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Nelson and Julius: who was greater?
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Lolest!
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 1:51:48 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
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Nyerere

Reading through Mandela's it's a long walk to freedom autobio, you realise that the SA struggle was personalised around Mandela by his close buddy and ANC sec gen Oliver Tambo

Nyerere helped many African liberation groups, built a cohesive state and brought down East Africa's biggest dictator Amin
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Muriel
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:29:15 PM
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Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
Wazuans

I was reading an online piece about Mandela and the following line stuck in my mind:

"...Mr. Mandela only became Nelson Mandela during his years in prison. In other words, it was the solitude, degradation, devastation and inhumanity of that time in confinement that made him who he became." [Robin Sharma]

In other words Mandela was shaped by events to become the great man he was.

On the other hand Julius Nyerere rose to greatness without the benefit of adversity to shape his character.

Both had leadership thrust upon them (to misquote Churchill) but they arrived at greatness from two very different paths.

In that case who was greater?



Wakanyugi,

Is this a question about personalities? Of what use is personalities?
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kalenjinherdsboy
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:41:26 PM
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One man left behind a country with the highest rates of HIV and crime in the world and the other left a broken economy and extensive corruption.
Mandela and Nyerere did great things but calling them great leaders is blind hero worship.
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sheri
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:43:20 PM
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When the record of any human life is set down, there are three pairs of eyes who see it in a different light. There is the life as I see it, as others see it, and as God sees it. Bishop sheen Foulton
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McReggae
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:49:16 PM
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Location: Nairobi
kalenjinherdsboy wrote:
One man left behind a country with the highest rates of HIV and crime in the world and the other left a broken economy and extensive corruption.
Mandela and Nyerere did great things but calling them great leaders is blind hero worship.


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Wakanyugi
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:31:38 PM
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People, please calm down! It is just a debate (like the one going on in parliament right now).

The question is not about personalities but about human aspiration to and achievement of greatness.

I start from a premise that Julius Nyerere and Nelson Mandela are two of the greatest leaders our continent has produced.

One was hammered at the anvil of adversity, 27 years in jail is not kidogo. In the process he became a moral giant, largely measured by what he did NOT do on assuming power. Won the Nobel prize along the way.

The other one seized an opportunity and applied clearly superior intellect and morality to shape a nation, influence a region and set a bar so high that no Tanzanian leader since then has been able to approach it.

Major achievements for both men, you must admit.

If you were to pick one for a 'greatness prize,' which would it be?

Why?

Please indulge me.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Muriel
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:59:06 PM
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Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
People, please calm down! It is just a debate (like the one going on in parliament right now).

The question is not about personalities but about human aspiration to and achievement of greatness.

I start from a premise that Julius Nyerere and Nelson Mandela are two of the greatest leaders our continent has produced.

One was hammered at the anvil of adversity, 27 years in jail is not kidogo. In the process he became a moral giant, largely measured by what he did NOT do on assuming power. Won the Nobel prize along the way.

The other one seized an opportunity and applied clearly superior intellect and morality to shape a nation, influence a region and set a bar so high that no Tanzanian leader since then has been able to approach it.

Major achievements for both men, you must admit.

If you were to pick one for a 'greatness prize,' which would it be?

Why?

Please indulge me.


So its about their personality. What other parameters can be considered? Are their marriages also to be considered? Why would not anyone aspire to achieve what they achieved in their marriages, if that aspect of their lives could be considered?

There is no one to pick for any prize. They are all human. Fallible.
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Muriel
#18 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:00:42 PM
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Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
kalenjinherdsboy wrote:
One man left behind a country with the highest rates of HIV and crime in the world and the other left a broken economy and extensive corruption.
Mandela and Nyerere did great things but calling them great leaders is blind hero worship.


Agree. Not with attributing the state of their nations to them but with the other point.
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kalenjinherdsboy
#19 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:31:49 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 1/3/2015
Posts: 86
Location: Bomet
Wakanyugi wrote:
People, please calm down! It is just a debate (like the one going on in parliament right now).

The question is not about personalities but about human aspiration to and achievement of greatness.

I start from a premise that Julius Nyerere and Nelson Mandela are two of the greatest leaders our continent has produced.

One was hammered at the anvil of adversity, 27 years in jail is not kidogo. In the process he became a moral giant, largely measured by what he did NOT do on assuming power. Won the Nobel prize along the way.

The other one seized an opportunity and applied clearly superior intellect and morality to shape a nation, influence a region and set a bar so high that no Tanzanian leader since then has been able to approach it.

Major achievements for both men, you must admit.

If you were to pick one for a 'greatness prize,' which would it be?

Why?

Please indulge me.


I think it's a fallacy to call Mandela and Nyerere great leaders. Mandela was weak as South African president and Nyerere had greater achievements as a scholar than as president.

Ill answer your original query by saying Mandela was a greater man for his sacrifice and for uniting his country after apartheid.
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Lolest!
#20 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 6:02:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
Ill answer your original query by saying Mandela was a greater man for his sacrifice and for uniting his country after apartheid.

It was a delicate balance that SA had post 1990

what to do with blacks

what to do with whites

what to do with coloureds

He handled the unity aspect well. Included his opponents in govt(FW de Klerk was Deputy Pres, Mangosuthu Buthelezi was acting president for some time)

But world media overhyped him to a point of near worship

I still think Nyerere was greater
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