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Things I used to think were true
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Muriel
#21 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 7:41:46 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Mv ufanisi,

I am assuming you opine you are 'enlightened'. I am, however, of an otherwise opinion. You are still in 'darkness'.

For example:

1. did you know that the richest and most affluent countries in Europe had very strong religious roots and heritage?

2. You opine USA is great because it's God fearing. Just because it's founders were deeply religious does not follow that now all Americans are also deeply religious consequently resulting to it's greatness.

3. Education leads to personal development. You get education so you can optimise your latent potential. That your country benefits from your eduction is a bonus. Capitalism. Reason for availability of educated poor people and lots of uneducated wealthy people is capitalism.

4. Your rank in school has a role to play in how you start your independence from your benefactors. When you got your bachelors you were given 'power to read and do all that appertains' to your line. It's the start not the end.

5. Before you do, you must know. or have you forgotten the relationship between cause and effect? See point #7.

6. You analyse Mississippi hoping we will take what you say at face value. Income Distribution Within U.S. Religious Groups Please do not fuddle statistics. More than a quarter of the population in Mississippi is African American.



Shida ya nyeuthi hata huko Amerikani usibandike kwa wengine.

7. If you insist for government to define education for you and accept and abide by that definition what does that make you in the system? See point #4.


Just because one has strong religious roots or even wears red shirts every day doesn't mean that is the cause of their wealth level.

For example, students at Alliance High School wear green sweaters, does that mean that we should tell students in all other high schools to wear the same clothes and hope for better exam results?

You have to establish causality. Correlation =/ (not equal) Causality.

I'm yet to see the causality between wealth and religion.

From you data Hindus have the highest proportion of people earning more than 100k USD. Should we use that data to then think that it's Hinduism that's causing this?










You are yet to see causality between wealth and religion?

I must be mistaken somewhere. Correct me if I am wrong, but was it not you I was discussing with earlier the relationship between cause and effect?

About reaping and sowing? Is it logical to include perhaps working to eat and things like that?

We must be careful not to lapse into fallacies e.g. of green and sweaters in our arguments.
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Caramba
#22 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 9:00:27 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/27/2010
Posts: 266
Location: Nairobi
Back to the title of this thread, used to think that crime does not pay.

Some dude is just about to collect 11billion from some hospital deal.
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chiaroscuro
#23 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 12:39:03 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/2/2012
Posts: 1,134
Location: Nairobi
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Things which hoodwinked me in the past

In no short order;

1. Poverty causes insecurity and thuggery - until you visit poor countries where no one will steal from you
2. Education leads to national wealth - until you realize that there are lots of educated poor people and lots of uneducated wealthy people.The are more poor uneducated people than poor educated ones. If education wasn't necessary for wealth, the wealthy wouldn't take their kids to school! This raises the question, should we be always talking about educating people as the solution to poverty alleviation in our countries?
3. The United States is great because it's a God fearing nation - the poorest states in the US such as Mississippi are also the most religious and racist. Also most people in the United States are not religious. Not true; you mean "many" not "most
4. Your rank in high school will predict how you will do in life - the problem with linear thinking in a multi-variable universe
5. It's important to have an all-rounded education - we're in the age of the specialist not the generalist.
6. Diversify your investments - not if you are trying to grow wealth! Business people specialise; investors diversify
7. Knowledge is more important than practice. Doesn't practice create knowledge?

...
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tycho
#24 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 1:00:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.
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Muriel
#25 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 1:35:20 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.


How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things?
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tycho
#26 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 2:08:20 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.


How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things?


Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn.

Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary.
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Muriel
#27 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 2:16:35 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.


How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things?


Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn.

Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary.


Is the subjection the cause or the effect?
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tycho
#28 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 2:23:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.


How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things?


Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn.

Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary.


Is the subjection the cause or the effect?


Either cause or effect, both cause and effect, neither cause nor effect, and probably all of these or none of them.
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Wakanyugi
#29 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 2:23:25 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.


How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things?


Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn.

Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary.


In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect.

Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience).

This revelation process is conditioned on:

a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc)

b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and

c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Muriel
#30 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2015 2:45:05 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
Muriel wrote:
tycho wrote:
If you know something to be true or not true then the knowledge is most likely obsolete.


How does this fit in the cause-and-effect scheme of things?


Assuming that the cause and effect model is valid - there are grounds for skepticism - the instance of knowledge is subjected to a process driven by the sociology of knowledge and forces of paridigm shifts as illustrated by Kuhn.

Then again cause and effect is always conditional, and conditions will always vary.


In a timeless Universe there can be no cause and effect.

Everything that can ever BE, already IS. What we have is simply REVELATION, namely a process by which we apprehend and internalize different things and events that already exist (in other words 'create' them anew in our experience).

This revelation process is conditioned on:

a) a three dimensional reality, in which we have inserted the illusion of time (thus the erroneous perception of cause and effect etc)

b) the limitations of the human Earth instrument (the body) with its sensory tools etc that simply limit how much experience we can process and

c) the terms of our Earth walk, which require, for instance, that we handicap ourselves, say, by deliberately suppressing much of what we already know so as not to interfere with our 'learning' experience on Earth


Is the universe currently timeless?
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