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Thika Road Expansion was a Mistake
knight260
#241 Posted : Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:11:09 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/11/2014
Posts: 16

``Advantages of Road Pricing:

In the view of many economists and transportation experts, toll roads, and pricing roads more generally, offer important advantages in transportation. At present TCA realizes some of the benefits of road pricing by raising funds to pay for construction and using some peak period pricing to manage congestion. Moreover, the technology exists and can be employed in the future to take advantage of more of the potential advantages, should they choose to do so. Key among these are:
• Efficiency: Toll roads, when used to reduce congestion through charges that reflect current utilization, send signals to consumers about the full cost of using the road. This includes not only wear-and-tear costs, but the costs imposed by an additional driver on the travel speed of all other drivers. Toll pricing allows for rational decisions on the part of consumers – they can choose to avoid unnecessary trips and to time-shift trips to less congested times. A 1995 study of California roadways found that current congestion is under-priced by a factor of nine, while prices at uncongested times are twice the appropriate level.

• Building the Right Facilities: Without proper price signals (including lack of any direct charges), building expensive new urban roadways leads to continually increasing congestion. In the absence of proper pricing, this result is likely. With pricing, however, the over-use of a facility is kept in check, and if congestion rises, prices rise.

• Providing Funding: If congestion rises, prices rise and provide the mechanism (and signal) to fund the project. Bond financing can be raised to pay for the project, with the future toll collections used as collateral.
• Reducing Sprawl: Urban sprawl is the direct result of under-pricing roadways. If drivers were required to pay the true cost of using a roadway, there would be less incentive to keep moving further away from job centers.

• Fairness: Users pay for their use in proportion to their use. Where congestion charges (or time-of-day pricing) can be implemented, they pay for the cost they impose on each other through congestion.

• Greater Safety: According to studies, the accident rate on toll roads – where the flow of traffic is more even – is lower.
• Matching Costs and Benefits: Most roadways are funded through gasoline excise taxes. These taxes do not measure costs imposed by driving – they fail to address differences in fuel economy and the maintenance cost imposed by different vehicle weights. A toll system charges for use directly.

• Increased Fuel Economy: By increasing the overall capacity of a region’s transportation system, toll roads are able to absorb some of the traffic that would otherwise use non-toll highways and interstates. The result is a decrease in overall traffic congestion. Vehicles on both toll and non-toll roadways are able to move at more fuel efficient speeds.''


knight260
#242 Posted : Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:18:17 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/11/2014
Posts: 16
Now check point number 2, and look what the first person in the thread wrote.
Lolest!
#243 Posted : Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:11:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
knight260 wrote:
Stop being emotional. You cant compare the two. Simply because, their road networks were expanded as their economies grew, but still they insisted on public transportation. We will be acting irrational, if we go same route, only to realize that its impossible to expand road networks to infinity. Nobody says ban private cars, simply regulate during rush hours, sawa kijana?

SIMPLE. Make alternative means more acceptable to the middle class and then put something to discourage. Even if it's charges! The train coaches currently look rusty and dirty. Rail needs to be serious business and govt priority.

Otherwise we may have to do roads every 2 years!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Speculz
#244 Posted : Wednesday, February 25, 2015 9:53:55 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/6/2011
Posts: 391
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Sometimes, when someone feels he is so knowledgeable in a field that he he has to amount to insults, one is tempted to let them be.

This is simple debate. We don't have to agree. I wonder who told people here that they are the only learned ones. Even if they were, is it so impossible to impart your knowledge without being obnoxious?? Jamaa, hapo umetuangusha. Even @impunity beats you in that! He at least tries to explain his stuff(railway) for the benefit of others here in wazua.

And who said only economists should be involved in planning? We spend lots of money in our public institutions training Spatial Planners, Civil Engineers, Land Economists etc. Just because one studied Econ shouldn't give them sole rights to determine spatial planning in our towns/cities

Seriously Maich, there were some guys blaming traffic on ma3s only(this happens often). You never opposed them! Why? Because for you, this argument is personal. They want you to use public and forfeit your private means for public. It's not really about the real pros and cons of whichever measure guys have proposed, it's just about your comfort.

Of course govt mustn't ban. It should discourage and while at it work on alternative means. That's what I hold. Blaming ma3s like speculz is doing is leaving the antelope hunt to chase a squirrel!

Be sure to do your UNBIASED paper(which I promise to read). Please factor in lost man hours. The economist in you should know that that is detrimental to the economy like in @murchr's case!

Quote:
Prof. Marion Mutungi, reminded attendants that “Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt.”




please point out where I put blame to matatus ,Stop burying your head in the sand ,you know what happens in that industry when demand exceeds supply . Why should I use 100 for a ten minute trip and I can use a car that will use 50 minus the stress ? we just need transport solutions that are convenient ,safe and efficient .Thats all .
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Stephen Wright
timbosho
#245 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:02:18 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/23/2013
Posts: 34
Lolest! wrote:
knight260 wrote:
Stop being emotional. You cant compare the two. Simply because, their road networks were expanded as their economies grew, but still they insisted on public transportation. We will be acting irrational, if we go same route, only to realize that its impossible to expand road networks to infinity. Nobody says ban private cars, simply regulate during rush hours, sawa kijana?

SIMPLE. Make alternative means more acceptable to the middle class and then put something to discourage. Even if it's charges! The train coaches currently look rusty and dirty. Rail needs to be serious business and govt priority.

Otherwise we may have to do roads every 2 years!


If there were regular rail services, say every hour or so, linking the different areas of Nairobi eg Eastlando -> CBD-> Westi and back or Syokimau->Westi and back and then Eastlando->Syokimau, I am sure most people would leave their cars at home. Couple this with higher taxes on vehicle usage (parking fee, congestion charge etc), and moving government services and offices to residential areas, traffic jam will reduce significantly. There will be a loss of investment and employment in the matatu sector that will have to be taken care of but overall the larger society will be better off. However, given our pathetic history of taking shortcuts and avoiding doing what needs to be done, its much easier to ban private cars, all other options are conveniently forgotten.
knight260
#246 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:17:03 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/11/2014
Posts: 16
Lolest!
#247 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:03:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
knight260 wrote:
http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/DN2/The-City-in-the-Sun-has-become-City-in-the-Jam/-/957860/2634164/-/m2do6w/-/index.html

Quote:
China holds the world record for the longest traffic jam, chalked in August 2010 when a single bumper-to-bumper extended beyond 100 kilometres in Hebei province.

The streets were turned into a parking lot for 11 days as the gridlock proved unmanageable.


See how cities with higher number of vehicles per capita are congested? Even if you do those barabara za gorofa we wont ease traffic in the long run. Number of vehicles will increase to match the good roads.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#248 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:09:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
If there were regular rail services, say every hour or so, linking the different areas of Nairobi eg Eastlando -> CBD-> Westi and back or Syokimau->Westi and back and then Eastlando->Syokimau, I am NOT sure most people would leave their cars at home. Couple this with higher taxes on vehicle usage (parking fee, congestion charge etc), and moving government services and offices to residential areas, traffic jam will reduce significantly. There will be a loss of investment and employment in the matatu sector that will have to be taken care of but overall the larger society will be better off. However, given our pathetic history of taking shortcuts and avoiding doing what needs to be done, its much easier to ban private cars, all other options are conveniently forgotten.

Trains need not operate round the clock like matatu/buses. That will leave akina matatuman, rankaz etc with biz to do

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Impunity
#249 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:56:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
If there were regular rail services, say every hour or so, linking the different areas of Nairobi eg Eastlando -> CBD-> Westi and back or Syokimau->Westi and back and then Eastlando->Syokimau, I am NOT sure most people would leave their cars at home. Couple this with higher taxes on vehicle usage (parking fee, congestion charge etc), and moving government services and offices to residential areas, traffic jam will reduce significantly. There will be a loss of investment and employment in the matatu sector that will have to be taken care of but overall the larger society will be better off. However, given our pathetic history of taking shortcuts and avoiding doing what needs to be done, its much easier to ban private cars, all other options are conveniently forgotten.

Trains need not operate round the clock like matatu/buses. That will leave akina matatuman, rankaz etc with biz to do



We need regular shorter trains operating every 30 mins; and these should be light trains, actually overland or suspended track metros...
I would not vouch for Trams with the kind of motorist we have, zitagongwo left right and centre.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

tinker
#250 Posted : Friday, February 27, 2015 9:58:17 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 454
Location: Nairobi
Its simple, we all know the solution to traffic congestion in our cities is investment in affordable and reliable mass transport system such as light metro train.

Having said above, we are all hoping and praying that the mass transport system be implemented so as we can be 'alone' in traffic free road.

Me too am addicted to my Jalopy!!
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
tinker
#251 Posted : Friday, February 27, 2015 10:00:13 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 454
Location: Nairobi
Its simple, we all know the solution to traffic congestion in our cities is investment in affordable and reliable mass transport system such as light metro train.

Having said above, we are all hoping and praying that the mass transport system be implemented so as we can be 'alone' in traffic free road.

Me too am addicted to my Jalopy!!
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
murchr
#252 Posted : Saturday, February 28, 2015 4:36:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Nation wrote:
Nairobi Governor Evans Kidero is set to sign a deal with Japan to introduce commuter trains in the capital.

In a statement sent to newsrooms, Dr Kidero, who has been on a week-long trip to Japan, said he would commit the capital city to a deal to adopt the Yurikamome Mass Transit Automated Guideway Train system. Nairobi Governor Evans Kidero is set to sign a deal with Japan to introduce commuter trains in the capital.

In a statement sent to newsrooms, Dr Kidero, who has been on a week-long trip to Japan, said he would commit the capital city to a deal to adopt the Yurikamome Mass Transit Automated Guideway Train system.


It remains to be seen if the cartels will let this happen
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
limanika
#253 Posted : Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:52:55 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
We could reduce the use of private cars by 30-50% if we ensured that: 1) the access roads to all major estates within 5km along entire superhighway are developed to bitumen standard 2) ensure there is regular and structured public transport system in every of these estates if their population exceeds a certain threshold 3) to avoid the inconvenience of having to transit for those who do not work in CBD, modify the public transport routes. For instance, there can be a bus traveling from Thika to westlands, another to Ind.area, Ngong, etc. Once this is up and running, introduce something like private car levy at toll station. If we do not address the root cause, even what kidraw is doing will end up like the cctvs & traffic lights
murchr
#254 Posted : Wednesday, March 04, 2015 6:22:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
murchr wrote:
Nation wrote:
Nairobi Governor Evans Kidero is set to sign a deal with Japan to introduce commuter trains in the capital.

In a statement sent to newsrooms, Dr Kidero, who has been on a week-long trip to Japan, said he would commit the capital city to a deal to adopt the Yurikamome Mass Transit Automated Guideway Train system. Nairobi Governor Evans Kidero is set to sign a deal with Japan to introduce commuter trains in the capital.

In a statement sent to newsrooms, Dr Kidero, who has been on a week-long trip to Japan, said he would commit the capital city to a deal to adopt the Yurikamome Mass Transit Automated Guideway Train system.


It remains to be seen if the cartels will let this happen


Del
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Lolest!
#255 Posted : Wednesday, March 04, 2015 6:36:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
tinker wrote:
Its simple, we all know the solution to traffic congestion in our cities is investment in affordable and reliable mass transport system such as light metro train.

Having said above, we are all hoping and praying that the mass transport system be implemented so as we can be 'alone' in traffic free road.

Me too am addicted to my Jalopy!!
y
The addiction to your car can be mitigated by some small charge
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
butterflyke
#256 Posted : Wednesday, March 04, 2015 7:25:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 3,024
Location: Hapa


Why buses represent democracy
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
wukan
#257 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 3:44:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
How is it that we spent Sh32 billion on Thika Road to make the condition of drivers, which was horrible to start with, even worse? This is the only road in Kenya where there is a jam before 6am.

Living anywhere on this road is the equivalent of living in Kariobangi South, Umoja, Komarock and other parts of deep Eastlands, a decade ago. If you have an 8am meeting, you have to leave your house at 5.45am, to be in the office by 6.30am, whereupon you sleepily stare at the rafters for an hour-and-a-half. If you leave at 6am, with overlappers and underlappers sandwiching you, there is no guarantee you will ever arrive.


https://www.nation.co.ke...78852-wkcgbjz/index.html
tinker
#258 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 4:59:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 454
Location: Nairobi
I used Thika Road last Monday and I couldn't believe it. I was at Garden City/Ngumba Estate area at 7.30 am and I got to Forest road at 8.30 am. that is one hour for a distance less than 10 Km. Well, I thought may be there was an issue/incident ahead (That I did not see) until I read the above article. I never knew this is daily experience. Thank God I live in Rongai.

It is high time we think and implement light rail mass transport system. Our neighbours-Habesh has done it, we too can implement it.
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
murchr
#259 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:11:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Lolest! wrote:
tinker wrote:
Its simple, we all know the solution to traffic congestion in our cities is investment in affordable and reliable mass transport system such as light metro train.

Having said above, we are all hoping and praying that the mass transport system be implemented so as we can be 'alone' in traffic free road.

Me too am addicted to my Jalopy!!
y
The addiction to your car can be mitigated by some small charge


A reliable mass transport system comes after roads.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
murchr
#260 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:19:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
wukan wrote:
Quote:
How is it that we spent Sh32 billion on Thika Road to make the condition of drivers, which was horrible to start with, even worse? This is the only road in Kenya where there is a jam before 6am.

Living anywhere on this road is the equivalent of living in Kariobangi South, Umoja, Komarock and other parts of deep Eastlands, a decade ago. If you have an 8am meeting, you have to leave your house at 5.45am, to be in the office by 6.30am, whereupon you sleepily stare at the rafters for an hour-and-a-half. If you leave at 6am, with overlappers and underlappers sandwiching you, there is no guarantee you will ever arrive.


https://www.nation.co.ke...8852-wkcgbjz/index.html


If this author thinks Thika road is worse than when the road was expanded he's being delusional. Ignoring the fact that there was massive development and major migration to that part of town is being ignorant to the core.

For those who were born after 2009, here is thika rd just after construction commenced.





Btw, another bogus article from Nation
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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