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Contradiction Premises
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:symbols wrote:@AlphDoti - Instead of repeating your claims address the issues I've brought up.If you want my sources and how I arrived at the conclusions please ask. 1.Allah is not Yahweh.Islam is not the religion of Yahweh.See my previous post. 2.Quote the Bible on what you think isn't right for God to do or command and the man-made ideas so I can separate your opinions from scripture. 3.Christianity is based on the life,works,teachings,death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.Paul couldn't have started it and according to the Quran it is Allah who is to blame for the rise of Christianity. 4.Whether the word Trinity exists in the Bible or not is irrelevant.What it defines is present in the Bible.Apart from the quote below, see my previous posts. Proverbs 30:4 wrote:Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His hands? Who has bound up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is the name of His Son-- if you know? 5. In the Old Testament Yahweh occurs 6,519 times. This name is used more than any other name of God. Yahweh is first used in Gen 2:4. It is not a concocted name. 6.Muhammad and Islam introduce a narrative that differs from the Bible and explicitly denies that Jesus is the Son of God.The prophets you are referring to are not the same prophets the Bible describes and Islam's approval of them is based on Muhammad's narrative. Going by the Bible,Islam is a different religion.You are yet to provide the Islamic sources for the scriptures you claim Islam approves of and why other books of the Bible are excluded from your list. So who is repeating issues? Now you want us to repeat from herePlease @symbols, we have moved from that already. We picked issue number 5. So if you don't anything else to say there, we can move to another item in the list. Now, now me and you, we are here. Check the post below that.You still haven't proved or provided anything. Feel free if you want to start substantiating your claims.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Tokyo wrote:tycho wrote:Veiled insults, or flattery, or honest opinion, will hopefully, not deter me from saying that we can know when and how humans became conscious of God, and or his absence, through a careful look at history, especially through art and ritual.
In my opinion God is a creation of Man and a great one at that. I believe that with time God will evolve into something more palatable for the challenges facing humanity now, just as he/she/it has evolved through the past. If God is creation of Man , does it mean then we have different gods reflecting diversity and cultures of his "sheeps" Different cultures and different periods of history have had different experiences of God, yet in this difference there is also convergence.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:Veiled insults, or flattery, or honest opinion, will hopefully, not deter me from saying that we can know when and how humans became conscious of God, and or his absence, through a careful look at history, especially through art and ritual.
In my opinion God is a creation of Man and a great one at that. I believe that with time God will evolve into something more palatable for the challenges facing humanity now, just as he/she/it has evolved through the past. When and how did humans become conscious of God?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:Tokyo wrote:tycho wrote:Veiled insults, or flattery, or honest opinion, will hopefully, not deter me from saying that we can know when and how humans became conscious of God, and or his absence, through a careful look at history, especially through art and ritual.
In my opinion God is a creation of Man and a great one at that. I believe that with time God will evolve into something more palatable for the challenges facing humanity now, just as he/she/it has evolved through the past. If God is creation of Man , does it mean then we have different gods reflecting diversity and cultures of his "sheeps" Different cultures and different periods of history have had different experiences of God, yet in this difference there is also convergence. What is the cause of the convergence and the divergence?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Symbols, I thought I was ready to answer the questions as to the when, and how of 'God consciousness', and the third question you've asked about convergence and divergence. But when I put myself to the task of explaining myself, I realized I had work to do. I had to develop the language for it practically from scratch or thereby.
But to get to the task let me start that humans became aware of God when they became aware of themselves (for this case awareness and consciousness are deemed as equal).
Self awareness or self consciousness came about gradually as Man developed politically, linguistically, and mentally. Even now Man developing along these lines, keeping up the pattern of an evolving God and Man.
The reasons of convergence are our uniformity as a species, divergence is due to the inherent energic possibilities around (entropy) and our capacity to symbolize them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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symbols wrote: When and how did humans become conscious of God? A loaded question, this one is. Humans - basically the spiritual entities that we primarily are - are innately God conscious. Bluntly speaking we are fragments of the God being and could not be anything else but conscious of this fact. Human BEINGS on the other hand, that is human spirits descended into matter - wearing bodies, suppressing our memories and greater awareness, operating in the dense energy climate of Earth etc - now that is different. I believe one of the desired outcomes of BEING human is to become God conscious when still confined in matter. There are not many human beings who can honestly claim this achievement. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote: When and how did humans become conscious of God? A loaded question, this one is. Humans - basically the spiritual entities that we primarily are - are innately God conscious. Bluntly speaking we are fragments of the God being and could not be anything else but conscious of this fact. Human BEINGS on the other hand, that is human spirits descended into matter - wearing bodies, suppressing our memories and greater awareness, operating in the dense energy climate of Earth etc - now that is different. I believe one of the desired outcomes of BEING human is to become God conscious when still confined in matter. There are not many human beings who can honestly claim this achievement. I'd like to refer you to Julian Jayne's 'The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind'. Here the writer argues successfully that consciousness is not only unnecessary for survival but isn't inherent in Man. Just like the creation story in Genesis affirms. Again the definition you've given of Man using words like 'spirit', or 'soul' has the mark of presupposing their meaning and possible existence. But words are political creations.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:@Symbols, I thought I was ready to answer the questions as to the when, and how of 'God consciousness', and the third question you've asked about convergence and divergence. But when I put myself to the task of explaining myself, I realized I had work to do. I had to develop the language for it practically from scratch or thereby.
But to get to the task let me start that humans became aware of God when they became aware of themselves (for this case awareness and consciousness are deemed as equal).
Self awareness or self consciousness came about gradually as Man developed politically, linguistically, and mentally. Even now Man developing along these lines, keeping up the pattern of an evolving God and Man.
The reasons of convergence are our uniformity as a species, divergence is due to the inherent energic possibilities around (entropy) and our capacity to symbolize them. How does self awareness or self consciousness equate to awareness of God?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote: I'd like to refer you to Julian Jayne's 'The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind'. Here the writer argues successfully that consciousness is not only unnecessary for survival but isn't inherent in Man. Just like the creation story in Genesis affirms. Where can I get a copy? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote: When and how did humans become conscious of God? A loaded question, this one is. Humans - basically the spiritual entities that we primarily are - are innately God conscious. Bluntly speaking we are fragments of the God being and could not be anything else but conscious of this fact. Human BEINGS on the other hand, that is human spirits descended into matter - wearing bodies, suppressing our memories and greater awareness, operating in the dense energy climate of Earth etc - now that is different. I believe one of the desired outcomes of BEING human is to become God conscious when still confined in matter. There are not many human beings who can honestly claim this achievement. I'd like to refer you to Julian Jayne's 'The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind'. Here the writer argues successfully that consciousness is not only unnecessary for survival but isn't inherent in Man. Just like the creation story in Genesis affirms. Again the definition you've given of Man using words like 'spirit', or 'soul' has the mark of presupposing their meaning and possible existence. But words are political creations. @Wakanyugi - It was originally @tycho's question. @tycho - How are 'spirit' and 'soul' political creations and what makes our species predisposed to create,use and accept such and other political ideas?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:@Symbols, I thought I was ready to answer the questions as to the when, and how of 'God consciousness', and the third question you've asked about convergence and divergence. But when I put myself to the task of explaining myself, I realized I had work to do. I had to develop the language for it practically from scratch or thereby.
But to get to the task let me start that humans became aware of God when they became aware of themselves (for this case awareness and consciousness are deemed as equal).
Self awareness or self consciousness came about gradually as Man developed politically, linguistically, and mentally. Even now Man developing along these lines, keeping up the pattern of an evolving God and Man.
The reasons of convergence are our uniformity as a species, divergence is due to the inherent energic possibilities around (entropy) and our capacity to symbolize them. How does self awareness or self consciousness equate to awareness of God? Self awareness leads to a 'You-I' relation. It leads to causes and effects. Questions. Explanation. Light of nature.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:@Symbols, I thought I was ready to answer the questions as to the when, and how of 'God consciousness', and the third question you've asked about convergence and divergence. But when I put myself to the task of explaining myself, I realized I had work to do. I had to develop the language for it practically from scratch or thereby.
But to get to the task let me start that humans became aware of God when they became aware of themselves (for this case awareness and consciousness are deemed as equal).
Self awareness or self consciousness came about gradually as Man developed politically, linguistically, and mentally. Even now Man developing along these lines, keeping up the pattern of an evolving God and Man.
The reasons of convergence are our uniformity as a species, divergence is due to the inherent energic possibilities around (entropy) and our capacity to symbolize them. How does self awareness or self consciousness equate to awareness of God? Self awareness leads to a 'You-I' relation. It leads to causes and effects. Questions. Explanation. Light of nature. What is the cause that leads self awareness to the awareness of God?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote: When and how did humans become conscious of God? A loaded question, this one is. Humans - basically the spiritual entities that we primarily are - are innately God conscious. Bluntly speaking we are fragments of the God being and could not be anything else but conscious of this fact. Human BEINGS on the other hand, that is human spirits descended into matter - wearing bodies, suppressing our memories and greater awareness, operating in the dense energy climate of Earth etc - now that is different. I believe one of the desired outcomes of BEING human is to become God conscious when still confined in matter. There are not many human beings who can honestly claim this achievement. I'd like to refer you to Julian Jayne's 'The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind'. Here the writer argues successfully that consciousness is not only unnecessary for survival but isn't inherent in Man. Just like the creation story in Genesis affirms. Again the definition you've given of Man using words like 'spirit', or 'soul' has the mark of presupposing their meaning and possible existence. But words are political creations. @Wakanyugi - It was originally @tycho's question. @tycho - How are 'spirit' and 'soul' political creations and what makes our species predisposed to create,use and accept such and other political ideas? Political ideas are about survival and adaptation. The species must meet its needs.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:@Symbols, I thought I was ready to answer the questions as to the when, and how of 'God consciousness', and the third question you've asked about convergence and divergence. But when I put myself to the task of explaining myself, I realized I had work to do. I had to develop the language for it practically from scratch or thereby.
But to get to the task let me start that humans became aware of God when they became aware of themselves (for this case awareness and consciousness are deemed as equal).
Self awareness or self consciousness came about gradually as Man developed politically, linguistically, and mentally. Even now Man developing along these lines, keeping up the pattern of an evolving God and Man.
The reasons of convergence are our uniformity as a species, divergence is due to the inherent energic possibilities around (entropy) and our capacity to symbolize them. How does self awareness or self consciousness equate to awareness of God? Self awareness leads to a 'You-I' relation. It leads to causes and effects. Questions. Explanation. Light of nature. What is the cause that leads self awareness to the awareness of God? Politics. Hunger.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi, the book is available on PDF.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the book is available on PDF. Thanks. I'll take a look "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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