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Contradiction Premises
Wakanyugi
#41 Posted : Sunday, March 08, 2015 5:19:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
God is not a contradictory God. HE is the Supreme being. Hence logic can never be applied to HIM. But if its the accient gods, then the question is contradictory.


So god is now a he?

When did that happen?

This just gets gets curiouser and curiouser.


In the begining God said They creat a person in THEIR own image. They created a Man. So God is HE


But did they not also create Woman?
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#42 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:51:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
It's better to be sane than 'Godly'.


Another contradiction (I think we should just blame language and we can all go home).

It is easier to say 'Tycholy' than 'Godly' if you mean to make a distinction.

By the definition of God given above, all are Godly by the mere fact they are integral in "all that is/was/will be..." - God.


Of course your answer is also a contradiction even in itself.


Of course it is.

Here is an attempt at none contradiction: 'within or without, the all that is, God is.'

So, to answer the question that started this discussion:

God can be a contradiction; just as God can be good, evil, beautiful, ugly, tall short...etc seeing as God is all of these and more, yet none of these terms define God, being as they are first and foremost, creations of only one aspect of an all inclusive God - in other words language expressions of human beings desire to define reality through contrast.



I don't think the attempt at non contradiction has been successful. You've gone back to a 'within' a 'without', and restricted yourself to 'what is'. There's also, 'what's not'.

We can't avoid contradiction. It's even vital for us to have contradiction. Whatever definition or explanation we may have about 'God' can only be valid and true if that 'God' is contradictory.

For example, only a contradictory God can be merciful or loving, or even all powerful.
masukuma
#43 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 8:32:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
KIKItheKING
#44 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 9:54:42 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
God is not a contradictory God. HE is the Supreme being. Hence logic can never be applied to HIM. But if its the accient gods, then the question is contradictory.


So god is now a he?

When did that happen?

This just gets gets curiouser and curiouser.


In the begining God said They creat a person in THEIR own image. They created a Man. So God is HE


But did they not also create Woman?

Yes They did. But a woman came as an after_thought. To keep company the Man who They had created in their own image.
FEAR GOD
Wakanyugi
#45 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 1:34:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:
It's better to be sane than 'Godly'.


Another contradiction (I think we should just blame language and we can all go home).

It is easier to say 'Tycholy' than 'Godly' if you mean to make a distinction.

By the definition of God given above, all are Godly by the mere fact they are integral in "all that is/was/will be..." - God.


Of course your answer is also a contradiction even in itself.


Of course it is.

Here is an attempt at none contradiction: 'within or without, the all that is, God is.'

So, to answer the question that started this discussion:

God can be a contradiction; just as God can be good, evil, beautiful, ugly, tall short...etc seeing as God is all of these and more, yet none of these terms define God, being as they are first and foremost, creations of only one aspect of an all inclusive God - in other words language expressions of human beings desire to define reality through contrast.



I don't think the attempt at non contradiction has been successful. You've gone back to a 'within' a 'without', and restricted yourself to 'what is'. There's also, 'what's not'.

We can't avoid contradiction. It's even vital for us to have contradiction. Whatever definition or explanation we may have about 'God' can only be valid and true if that 'God' is contradictory.

For example, only a contradictory God can be merciful or loving, or even all powerful.


Tycho, why are you trying to be contradictory? smile

I already agreed with you that God is contradictory, just as she is all those other qualities that we like to assign to it.

But we need to remember that the idea of 'God' is basically a human creation. As long as we insist on personifying such a concept, it will always contain contradiction.

Remember contradiction creates contrast, a quality that is absolutely essential for generating reality in a 4 dimensional Universe. For instance, friction, which we can not do without, is contradiction, is it not?

But my basic argument is this: Contradiction does not reduce God, anymore than your being different makes you less that your fellow man.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#46 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 1:38:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
God is not a contradictory God. HE is the Supreme being. Hence logic can never be applied to HIM. But if its the accient gods, then the question is contradictory.


So god is now a he?

When did that happen?

This just gets gets curiouser and curiouser.


In the begining God said They creat a person in THEIR own image. They created a Man. So God is HE


But did they not also create Woman?

Yes They did. But a woman came as an after_thought. To keep company the Man who They had created in their own image.


Pray tell; in whose image was this 'after thought' made?

And who were 'they' and where were they meeting to discuss all this?


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
AlphDoti
#47 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 4:23:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
God is not a contradictory God. HE is the Supreme being. Hence logic can never be applied to HIM. But if its the accient gods, then the question is contradictory.

So god is now a he?

When did that happen?

This just gets gets curiouser and curiouser.

In the begining God said They creat a person in THEIR own image. They created a Man. So God is HE

But did they not also create Woman?

Yes They did. But a woman came as an after_thought. To keep company the Man who They had created in their own image.

@kiki, you go wrong in a few things Shame on you

First, the woman was not created as an after-thought, that is reducing God to human, how can He be All-Knowing and Al-Seeing if he didn't foresee that Adam would need a woman? Can you create and "aeroplane" that can "land" without knowing he would need an "airport"? These are the same thinking I always blast kina @pastor for telling you ati Adam heard God's footsteps "bung! bung!". Do you really believe this tiny earth, God was walking on it? What was He stepping on before creating Earth? Such kind of thinking makes kina @hamburglar to become atheists!

Secondly, you have not understood the meaning "WE". Just google "royal plural" or "majesty plural". That's how God addresses Himself when talking on authoritative perspective.
Swenani
#48 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 4:26:16 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
AlphDoti wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
God is not a contradictory God. HE is the Supreme being. Hence logic can never be applied to HIM. But if its the accient gods, then the question is contradictory.

So god is now a he?

When did that happen?

This just gets gets curiouser and curiouser.

In the begining God said They creat a person in THEIR own image. They created a Man. So God is HE

But did they not also create Woman?

Yes They did. But a woman came as an after_thought. To keep company the Man who They had created in their own image.

@kiki, you go wrong in a few things Shame on you

First, the woman was not created as an after-thought, that is reducing God to human, how can He be All-Knowing and Al-Seeing if he didn't foresee that Adam would need a woman? Can you create and "aeroplane" that can "land" without knowing he would need an "airport"? These are the same thinking I always blast kina @pastor for telling you ati Adam heard God's footsteps "bung! bung!". Do you really believe this tiny earth, God was walking on it? What was He stepping on before creating Earth? Such kind of thinking makes kina @hamburglar to become atheists!

Secondly, you have not understood the meaning "WE". Just google "royal plural" or "majesty plural". That's how God addresses Himself when talking on authoritative perspective.


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
I just had to laugh!
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
AlphDoti
#49 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 4:39:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
God is not a contradictory God. HE is the Supreme being. Hence logic can never be applied to HIM. But if its the accient gods, then the question is contradictory.

So god is now a he?

When did that happen?

This just gets gets curiouser and curiouser.

In the begining God said They creat a person in THEIR own image. They created a Man. So God is HE

But did they not also create Woman?

Yes They did. But a woman came as an after_thought. To keep company the Man who They had created in their own image.

Pray tell; in whose image was this 'after thought' made?

And who were 'they' and where were they meeting to discuss all this?

I can see clearly, why people end up being atheists.

kina @kiki believes God riding in Cherub, like flying in helicopter (2 Samuel 22:9). Cherub are beautiful young girls, He (God of @kiki) flys like superman you see in films. Now how can that befits God??

Compare this with what the Quran says about God, in chapter 112, which is known as "The Purity of Faith". Chapter 112:1-4 (Sura Al-Ikhlas - The Purity of Faith)
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
KIKItheKING
#50 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 6:02:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
@AlphaDoti You have gone a great deal trying to expound on what you think of my understanding of matters religion and concerning the nature of God. First of all we seem yo differ since you look at this topic from a Muslims perspective and from the teachings of the good book Quran which i have not read. My understanding on this is based on the Creation story found in the Bible which i read along time ago and if my memory serves me right, the Man was created FIRST. So stop being all emotional and instead help @Wakanyugi understand why is God reffered to as HE.
FEAR GOD
AlphDoti
#51 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 6:07:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
KIKItheKING wrote:
@AlphaDoti You have gone a great deal trying to expound on what you think of my understanding of matters religion and concerning the nature of God. First of all we seem yo differ since you look at this topic from a Muslims perspective and from the teachings of the good book Quran which i have not read. My understanding on this is based on the Creation story found in the Bible which i read along time ago and if my memory serves me right, the Man was created FIRST. So stop being all emotional and instead help @Wakanyugi understand why is God reffered to as HE.

You read the creation story along time ago. You were a baby then and it's true you had no capacity to tell whether they make sense. Now you are grown up, have you started questioning the stories yet or you come here and tell those trying to learn the concept of God that the creation of woman was an afterthought? DO you still believe God rides on cherubs like helicopter? Do you still believe God the Creator of this mega-universe was walking on Earth and his foot steps was heard by Adam?

This is what I'm talking about. Evaluate man!
KIKItheKING
#52 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 6:35:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
...
FEAR GOD
KIKItheKING
#53 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 6:39:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
@AlphaDoti you have strong beliefs. Your beliefs. But first, answer the question you have been avoiding. Why is God reffered as HE? Lets leave creation theories since they vary from one religion to the other.
FEAR GOD
AlphDoti
#54 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:01:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
KIKItheKING wrote:
@AlphaDoti you have strong beliefs. Your beliefs. But first, answer the question you have been avoiding. Why is God reffered as HE? Lets leave creation theories since they vary from one religion to the other.

I'm glad you ask me this very good question. That's the spirit now. Learn.

The answer is that Allah (God Almighty) has no gender. Why do you refer to a car as "SHE"? Why do you refer to a ship as "SHE"? Why does God refer to both female and male as "MAN"?

So God does not have animal attributes of sexual needs. He does not need wife. He does not give birth. He does not have sex. Hence He does not have a son. God creates! Whatever He wills, he just says it, and it becomes!

So even the concept you were taught while you were young that God beget a son is false. In fact that verse has been expunged from the Bible, because it was a fabrication Laughing out loudly
KIKItheKING
#55 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:26:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
AlphDoti wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
@AlphaDoti you have strong beliefs. Your beliefs. But first, answer the question you have been avoiding. Why is God reffered as HE? Lets leave creation theories since they vary from one religion to the other.

I'm glad you ask me this very good question. That's the spirit now. Learn.

The answer is that Allah (God Almighty) has no gender. Why do you refer to a car as "SHE"? Why do you refer to a ship as "SHE"? Why does God refer to both female and male as "MAN"?

So God does not have animal attributes of sexual needs. He does not need wife. He does not give birth. He does not have sex. Hence He does not have a son. God creates! Whatever He wills, he just says it, and it becomes!

So even the concept you were taught while you were young that God beget a son is false. In fact that verse has been expunged from the Bible, because it was a fabrication Laughing out loudly

The most formidable weapon againist errors of every kind is REASON.
FEAR GOD
AlphDoti
#56 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:34:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
KIKItheKING wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
KIKItheKING wrote:
@AlphaDoti you have strong beliefs. Your beliefs. But first, answer the question you have been avoiding. Why is God reffered as HE? Lets leave creation theories since they vary from one religion to the other.

I'm glad you ask me this very good question. That's the spirit now. Learn.

The answer is that Allah (God Almighty) has no gender. Why do you refer to a car as "SHE"? Why do you refer to a ship as "SHE"? Why does God refer to both female and male as "MAN"?

So God does not have animal attributes of sexual needs. He does not need wife. He does not give birth. He does not have sex. Hence He does not have a son. God creates! Whatever He wills, he just says it, and it becomes!

So even the concept you were taught while you were young that God beget a son is false. In fact that verse has been expunged from the Bible, because it was a fabrication Laughing out loudly

The most formidable weapon againist errors of every kind is REASON.

And I hope you see the REASON?

And by the way, Islam teaches that there is only one God. There is no "Muslim God", "Christian God", or "Jewish God". There is only the One true Almighty God who created the universe. The God of everything, living as well as non-living. The creator of all humans, me and you, whether they call themselves Hindus, Jews, Christians, or Muslims.

It is only the concept that varies. So I'm happy when you ask me about the concepts.
KIKItheKING
#57 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:46:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
As @Alphadoti have stated that God does not have a son. Many of Christians i know disagree with him on that. What is unanimous including all our cultural beliefs is that God is the Supreme being.

Not to de_rail this thread further i will rest my case on religion. Since its necessary to the happiness of man that he be faithful to himself.

FEAR GOD
AlphDoti
#58 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 8:09:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
KIKItheKING wrote:
As @Alphadoti have stated that God does not have a son. Many of Christians i know disagree with him on that. What is unanimous including all our cultural beliefs is that God is the Supreme being.

Not to de_rail this thread further i will rest my case on religion. Since its necessary to the happiness of man that he be faithful to himself.

@kiki, don't raise up your hands to learning Laughing out loudly

One more point I would like to know is that Islam is not a new religion. It is no an invention of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Actually it is the religion of all prophets from Adam to Noah to Abraham to David to Jesus to Muhammad (peace be upon them all). So the name "Islam" is Arabic word that meas total submission to the Will of Almighty God.

Also, Islam approves of all the prophets of God. Islam also approves of all the scriptures of God, from the Torah of Moses, to the Psalms of David, to the Gospel of Jesus, and finally the Quran. All these scriptures, use "He" to refer to God.

Unfortunately, people get the impression that God is male. God is only One so male and female does not arise. Later on, human concepts like father and son in Christian theology was borrowed from Mithraism religion. St. Paul, when he went to the city of Tarsus, which had a long history of Mithra worship.
Paul was so eager to win the Gentiles, so he deliberately incorporated beliefs of the Mithraism into his gospel of Gentile Christianity.
AlphDoti
#59 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 8:13:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
So even a concept like TRINITY was never preached by any prophet. Even Jesus never preached about this. Now you're a big boy. Please do research now. Find out when this TRINITY story came about. It's not even in the Bible. And the only close verse in the Bible that the creators on TRINITY used to convince the church has been removed as interpolation. The verse has been removed from the Bible in revised versions.

It was Paul who came up with these concepts Pray Liar
KIKItheKING
#60 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 8:52:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2015
Posts: 125
Learning is infinate but you @Alphadoti have NOTHING whatsoever to teach me.

I have always avoided urguements with people who have been brainwashed by religion. Since its impossible to reason with them. Islam will never be everybodys religion. You need to accept that and move on.

Its okay to defend your faith but its not smart to go trying to convert everybody.

Islam of all religions has its flaws. Alot of them. But what do i stnd to gain from such an urguement?

Every man has a right to profess whatever faith he wishes. And every man must have his opinion. He who tries to deny the other that right makes a slave of himself to his present opinion since he precludes himself the right of changing it.

Soo @Alphadoti be content with what your prophet Muhammed teaches you and let others be.
FEAR GOD
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