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Best intrest rates - need like 1.5m
Boris Boyka
#31 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2015 9:44:10 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
nakujua wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
githundi wrote:
You guys are ignoring the issue of time, security of your money when you guarantee others..and the fact that you have to tie your money to get money. .
If you get the right bank. .bank loan anytime

You read hurriedly! You comments shows gaps in understanding. smile Do you fear doing calculations?
I said do the time factor and prove. Memory lapse...We talked of short term,mid term & long term which are you talking of? Let me help you.
Another scenario: They both invest the loan money earning 20% intrest annually compounded.
A invests the 900k for all 5 years,B invests the 792k for 4 years while the other sacco shares earn 8% p.a
A 900k x (1.2)^5 = 2240k
B 792k x (1.2)^4 = 1643k
Cash in sacco
A. = 0000
B. = 312k
Dividends 8% p.a compounded
A. = 000
B = 135k
Interest paid to bank/sacco on loan
A @ 18% p.a. = 471k
B @ 12% p.a = 216k
Networth at end of 5years.
A (2240+0+0)- 471 = 1769
B (1643+312+135)- 216 = 1874.
My friend which is higher?
At year six onwards A won't have time advantage now....they will take same loan amount at same time.. While B enjoys dvdnd A won't have any.
Guaranteeing is Mutual because you guarantee me i guarantee you. @Githundi Come back again with something concrete.

let me try out some biased maths the same.
20k monthly payment = min 60k monthly salary
12 x 60 = 720k per year (your min annual worth)

1874 - 1769 = 105k

720k > 105k smile

But on a serious note, your example is too expensive when you factor in the one year time period.

Your maths is ntialala like comrades...that annual worthness!
smile Seems this student is hard headed and out to frustrate the teacher. That one year is factored in my maths above. You can see 900k for 5 years while 792k for 4 years?? In first year A makes more than B but as years progress the gap reduces and overturns.Just take a pen and paper and do it. smile
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
enyands
#32 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2015 10:32:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
Boris Boyka wrote:
nakujua wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
githundi wrote:
You guys are ignoring the issue of time, security of your money when you guarantee others..and the fact that you have to tie your money to get money. .
If you get the right bank. .bank loan anytime

You read hurriedly! You comments shows gaps in understanding. smile Do you fear doing calculations?
I said do the time factor and prove. Memory lapse...We talked of short term,mid term & long term which are you ltalking of? Let me help you.
Another scenario: They both invest the loan money earning 20% intrest annually compounded.
A invests the 900k for all 5 years,B invests the 792k for 4 years while the other sacco shares earn 8% p.a
A 900k x (1.2)^5 = 2240k
B 792k x (1.2)^4 = 1643k
Cash in sacco
A. = 0000
B. = 312k
Dividends 8% p.a compounded
A. = 000
B = 135k
Interest paid to bank/sacco on loan
A @ 18% p.a. = 471k
B @ 12% p.a = 216k
Networth at end of 5years.
A (2240+0+0)- 471 = 1769
B (1643+312+135)- 216 = 1874.
My friend which is higher?
At year six onwards A won't have time advantage now....they will take same loan amount at same time.. While B enjoys dvdnd A won't have any.
Guaranteeing is Mutual because you guarantee me i guarantee you. @Githundi Come back again with something concrete.

let me try out some biased maths the same.
20k monthly payment = min 60k monthly salary
12 x 60 = 720k per year (your min annual worth)

1874 - 1769 = 105k

720k > 105k smile

But on a serious note, your example is too expensive when you factor in the one year time period.

Your maths is ntialala like comrades...that annual worthness!
smile Seems this student is hard headed and out to frustrate the teacher. That one year is factored in my maths above. You can see 900k for 5 years while 792k for 4 years?? In first year A makes more than B but as years progress the gap reduces and overturns.Just take a pen and paper and do it. smile

I think you guys need to meet or something and sort this math problems practically . One is east and the other is west . Kutananeni ,
nakujua
#33 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:49:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Boris Boyka wrote:

Your maths is ntialala like comrades...that annual worthness!
smile Seems this student is hard headed and out to frustrate the teacher. That one year is factored in my maths above. You can see 900k for 5 years while 792k for 4 years?? In first year A makes more than B but as years progress the gap reduces and overturns.Just take a pen and paper and do it. smile

smile , teachers have to be patient and understanding - that said some teachers tend to get biased in their teaching methods and focus on what is straight forward leaving aside the juicy parts.

If one needs 900k in a loan, using your example when will the sacco individual get the 900k of disposable cash for use.

now we need a way of calculating the cost of the time difference and of course the opportunity cost - we are assuming people take out loans for a particular need, otherwise if we are to look at your example then its better off stashing the 20k per month under a mattress for 5 years.
nakujua
#34 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:52:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
enyands wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
nakujua wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
githundi wrote:
You guys are ignoring the issue of time, security of your money when you guarantee others..and the fact that you have to tie your money to get money. .
If you get the right bank. .bank loan anytime

You read hurriedly! You comments shows gaps in understanding. smile Do you fear doing calculations?
I said do the time factor and prove. Memory lapse...We talked of short term,mid term & long term which are you ltalking of? Let me help you.
Another scenario: They both invest the loan money earning 20% intrest annually compounded.
A invests the 900k for all 5 years,B invests the 792k for 4 years while the other sacco shares earn 8% p.a
A 900k x (1.2)^5 = 2240k
B 792k x (1.2)^4 = 1643k
Cash in sacco
A. = 0000
B. = 312k
Dividends 8% p.a compounded
A. = 000
B = 135k
Interest paid to bank/sacco on loan
A @ 18% p.a. = 471k
B @ 12% p.a = 216k
Networth at end of 5years.
A (2240+0+0)- 471 = 1769
B (1643+312+135)- 216 = 1874.
My friend which is higher?
At year six onwards A won't have time advantage now....they will take same loan amount at same time.. While B enjoys dvdnd A won't have any.
Guaranteeing is Mutual because you guarantee me i guarantee you. @Githundi Come back again with something concrete.

let me try out some biased maths the same.
20k monthly payment = min 60k monthly salary
12 x 60 = 720k per year (your min annual worth)

1874 - 1769 = 105k

720k > 105k smile

But on a serious note, your example is too expensive when you factor in the one year time period.

Your maths is ntialala like comrades...that annual worthness!
smile Seems this student is hard headed and out to frustrate the teacher. That one year is factored in my maths above. You can see 900k for 5 years while 792k for 4 years?? In first year A makes more than B but as years progress the gap reduces and overturns.Just take a pen and paper and do it. smile

I think you guys need to meet or something and sort this math problems practically . One is east and the other is west . Kutananeni ,

smile sasa what is the need of a forum if we meet in person and iron out stuff, of course I throw in a daft observation, I balance my equation with foreign parameters, someone else notes that and puts across an alternative na kila mtu anapata manufa yake kivyake, hata kwa vizazi vijavyo.
ama unaona aje
Lolest!
#35 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2015 6:46:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
The best way to compare the two is to hold all other factors constant i.e. assume you can take 1M loan from either of the two

Then put them side by side

SACCO will beat bank there
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Shak
#36 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2015 8:35:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
I once guaranteed a friends loan in a sacco only for him to start defaulting. Wacha tu. When they started recovering his loan through me I almost went ballistic. That's the downside of Sacco borrowing. Luckily after much chasing he paid his loan
Boris Boyka
#37 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:12:25 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
@nakujua B will have to contribute 22k for 14 months = 308k. He now qualifies for that 900k and invests it for 46 months(3.83 yrs). A invests all the 900k for 60 months (5yrs). Both at 20% profit p.a cmpnd.**When B qualifies for the loan ;Here A will be commiting 22,855/- on loan only while B Commits 23700 on loan and 2k on shares total 25700 mothly. If we ensure all put the 25700 into use for our study,then A will have a surplus of 2845/- for the remaining 46 months to invest and we assume it earns 8% p.a
Calculations:

Loans payments:
A. 22,855 x 60 months = 1,371,300.
B. 23,700 x 48 months = 1,137,600.
Interest paid
A. (1371-900)k = 471k
B. (1137-900)k = 237k

ROI on loan invested.
A 900k x (1.2)^5 =2240k
B 900k x (1.2)^3.83 = 1810k.

Surplus/Money at Sacco without dvdnds.
A.( 2845 x 46 ) = 130k
B. 308+(2 x 46) = 400k
The above with 8% dvdnd p.a compounded
A. = 158k
B. = 570k

Net gains by both = Earnings - expenses (intrest on loan):
A ( 2240+158) - 471 = 1927k
B ( 1810+570) - 237 = 2143k.
Make your own inferences.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
Boris Boyka
#38 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2015 9:14:59 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
@Lolest they were clinging on the time factor and therefore i had to dissapprove them.
Anyway for your case:Taking 1M Loan from:
Bank @18% p.a for 48 Months repayment is Kshs. 29,375 total repayment is
Kshs 1,410,000.
Sacco @ 12% p.a for 48 months repayment is Kshs. 26,350 pm, total repayment is Kshs. 1,264,800.
Bank @18 % p.a for 60 Months repayment is Kshs 25,400
pm, total repayment is Kshs. 1,524,000.
Sacco @12% p.a for 60 months repayment is Kshs. 22,245
pm, total repayment is
Kshs 1,334,700.
Note also the diff in monthly payments which leave B with much surplus to invest as shares in sacco @ 8% p.a dvdnds.
NB
Factors affecting our study include:
I) Time periods at which to evaluate the two.
II) Loan amount taken.
III) Amount committed monthly.
IV) Interest rate on loan.
V) Rates of Return on investment. among others. All of them can't be equal. When you hold one or more constant,the other will vary but results will be achieved.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
nakujua
#39 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2015 2:08:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Boris Boyka wrote:
@nakujua B will have to contribute 22k for 14 months = 308k. He now qualifies for that 900k and invests it for 46 months(3.83 yrs). A invests all the 900k for 60 months (5yrs). Both at 20% profit p.a cmpnd.**When B qualifies for the loan ;Here A will be commiting 22,855/- on loan only while B Commits 23700 on loan and 2k on shares total 25700 mothly. If we ensure all put the 25700 into use for our study,then A will have a surplus of 2845/- for the remaining 46 months to invest and we assume it earns 8% p.a
Calculations:

Loans payments:
A. 22,855 x 60 months = 1,371,300.
B. 23,700 x 48 months = 1,137,600.
Interest paid
A. (1371-900)k = 471k
B. (1137-900)k = 237k

ROI on loan invested.
A 900k x (1.2)^5 =2240k
B 900k x (1.2)^3.83 = 1810k.

Surplus/Money at Sacco without dvdnds.
A.( 2845 x 46 ) = 130k
B. 308+(2 x 46) = 400k
The above with 8% dvdnd p.a compounded
A. = 158k
B. = 570k

Net gains by both = Earnings - expenses (intrest on loan):
A ( 2240+158) - 471 = 1927k
B ( 1810+570) - 237 = 2143k.
Make your own inferences.

you are complicating the calculation when you bring in investments. Lets focus on the cost of getting and paying the loan for now, since investments bring in more parameters.

Loan amount 900k
A gets in 0 months (60 months repayment)
B gets in 13 months (47 months repayment)

___________________A: __________ B:
monthly payment __ 22,854 ______ 24,175
total payment ____ 1,371,245 ___ 1,131,379
total interest ___ 471,245 _____ 231,379

At this point we consider the direct benefits at the end of 5 years;
____________ A: _____________ B:
Surplus ____ 62,087 (diff) __ 300,000 (shares)
Interest ___ -471,245 ________ -231,379
Time _______ 13 months ______ 0 months

A = -409167 + (cost of 13 months)
B = -231,379 + (cost of disposing of 300k shares)

smile and that is my hesabu jua kali style
Boris Boyka
#40 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2015 3:47:13 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
@nakujua you are good at confusing yourself. Time could be factored in if the value reflects in the money either gained or lost. That's why i showed the invested amounts. .. As you said you daft. Your jua kali is real as that of Mandera. I rest my case.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
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