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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:
So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?
@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not. Even Jesus himself says so:Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, " Then who can be saved?" Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, " WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." So how will you get saved? By doing good Quran 2:25 " And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you. Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people? Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus? The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus. So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you. Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you? It was the Almighty's will to save the Israelites and Christ. What makes you think you can possibly know what the Almighty's next will is? All I am asking is his followers believe that he saves. Do you, Guru, sister, believe that Allah saves? If you do believe he saves, has he saved you? Are you saved?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:
So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?
@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not. Even Jesus himself says so:Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, " Then who can be saved?" Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, " WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." So how will you get saved? By doing good Quran 2:25 " And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you. Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people? Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus? The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus. So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you. Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you? It was the Almighty's will to save the Israelites and Christ. What makes you think you can possibly know what the Almighty's next will is? All I am asking is his followers believe that he saves. Do you, Guru, sister, believe that Allah saves? If you do believe he saves, has he saved you? Are you saved? I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means... No single Muslim can believe such nonsense. I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Define "saved"
You don't know? I bring no new definition. I mean it just as it is used in the following passages. AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel, you asked: Can Allah save?
Yes, of course! See examples below.
1. Allah saved the children of Israel from Pharaoh:
"O children of Israel! Remember those blessings of Mine with which I graced you, and how I favored you above all other people. And guard yourselves against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be received from it, nor will they be helped. And remember the time when We saved you from Pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing only your women — which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer; and when We cleft the sea before you, and thus saved you and caused Pharaoh's people to drown before your very eyes." (Surah Baqarah ch 2:47-50)
2. Allah saved Jesus from the hands of his enemies, the Romans (conspired with Jews):
"And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah," but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they killed that man) and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (Jesus, son of Mary): But Allah raised him (Jesus) up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens).
And Allah is Ever All Powerful, All Wise." (Quran Ch 4:157-159)
@muriel, still you've not defined it. Because I see we are not talking about the same thing. So define it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved? @guru said "I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means.." She asks if that is what you mean by "being saved". You see, you have to define what you mean if you are genuinely looking for an answer.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:guru267 wrote:
I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...
No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.
I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question. Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,, What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save? Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved? The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved? And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved? The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being. Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel, still you've not defined it. Because I see we are not talking about the same thing. So define it.
AlphDoti wrote:
@guru said "I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means.."
She asks if that is what you mean by "being saved".
You see, you have to define what you mean if you are genuinely looking for an answer.
I decline the task of defining a word that Allah uses not once, not twice but severally in the Qur'an. It is not my job. I'm not Allah's scribe. Allah, Mohammed or you his followers should be able to tell and explain what it means. Whatever the meaning, my question is whether you believe Allah or not. Allah says clearly he saved some people yet you cannot believe that he saves people.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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guru267 wrote:
The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved?
And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved?
The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being.
I have not asked from what they were saved. Neither have I asked why you need to be saved. All I am asking is whether you believe Allah saves and if you are saved. But from your rhetorical questions you seem to imply whereas it is true that Allah saved others (from whatever), you do not believe that Allah can save you. Unless you have anything to add, I will end my questions to you and accept your answer. I turn to Alphdoti for he has not given any indication if he believes Allah or not.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;" So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved? But Guru says Allah does not have duty to any human being. So Hamburglar can do all the good things but in the end Allah might discard him like used tissue. Hence Qur'an 2:25 might not be true after all and should not be anticipated to be reality.
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