Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Living entirely off the stock market
Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/23/2015 Posts: 16 Location: mtandao
|
Sober wrote:maka wrote:dunkang wrote:Just like in a Casino, trying to live of the NSE is purely gambling. And as you already know, only the house wins (read brokers). I personally trade at the NSE as a hobby.
If you meant waiting for annual dividends, BOSS, you will need a lot of capital, the div yields are not that good. Really?I have made quite a bit out of trading...I have clients who have made astronomical figures.... A couple of things must be clear before you start living off stocks: 1. What gains are you looking at per year? 2. The gains are a % of what you put in 3. what happens when stocks dip? 4. You should 'eat' the gains only not the capital 5. what is the exit point for each counter? 6. You must diversify... If those are clearly noted and commented on, then whether the answer is Yes or No will come out clearly Those who have been at NSE for close to 10 yrs or longer can shed light. What was their rate of return? If say, the avg is 64%, and you need 100k/month, then lets calculate how much to invest. 100k/month=1.2mn per annum. 1.2Mn/0.64 =1.875Mn. This means you need to invest 1.875mn. To be safe when stocks dip, don't eat all returns, you may consider investing 4Mn so that you get 2.56Mn profit, then eat your 1.2Mn/yr and reinvest the remaining profits Compounding
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
|
growing wrote:Sober wrote:maka wrote:dunkang wrote:Just like in a Casino, trying to live of the NSE is purely gambling. And as you already know, only the house wins (read brokers). I personally trade at the NSE as a hobby.
If you meant waiting for annual dividends, BOSS, you will need a lot of capital, the div yields are not that good. Really?I have made quite a bit out of trading...I have clients who have made astronomical figures.... A couple of things must be clear before you start living off stocks: 1. What gains are you looking at per year? 2. The gains are a % of what you put in 3. what happens when stocks dip? 4. You should 'eat' the gains only not the capital 5. what is the exit point for each counter? 6. You must diversify... If those are clearly noted and commented on, then whether the answer is Yes or No will come out clearly Those who have been at NSE for close to 10 yrs or longer can shed light. What was their rate of return? If say, the avg is 64%, and you need 100k/month, then lets calculate how much to invest. 100k/month=1.2mn per annum. 1.2Mn/0.64 =1.875Mn. This means you need to invest 1.875mn. To be safe when stocks dip, don't eat all returns, you may consider investing 4Mn so that you get 2.56Mn profit, then eat your 1.2Mn/yr and reinvest the remaining profits That is why personally I quoted 5 million. 5 million and extensive knowledge you will survive. But you have to know what you are doing. Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
|
|
Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/23/2015 Posts: 16 Location: mtandao
|
MaichBlack wrote:growing wrote:Sober wrote:maka wrote:dunkang wrote:Just like in a Casino, trying to live of the NSE is purely gambling. And as you already know, only the house wins (read brokers). I personally trade at the NSE as a hobby.
If you meant waiting for annual dividends, BOSS, you will need a lot of capital, the div yields are not that good. Really?I have made quite a bit out of trading...I have clients who have made astronomical figures.... A couple of things must be clear before you start living off stocks: 1. What gains are you looking at per year? 2. The gains are a % of what you put in 3. what happens when stocks dip? 4. You should 'eat' the gains only not the capital 5. what is the exit point for each counter? 6. You must diversify... If those are clearly noted and commented on, then whether the answer is Yes or No will come out clearly Those who have been at NSE for close to 10 yrs or longer can shed light. What was their rate of return? If say, the avg is 64%, and you need 100k/month, then lets calculate how much to invest. 100k/month=1.2mn per annum. 1.2Mn/0.64 =1.875Mn. This means you need to invest 1.875mn. To be safe when stocks dip, don't eat all returns, you may consider investing 4Mn so that you get 2.56Mn profit, then eat your 1.2Mn/yr and reinvest the remaining profits That is why personally I quoted 5 million. 5 million and extensive knowledge you will survive. But you have to know what you are doing. @MaichBlack exactly! Compounding
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 8/14/2009 Posts: 244
|
wkirumba wrote:Is it possible to live entirely off the stock markets and what does it entail?
YES: You invest now and wait for 25 years to live off stocks.
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 8/14/2009 Posts: 244
|
stock.enigma wrote:wkirumba wrote:Is it possible to live entirely off the stock markets and what does it entail?
YES: You invest now and wait for 25 years to live off stocks.
I have been in the NSE for 20 yrs now. I can hardly live off stocks. But if you mix with real estate, in 25 years, with a modest and consistent portfolio balancing, YES YOU CAN.
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
|
I will use Safaricom shares as an example and will assume you are looking at 100k per month and will also assume that the dividend will remain at 0.64 per share for you to earn a divident of 1.2 million bob per year from Safcom you will have to buy 1,875,000 ordinary shares. Going by todays price of shillings 16.30 you be required to invest kshs. 30,562,500 (1,875,000 * 16.30) for you to earn 100k per month in the future. If you boarded this bus in 2010 when a share was trading at 2 bob, then kshs. 3,750,000 would have done it for you if all factors remain constant (no share price surges, no lower dividend) then 100k will be guaranteed forever. An if inflation will remain the same forever you will live the same lifestyle forever.Unfortunately in life nothing is constant....it rained on Monday but it has not rained today. As someone has pointed out.......have a very keen look at the prices today, do some research. Do some cherry picking and look for cash to buy Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
|
|
Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/23/2015 Posts: 16 Location: mtandao
|
If you bought centum 42000 shares at 44.5 = 1.869Mn (PE @ 9.8) and sold them at 72 (PE @ 16) = 3.024Mn, you would have made approx 1.1Mn Compounding
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 8/14/2009 Posts: 244
|
Fyatu wrote:I will use Safaricom shares as an example and will assume you are looking at 100k per month and will also assume that the dividend will remain at 0.64 per share
for you to earn a divident of 1.2 million bob per year from Safcom you will have to buy 1,875,000 ordinary shares.
Going by todays price of shillings 16.30 you be required to invest kshs. 30,562,500 (1,875,000 * 16.30) for you to earn 100k per month in the future.
If you boarded this bus in 2010 when a share was trading at 2 bob, then kshs. 3,750,000 would have done it for you if all factors remain constant (no share price surges, no lower dividend) then 100k will be guaranteed forever. An if inflation will remain the same forever you will live the same lifestyle forever.Unfortunately in life nothing is constant....it rained on Monday but it has not rained today.
As someone has pointed out.......have a very keen look at the prices today, do some research. Do some cherry picking and look for cash to buy Suppose you have the Ksh 30.5 million cash. Would you not put it in a fixed deposit account. Suppose you are offered an interest of 10%, you will make Ksh 3 million a year. Suppose you are disciplined consumer, you take your Ksh 1.2 million a year for your living expenses and re-invest the balance of Ksh 1.8 million. In year 2 you will increase your fixed deposit to Ksh 32.3 million. Essentially, you deposit will continue growing year after year while you are living on interest income. How about that??
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
|
yes Warren buffet does I may be wrong..but then I could be right
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/10/2010 Posts: 1,001 Location: River Road
|
Having 30.5m and living on 1.2m a year now that's called being a miser. With good trading that 32.5m should be around 45-55m in 2 years time.
@wkirumba yes you can but with proper stock analysis and leverage. I have been living off my capital gains the last two years. You must learn leverage and deleverage
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
|
stock.enigma wrote:Fyatu wrote:I will use Safaricom shares as an example and will assume you are looking at 100k per month and will also assume that the dividend will remain at 0.64 per share
for you to earn a divident of 1.2 million bob per year from Safcom you will have to buy 1,875,000 ordinary shares.
Going by todays price of shillings 16.30 you be required to invest kshs. 30,562,500 (1,875,000 * 16.30) for you to earn 100k per month in the future.
If you boarded this bus in 2010 when a share was trading at 2 bob, then kshs. 3,750,000 would have done it for you if all factors remain constant (no share price surges, no lower dividend) then 100k will be guaranteed forever. An if inflation will remain the same forever you will live the same lifestyle forever.Unfortunately in life nothing is constant....it rained on Monday but it has not rained today.
As someone has pointed out.......have a very keen look at the prices today, do some research. Do some cherry picking and look for cash to buy Suppose you have the Ksh 30.5 million cash. Would you not put it in a fixed deposit account. Suppose you are offered an interest of 10%, you will make Ksh 3 million a year. Suppose you are disciplined consumer, you take your Ksh 1.2 million a year for your living expenses and re-invest the balance of Ksh 1.8 million. In year 2 you will increase your fixed deposit to Ksh 32.3 million. Essentially, you deposit will continue growing year after year while you are living on interest income. How about that?? This looks even much more better. I was just trying to give an example of how one can conservatively live off the stock market...At this rate Safcom dividend might clock 2 bob in the near future. If 1 US dollar is @ 96 bob it means Safcom profit was a little bit over 400 million dollars. Surely Safaricom will be making over 1 billion USD PAT very very soon...but i digress Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
|
It's a risky life for sure. You should ask this question during a bear and you will likely get very different responses. Now people are happy coz the market has been up for a while. Wait until people lose money for a year straight. I think it's not a good idea - firstly you're exposing yourself to a lot of anxiety with the ups and downs of the market. Next you're spending your life gaming. A better approach is to invest your money but have a stable job during the process. So you know the basics are always taken care of. You should realize that people DO LOSE money in the stock market. The guys who are still in the stock market are the lucky ones who didn't lose money. The rest of them don't want to be seen anywhere close to the NSE.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
|
mv_ufanisi wrote:It's a risky life for sure. You should ask this question during a bear and you will likely get very different responses. Now people are happy coz the market has been up for a while. Wait until people lose money for a year straight. I think it's not a good idea - firstly you're exposing yourself to a lot of anxiety with the ups and downs of the market. Next you're spending your life gaming. A better approach is to invest your money but have a stable job during the process. So you know the basics are always taken care of. You should realize that people DO LOSE money in the stock market. The guys who are still in the stock market are the lucky ones who didn't lose money. The rest of them don't want to be seen anywhere close to the NSE. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly! In gambling, only the house wins. NEVER EVER BUY STOCKS USING YOUR GROCERY MONEY. You will just be troubling your heart and mind all the time if you decide to take that route. Let stocks trading be a part time occupation or a hobby, not the primary source of livelihood. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
|
ike wrote:it could be possible with the right tools, but from a humanistic perspective it'd probably be the most dehumanizing career?? imagine being holed up in a room trading numbers...you'd wake up at 60 and realize you never contributed anything to humanity... so maybe its best as a hobby There is no need to be holed in a room in this age of technology.You can even trade stocks from a mobile app.You can make maximum returns with minimum effort.Besides markets like the NSE don't allow day trading so there is no need to be fixated on minute by minute transactions.How do you measure "contribution to humanity"? Are guys doing 9 to 5 instead of stock trading give a better contribution?
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
My stocks portfolio gives me KShs 20,000 - 30,000 in dividends per year. Can i live exclusively on that amount? The answer is No. I guess if my portfolio was 12-20M of well chosen dividend stocks, i could sustain my current lifestyle from dividends alone. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
|
sparkly wrote:My stocks portfolio gives me KShs 20,000 - 30,000 in dividends per year.
Can i live exclusively on that amount? The answer is No.
I guess if my portfolio was 12-20M of well chosen dividend stocks, i could sustain my current lifestyle from dividends alone. And that is where you are headed. A thousand mile journey... Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
|
MaichBlack wrote:sparkly wrote:My stocks portfolio gives me KShs 20,000 - 30,000 in dividends per year.
Can i live exclusively on that amount? The answer is No.
I guess if my portfolio was 12-20M of well chosen dividend stocks, i could sustain my current lifestyle from dividends alone. And that is where you are headed. A thousand mile journey... Its my 20 something year plan to live off the stock market, But in addition fixed income and real estate to withstand any shocks. So we are looking at >30M of todays money value The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
|
Aguytrying wrote:MaichBlack wrote:sparkly wrote:My stocks portfolio gives me KShs 20,000 - 30,000 in dividends per year.
Can i live exclusively on that amount? The answer is No.
I guess if my portfolio was 12-20M of well chosen dividend stocks, i could sustain my current lifestyle from dividends alone. And that is where you are headed. A thousand mile journey... Its my 20 something year plan to live off the stock market, But in addition fixed income and real estate to withstand any shocks. So we are looking at >30M of todays money value I promised myself long long time ago that I will never Adebayor my kids!!! I want to be the kind of grandfather who gives the grand kids bankers cheques for their fee once in a while when they come visiting and also spoil them a bit - buy them stuff their parents might never buy them (sometimes pissing off the parents in the process. He he he) You cannot afford to be a broke old man! It's one thing to be a broke young man (with hopes and possibilities ahead of him) and it is totally a different story to be a broke old man!! It is even worse if you used to have your own money. To achieve financial independence later in life, you must make plans and act on them now. Whatever the plan, you had better be able to earn a living without working in your later years! Stocks, real estate, a mix, whatever!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
|
MaichBlack wrote:Aguytrying wrote:MaichBlack wrote:sparkly wrote:My stocks portfolio gives me KShs 20,000 - 30,000 in dividends per year.
Can i live exclusively on that amount? The answer is No.
I guess if my portfolio was 12-20M of well chosen dividend stocks, i could sustain my current lifestyle from dividends alone. And that is where you are headed. A thousand mile journey... Its my 20 something year plan to live off the stock market, But in addition fixed income and real estate to withstand any shocks. So we are looking at >30M of todays money value I promised myself long long time ago that I will never Adebayor my kids!!! I want to be the kind of grandfather who gives the grand kids bankers cheques for their fee once in a while when they come visiting and spoil them a bit. You cannot afford to be a broke old man! It's one thing to be a broke young man (with hopes and possibilities ahead of him) and it is totally a different story to be a broke old man!! It is even worse if you used to have your own money. To achieve financial independence later in life, you must make plans and act on them now. Whatever the plan, you had better be able to earn a living without working in your later years! Stocks, real estate, a mix, whatever!!! it's true . Would hate to aAdebayor my children . Well said maichblack
|
|
Rank: Hello Joined: 3/7/2015 Posts: 8
|
Living off the stock market is a fantasy my friends, the only people that do are the stock brokers because they make free money on your way in and out of the market. You can live off the stock market in a volatile upward market where you play as a day trader or a swing trader, but even then you will have to be very good at timing the top and bottom of stocks. This is not a worthwhile venture, while you could make a lot of money real quick, you could also lose a lot of money real quick too. Real money in the stock market is made over a very long time, it entails investming money you will not need in the near horizon. You dont wanna have money in the stock market that you will need for paying rent in a couple of months time, what will happen if the markets tanks? Making money in the stock market is a simple thing, it already been figured out and it only takes discipline. All these billionaires in kenya and all over the world did the same thing. Whether you talking about Buffet or Jimna Mbaru, or Chris Kirubi. These people invested in other businesses, be they Insurance(Buffet) or Real estate(Kirubi) and reinvested their returns in their businesses. After a while their revenues got really high and thats when they started pumping money into the stock market. They never at any one point relied on the stock market for their daily bread.
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Living entirely off the stock market
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|