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Scubidu		#81 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 1:32:13 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		@wa_ithaka. you gotta stop with the google thing dude, better to ask those in the profession, but will look into the issues u mentioned. I have a cool dvd someone sent me on banking and economics, if u want to see it email me. @vvs. when I referred to accounting, I was not referring to capital, I was actually referring to processes of making loans and creating deposits (thus impact on core capital ratio). But you're right these regulations were devised by the BIS long ago in the late 80s. I'm not aware of the minimum time frame on debt as 'capital' (will look into it). I just read an NIC annual report and Tier 2 capital includes subordinated debt not exceeding 50% of core capital...so KCB will look at raising no more than 11b if it wants to include it as capital, every reason why they should issue it in tranches...so wa_ithaka may have a genuine point (but then again that wasn't the debate). “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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VituVingiSana		#82 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 11:03:42 PM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,347 Location: Nairobi		@scubidu - Only non-callable (by the bondholder) debt is used as 'debt capital' & I think (not 100% sure) but any amount due within 12 months cant be used/considered as 'debt capital'... Callable debt/bonds (of course, many variations) generally become due in less than 12 months if called... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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Scubidu		#83 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:24:44 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		vvs. You got a source for this. How many companies have issued callable bonds, apart from the former Celtel Kenya? And do you think KCB or banks in general would want to put a call option on their corporate debt, don't see why? “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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kizee		#84 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:25:43 AM
Rank: Member Joined: 1/9/2008 Posts: 537		isnt the kengen bond callable?
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Scubidu		#85 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:32:23 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		I would have thought it would have been an essential feature of the bond. If it was, it wasn't mentioned (loudly). “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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VituVingiSana		#86 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:37:50 AM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,347 Location: Nairobi		Scubidu wrote: vvs. You got a source for this. How many companies have issued callable bonds, apart from the former Celtel Kenya? And do you think KCB or banks in general would want to put a call option on their corporate debt, don't see why? I don't deal in bonds but I am sure there may be 1-2 callable bonds. I think MRM are callable. The call option gives bondholders additional 'security' or seniority thus have a lower yield. The only reason for firms to give a put option to the bondholders is to lower the yield/rate they pay. BTW, the KenGen Bond does have a (somewhat) 'call' feature except the the Call Option is KenGen's... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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Wa_ithaka		#87 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:42:56 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi		Scubidu-tx for the dvd offer. I've picked up most of ma knowledge from bartalk so there might be something in it. Lakini I rarely get time to watch dvds. Scubidu, vvs. One thing you may need to bear in mind is the fact that the forcoming Basel 3 will almost certainly tighten the definition of capital and this may mean narrowing it down to sharholder capital and retained earnings. Ofcourse, CBK has not even adopted Basel 2 so we have a long way to go... The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Scubidu		#88 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:08:49 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi		Wa_ithaka. Wow, I didn't know they had Basel 3 rules lined up. No prob on the DVDs-I can't wait for the new Wall Street movie to come out (i hope it's better than the old one). @vvs. what's the (somewhat) 'call' feature? I would have noticed that cos I read that thing quite slowly months ago (b4 I sold all my holdings). “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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VituVingiSana		#89 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:35:28 PM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,347 Location: Nairobi		Wall Street is a classic... Beating the original will be tough... Gordon Gekko... "Greed is GOOD"... great flik! I dont have the KenGen Bond Prospectus on me but KenGen had the option of retiring part of the bond early on (I think after the initial 2 years)... Plus the bond was designed to allow KenGen 'retire' a small portion (6.25%) every 6 months after the 1st 2 years... Or something like that... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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Gordon Gekko		#90 Posted : Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:11:18 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/27/2008 Posts: 3,760		@vvs, Michael Douglas is now 23 years older. He cant surely be as sharp as he was in the first Wall Street...
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