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beatification of Sister Irene Nyaatha
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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FRM2011 wrote:This thread has brought out an interesting and yet worrying trend. A good number of people are beginning to critically examine the religious dogma we are fed and asking very pertinent questions.
It would seem faith is just not enough to fill the missing gaps. I think it would be safe to predict that in another 50 years, the influence of religion will have diminished significantly. Note this is different from the rise of atheism.
In Ireland, the Catholic church is yet to come to terms with the results of the referendum allowing gay marriages. The pro-gay campaigners won 62% of the popular vote. And yet the young voters who voted yes to gay marriages have gone through an education system that strongly emphasizes the christian values.
And why would you think that a worrying trend? It is by critical examination and asking the same pertinent questions, that led me, and many others, to Christ Jesus. A conscious well thought out decision. As for your example, its no surprise... knowing how the devil is relentless and man weak. It happened in the days of Noah, when only a family, IN THE WHOLE WORLD, was God-fearing... happened in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah... and as prophesied will be the case in the days of Revelation. That, not-withstanding, doesn't change Christianity. As it was, is and will be.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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The questions raised here go back to the ages where Christians disagreed esp on the teachings of Paul and the teachings of Peter who became the first pope. Protestants emphasize on the teachings of Paul and even they try to twist the words of Jesus referring him as the rock of the church. The fact that some books were shunned, leaves alot to be desired. Good thing some are now popping up. The Gospel of Judas, The Gospel of Mary The gospel of Thomas etc I'll leave this one here Quote:Galatians 2:11-14King James Version (KJV)
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:I remember meeting one guy outside Eger (Njokerio where I had gone to eat some meat when in college), We used to call him "uncle" and not the "uncle" most egertonians used to go eat meat from. So when we started talking faith matters... he said kanisa yao ina-believe in "continuous" revelation. the same way Paul, John, Peter, James, Luke e.t.c wali"funuliwa" they believe in the same - it was blasphemous for me to hear such things.. hata hiyo nyama sikukula vizuri but as I examined life and history I realized something... who decided that the 66 books make the scriptures? and more importantly... WHY? if the scriptures are an authority we need to ask ourselves ... who wrote and compiled them? it is not sufficient to quote the bible about it's sanctity coz that is spaghetti logic i.e. the bible says Quote:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
and thus since the bible is scripture we say it's all the above since the bible says it's all the above.... ad infinitum. I guess the whole disagreement above stems from 2 things, 1) what does the bible say? or even better which bible says what on the subject matter? 2) who says that the bible should be the sole authority on christian spiritual matters? what is the place of church history? catechism e.t.c.? Kama akina paul wali'Funuliwa' who says ufunuo uliishia hapo? who says it must be consistent with what they were told? that was them... sasa je? You are saying there exists a modern or contemporary individual who receives/received inspiration as did akina Paul? I am saying... who said that akina Paul were the only people who were to receive inspiration? hiyo mlango ilifungwa lini? na nani? Taratibu, ndugu. You do not have to be suspicious and over-analytical of my intentions all the time. I agree with you, if that helps.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Makali1 wrote:Muriel wrote:You are saying there exists a modern or contemporary individual who receives/received inspiration as did akina Paul?
'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT. Acts 2:17-18 i reckon it's been the last day s for quite some time now This is where some analysis could have helped ,,, (Sorry, could not help myself, this jab)
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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whiteowl wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:I remember meeting one guy outside Eger (Njokerio where I had gone to eat some meat when in college), We used to call him "uncle" and not the "uncle" most egertonians used to go eat meat from. So when we started talking faith matters... he said kanisa yao ina-believe in "continuous" revelation. the same way Paul, John, Peter, James, Luke e.t.c wali"funuliwa" they believe in the same - it was blasphemous for me to hear such things.. hata hiyo nyama sikukula vizuri but as I examined life and history I realized something... who decided that the 66 books make the scriptures? and more importantly... WHY? if the scriptures are an authority we need to ask ourselves ... who wrote and compiled them? it is not sufficient to quote the bible about it's sanctity coz that is spaghetti logic i.e. the bible says Quote:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
and thus since the bible is scripture we say it's all the above since the bible says it's all the above.... ad infinitum. I guess the whole disagreement above stems from 2 things, 1) what does the bible say? or even better which bible says what on the subject matter? 2) who says that the bible should be the sole authority on christian spiritual matters? what is the place of church history? catechism e.t.c.? Kama akina paul wali'Funuliwa' who says ufunuo uliishia hapo? who says it must be consistent with what they were told? that was them... sasa je? You are saying there exists a modern or contemporary individual who receives/received inspiration as did akina Paul? Yes, not so long ago, Kamlesh become Paul Laugh. Anyway, naturally, there are other criteria to be met.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Lolest! wrote:murchr wrote:
Your answer is up there, make prayers and supplications to ALL SAINTS. Man cannot be a saint since he has sinned. Your pastor is not a saint
 Make supplication FOR not TO all saints. Check that again bro! Once again, Acts 9 Quote:Ananias Baptizes Saul
10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”
And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.” who are these saints Saul was persecuting? He must have been persecuting dead people if the living can't be saints! Yes, Lolest. Little words like to, for, at, in etc seem not to be much and are usually skipped over by readers but then again they make substantial differences.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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murchr wrote:The questions raised here go back to the ages where Christians disagreed esp on the teachings of Paul and the teachings of Peter who became the first pope. Protestants emphasize on the teachings of Paul and even they try to twist the words of Jesus referring him as the rock of the church. The fact that some books were shunned, leaves alot to be desired. Good thing some are now popping up. The Gospel of Judas, The Gospel of Mary The gospel of Thomas etc I'll leave this one here Quote:Galatians 2:11-14King James Version (KJV)
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Murchr What is your opinion on the ordination of women as priests and pastors?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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As it is, to be a saint, one has to have done and lived a holy life.The current pope i hear once worked in a bar before becoming a priest this we know because there have been people who have given out testimonials. As for sister Irene,she died in 1930. If we were to find out how her life was, the people who would give out testimonies are almost in their 100s.So what did the catholic church base their beatification on?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Makali1 wrote:Muriel wrote:You are saying there exists a modern or contemporary individual who receives/received inspiration as did akina Paul?
'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT. Acts 2:17-18 i reckon it's been the last day s for quite some time now This is where some analysis could have helped ,,, (Sorry, could not help myself, this jab) people have been saying it's been coming for a while Matthew 16:27 wrote:
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. 28"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Mark 9:1 wrote:And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power. Luke 9:27 wrote:I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God
hata hao walingoja sana.... it was coming... coming... coming... 1980 years still coming All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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masukuma wrote:Muriel wrote:masukuma wrote:Makali1 wrote:Muriel wrote:You are saying there exists a modern or contemporary individual who receives/received inspiration as did akina Paul?
'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT. Acts 2:17-18 i reckon it's been the last day s for quite some time now This is where some analysis could have helped ,,, (Sorry, could not help myself, this jab) people have been saying it's been coming for a while Matthew 16:27 wrote:
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. 28"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Mark 9:1 wrote:And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power. Luke 9:27 wrote:I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God
hata hao walingoja sana.... it was coming... coming... coming... 1980 years still coming All those standing there were all human beings?
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