regret about it. That is my point.
Good for you! I would only regret if my kids or my kids kids would not see elephants but it's not a big deal... it won't be a big deal for them... in much the same way it's not a big deal for me not to have seen the dodo or marsupial lion or tiger... Stop back tracking, bwana. We must talk about this elephant in this room. Initially you said "my only regret would be that my kids or their kids will not get to see a live elephant." Now you say you would regret if your kids or (my) kids would not see elephants. Are you realizing that the present state is not good unless remedial action is taken? What does that tell you about the present state? And who or what gives you the right to extrapolate your opinions and beliefs onto your children? don't lure me into your semantical debate... call @symbols and @tycho for that... I said "would" not "is" and I guess that settles that. that thing about extrapolating my beliefs and worldviews to my kids... I GUESS THAT'S WHAT PARENTS DO! makali1 wrote:@ masukuma.
The bible says in Daniel 12:4, "but as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and KNOWLEDGE WILL INCREASE."
The by-product of that increase in knowledge is what we perceive today as a better standard of living. Many will go back and forth. I don't need to tell you that the world has become a global, interconnected village. So what we're seeing today is not a fluke but a series of events that were foreseen before the foundations of the world were placed. God in his omnipresence allowed Daniel to see beyond the limits of time, and warn us so we can be prepared for the end times. We can finally say that we have arrived. In fact we're living on borrowed time!
The increase in modern knowledge is not a good thing as it does not glorify God. Today, many are "puffed up" from the devil's modern civilization and think they don't need God anymore. At the beginning of time, Cain (the spawn of Satan) built the first city. Today, Cain's descendants aggressively invest in earthly treasures that shall be destroyed, instead of putting their wealth heavenly places where there are no thieves, mold or rust. @makali... we have been having a steady increase of knowledge and I put it to you that at the time of Jesus Knowledge had increased when compared with that of Daniel... it had also increased when you compare the amount of knowledge at the time of Jesus and at the time Emperor Constantine called the larger meeting... if you compare that with the dark ages or early last millenium.. I am pretty sure there was some guy in a street corner with a bible shouting the end is nigh (yes they used that word) when they saw the united kingdom having the sun not set on it quoting the same scripture... he figured.. IT CANNOT POSSIBLY GET MORE CONNECTED THAT THIS... I CAN SEND A TELEGRAM TO FIJI! So my friend it's all relative. Knowledge has increased today more than yesterday. the fact that we live in an interconnected world does not mean... THIS IS THE FARTHEST IT CAN GO! At one point we had nothing... then someone built the wheel... that was leveraged to bring forth something else. e.t.c. and as for the spawn of satan.... well... that's your take... wewe baki hapo... start your stop watch... tutarudi hapa hapa.... the tell-tell sign about this whole end time debate is always.. WHO IS BUYING IT! Who is the most probable customer? Well the guys selling it are certainly not buying it! Why are you the customer? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:
I am also glad to live today. For entirely different reasons from you though.
For all your preferences, I note, and hasten to reinforce, that you have a regret about it. That is my point.
Good for you! I would only regret if my kids or my kids kids would not see elephants but it's not a big deal... it won't be a big deal for them... in much the same way it's not a big deal for me not to have seen the dodo or marsupial lion or tiger... Stop back tracking, bwana. We must talk about this elephant in this room. Initially you said "my only regret would be that my kids or their kids will not get to see a live elephant." Now you say you would regret if your kids or (my) kids would not see elephants. Are you realizing that the present state is not good unless remedial action is taken? What does that tell you about the present state? And who or what gives you the right to extrapolate your opinions and beliefs onto your children? don't lure me into your semantical debate... call @symbols and @tycho for that... I said "would" not "is" and I guess that settles that. that thing about extrapolating my beliefs and worldviews to my kids... I GUESS THAT'S WHAT PARENTS DO! This response, about what parents do, I asked in retrospect to assertions that parents should not influence their children's beliefs, a favorite line of the not so religiously inclined who are tired of 'worrying for the future'. I guess that settles it. Thank you for your indulgence.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:
I am also glad to live today. For entirely different reasons from you though.
For all your preferences, I note, and hasten to reinforce, that you have a regret about it. That is my point.
Good for you! I would only regret if my kids or my kids kids would not see elephants but it's not a big deal... it won't be a big deal for them... in much the same way it's not a big deal for me not to have seen the dodo or marsupial lion or tiger... Stop back tracking, bwana. We must talk about this elephant in this room. Initially you said "my only regret would be that my kids or their kids will not get to see a live elephant." Now you say you would regret if your kids or (my) kids would not see elephants. Are you realizing that the present state is not good unless remedial action is taken? What does that tell you about the present state? And who or what gives you the right to extrapolate your opinions and beliefs onto your children? don't lure me into your semantical debate... call @symbols and @tycho for that... I said "would" not "is" and I guess that settles that. that thing about extrapolating my beliefs and worldviews to my kids... I GUESS THAT'S WHAT PARENTS DO! This response, about what parents do, I asked in retrospect to assertions that parents should not influence their children's beliefs, a favorite line of the not so religiously inclined who are tired of 'worrying for the future'. I guess that settles it. Thank you for your indulgence. yeah.. I was talking about my 2.8 kids... you guys are free to sell them all the pessimism you can at the same time schizophrenically tell them to read and do entrepreneurship for a better future - it's your choice! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@masukuma, it sounds like believing in end times and living life to the fullest are mutually exclusive! If the issue is scaremongering and doing an end times watch for every minute thing happening, then I am with you. There were rumours kitambi that KRA PIN was the mark of the beast. Some Adventist publications I saw used to claim that Pope John Paul II was the Antichrist. Some part of that book had summed up the Latin title for the Pope-Vicarius Filii Dei-and it summed up to the number 666! I am with you if you mean we must not go into such. But Christians must consider their scriptures too.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Peter's prophecy about how lethargic we will become about these matters(2 Peter 3) 3 Above all, you must understand that in the
last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
But then as the scoffers scoff, remember: 8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]This does not stop us from living our lives. Study, Eat, live, love, work, make money & play but remember to do so within the guidelines what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:@masukuma, it sounds like believing in end times and living life to the fullest are mutually exclusive!
If the issue is scaremongering and doing an end times watch for every minute thing happening, then I am with you. There were rumours kitambi that KRA PIN was the mark of the beast. Some Adventist publications I saw used to claim that Pope John Paul II was the Antichrist. Some part of that book had summed up the Latin title for the Pope-Vicarius Filii Dei-and it summed up to the number 666!
I am with you if you mean we must not go into such. But Christians must consider their scriptures too. @Lolest you are starting to see where I am coming from... that KRA pin nonsense is pretty much the same stuff that is happening now... pick some random scripture and project it forward into a new thing that is happening now and make people look at life with very negative glasses. I once sat and asked myself... OUT OF ALL THINGS WE ARE BEING TOLD....WHAT CAN I CONTROL? WHAT IS IN MY HANDS? Mara Pope is the Antichrist... then Obama... (he is heading out)... for some time it was Rabin the Israeli prime minister who signed that deal and the fellow was shot!.... we keep on parsing today and the future using texts we were given. Let's say the endtimes are kesho and the world is ending (whatever that means).... as mwalimu would ask...HARAFU? UTA DO? believing in the endtimes or not does not change whether they are coming or not... and each generation has always believed it was their period simply by looking at the reality of their life times with the same old goggles... if it's scripture it's the plain and direct ones.. like loving your neighbour one... raising a responsible just generation... not looking at obscure scriptures and forcing them into today and calling it a 'revelation' then it passes and you amend your scripture. Or even worse going around like huyu jamaa wa mandevu calling on earth quakes and tsunamis .... and when one tokeas... everyone says.. YOU SEE! He prophesied! no he just said it in all countries and when an earthquake tokead... he was validated. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Peter's prophecy about how lethargic we will become about these matters(2 Peter 3)
3 Above all, you must understand that in the
last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
But then as the scoffers scoff, remember:
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
This does not stop us from living our lives. Study, Eat, live, love, work, make money & play but remember to do so within the guidelines
what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
yeah... but who was he writing to? who say's it was to you (a black man in Nairobi)? or to those who died along time ago... or some future generation? what makes you think it is you? he was actually addressing real concerns that were there during his time... people were thinking Jesus is coming soon and were getting tired of waiting.... I can bet that every generation since he wrote it thought it was them being addressed and their time ended... and the next said... SURELY IT MUST BE US! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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masukuma wrote:Lolest! wrote:Peter's prophecy about how lethargic we will become about these matters(2 Peter 3)
3 Above all, you must understand that in the
last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
But then as the scoffers scoff, remember:
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
This does not stop us from living our lives. Study, Eat, live, love, work, make money & play but remember to do so within the guidelines
what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
yeah... but who was he writing to? who say's it was to you (a black man in Nairobi)? or to those who died along time ago... or some future generation? what makes you think it is you? he was actually addressing real concerns that were there during his time... people were thinking Jesus is coming soon and were getting tired of waiting.... I can bet that every generation since he wrote it thought it was them being addressed and their time ended... and the next said... SURELY IT MUST BE US! They had every reason to want the saviour back soonest But you raise the pertinent question, 'Were the words meant for me?' If Peter followed Jesus' orders, then the words would be mine, meant for me in Kianjokoma Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
-Frm Mtt 28
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