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Thika Road Expansion was a Mistake
knight260
#201 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 9:00:50 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/11/2014
Posts: 16
Maich,all experts in urban planning recommend public transport to solve traffic menace. London is the best example. You pay 11.5 pounds just to access cbd with a price car during rush hours (congestion charge). Expanding roads is a futile exercise; thika rd is the best testimony.
Kihara joni
#202 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 9:47:22 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/8/2013
Posts: 386
Location: Nyali mombasa
problem with Thika road is in the CBD
1.koja round about is one of this
2.make Kirinyaga road a one way road draining thika road
3.Moi avenues is also one one big mess because of the matatu stages
move all stages to the small roads like the accra road up country stage,
Githurai stage causes all the jam on racecourse,
4Those bumps on thika road are a great put off.
5.The underpasses like the ones of TRM,Kimbo, githurai,Kahawa are sometimes very messy, I don't know why.

MaichBlack
#203 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 9:56:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


What should be the solution?

Why is CBD congested? People driving round in circles looking for parking - sometimes for an hour plus. Solution? High rise and underground parking owned and managed by the County. And I am talking about Japan style parking. Locate four of the parking lots in different corners of the CBD (a couple inside CBD). Charge the same parking fee as street parking and issue the same receipts so that even if I am in the CBD for an hour then drive to Westlands I don't have to pay again. Have those parking lots/buildings installed with CCTV cameras with a manned observation centre making them more secure than the streets. This will encourage people to park there.

After you have done that, improve public transport. High speed trains, trams etc. Let people VOLUNTEER to use public transport. And this is easy. If one can get into a train or tram and have a safe and comfortable ride and get into town in 15 minutes, he would surely prefer that mode of transport if he is one of those fellows who are in the office 8 - 5.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Fyatu
#204 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 10:08:22 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
Lolest! wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
The problem with this country Kenya is government cannot implement policy. What they have done in Dar is that instead of putting up more lanes they have put a lane dedicated to massive buses complete with bustops....where the buses operate on schedule like KBS used to operate in the 80's. No dala dala will be going to town once this project is complete. Stage ya mwisho ni ubungo (12kms from Dar CBD)

Here in Kenya its all talk and no action and most of it hogwash eti oh Nairobi is the biggest city in EA/modern city blah blah blah

Kidero's solution to the mess is basi ya gorofa kwanza to be operated by city hoppa...woi...Nairobians kwisha and now Sonko and Waititu are feuding for the sit ambayo tayari Kidero amekalia.

Are Matatu owners association bigger than Government? Who does the Govt. serve?? wana-ninchi or Matatu owners association?

eti if we do away with Mats the youth will loose jobs and resort to crime. Employ them as policemen or NYS

Personal cars are the elephant in the room, buddy!

Tuko KCC sasa? these are vehicles coming to congest a road in your city/town.

Blaming matatus is easy to do, but just look at that 33 seater next to you in traffic. If each of those guys chose to drive to work instead of using public means you'd extend the time spent in traffic by a couple of more minutes

Work on alternative means like rail and discouraging use of personal cars. Matatu sector is an issue but a minor one. Ever wondered why traffic is heaviest during matatu strikes??



Yes indeed you are right. I read somewhere (sina link) that Kenyans import 10,000 cars per month or something of the sorts. After some thought, i concur with fellow wazuans who have opined that hefty charges be introduced to deter people from using personal cars in CBD.

Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
MaichBlack
#205 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 10:09:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Good point @speculz. All along I was very sure they would do an overpass from Ngara towards Moi Avenue/University way. Shock on me!!! They took all that traffic and poured it onto a roundabout serving vehicles from town, Westlands and the whole of West of Kenya. And to make matters worse, almost all vehicles (especially public vehicles) from Westlands, Western, Kitale, Nakuru, wherever (the list is endless) have to use the same round about!!! Reminds me of a teacher in High School who used to state with authority, "Common sense is not common!!!" Whoever designed the road - or that section could not see the obvious???

They should have done at least three levels at Globe like they did in pangani. Normal level, underpass, Overpass.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
so
#206 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 11:31:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/16/2006
Posts: 3
Location: NAIROBI
MaichBlack wrote:
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


What should be the solution?

Why is CBD congested? People driving round in circles looking for parking - sometimes for an hour plus. Solution? High rise and underground parking owned and managed by the County. And I am talking about Japan style parking. Locate four of the parking lots in different corners of the CBD (a couple inside CBD). Charge the same parking fee as street parking and issue the same receipts so that even if I am in the CBD for an hour then drive to Westlands I don't have to pay again. Have those parking lots/buildings installed with CCTV cameras with a manned observation centre making them more secure than the streets. This will encourage people to park there.

After you have done that, improve public transport. High speed trains, trams etc. Let people VOLUNTEER to use public transport. And this is easy. If one can get into a train or tram and have a safe and comfortable ride and get into town in 15 minutes, he would surely prefer that mode of transport if he is one of those fellows who are in the office 8 - 5.



The current status of Thika road is really wanting, by 6am Jam is building at Safari park. Every body want to leave early, we need trains, more roads, more trafic cops, footbridges etc before the outering road is done and all the vehicles pour to the superhighway taking us back to where we were when it was a two lanes...

Since all this may take eternity, why then dont we make easy to get to CBD for now, at least we see how it can work. During rush hrs, all the private vehicles should use the service lane (they are 2 lanes anyway) while the PSV use the superhighway itself.(There are 4 lanes, one can cater for stages at different points, that way thousands of commuters will be getting to town faster and cheaper.....creating an incentive for PSV while not limiting private vehicles access to CBD..........
Speculz
#207 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 11:47:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/6/2011
Posts: 391
Location: Nairobi
so wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


What should be the solution?

Why is CBD congested? People driving round in circles looking for parking - sometimes for an hour plus. Solution? High rise and underground parking owned and managed by the County. And I am talking about Japan style parking. Locate four of the parking lots in different corners of the CBD (a couple inside CBD). Charge the same parking fee as street parking and issue the same receipts so that even if I am in the CBD for an hour then drive to Westlands I don't have to pay again. Have those parking lots/buildings installed with CCTV cameras with a manned observation centre making them more secure than the streets. This will encourage people to park there.

After you have done that, improve public transport. High speed trains, trams etc. Let people VOLUNTEER to use public transport. And this is easy. If one can get into a train or tram and have a safe and comfortable ride and get into town in 15 minutes, he would surely prefer that mode of transport if he is one of those fellows who are in the office 8 - 5.



The current status of Thika road is really wanting, by 6am Jam is building at Safari park. Every body want to leave early, we need trains, more roads, more trafic cops, footbridges etc before the outering road is done and all the vehicles pour to the superhighway taking us back to where we were when it was a two lanes...

Since all this may take eternity, why then dont we make easy to get to CBD for now, at least we see how it can work. During rush hrs, all the private vehicles should use the service lane (they are 2 lanes anyway) while the PSV use the superhighway itself.(There are 4 lanes, one can cater for stages at different points, that way thousands of commuters will be getting to town faster and cheaper.....creating an incentive for PSV while not limiting private vehicles access to CBD..........



Are you serious? If you are then its absurd , so according to your solution, where will the private cars end up?
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Stephen Wright
Swenani
#208 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 12:42:24 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
MaichBlack wrote:
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


What should be the solution?

Why is CBD congested? People driving round in circles looking for parking - sometimes for an hour plus. Solution? High rise and underground parking owned and managed by the County. And I am talking about Japan style parking. Locate four of the parking lots in different corners of the CBD (a couple inside CBD). Charge the same parking fee as street parking and issue the same receipts so that even if I am in the CBD for an hour then drive to Westlands I don't have to pay again. Have those parking lots/buildings installed with CCTV cameras with a manned observation centre making them more secure than the streets. This will encourage people to park there.

After you have done that, improve public transport. High speed trains, trams etc. Let people VOLUNTEER to use public transport. And this is easy. If one can get into a train or tram and have a safe and comfortable ride and get into town in 15 minutes, he would surely prefer that mode of transport if he is one of those fellows who are in the office 8 - 5.


You are making a grave mistake to assume that kenyans are rational
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
dunkang
#209 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 1:11:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


Like some offices moving out of the C.B.D to say, Mathare, Korogocho, Githurai, Mwiki, etc. This, will surely decongest the C.B.D!!!!!

Imagine, what if UNEP was in C.B.D or Upperhill???? Hiyo Traffic jameni!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

smallfama
#210 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 1:23:55 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/15/2010
Posts: 99
Location: nairobi
Why are we assuming gova has the local mwananchi at heart? If you use PSV the govt has ni business with you except of course the fact that you will still vote in your local idiot come the next election. We need these private cars in the CBD for parking fees to kanjo. Instead of thinking of decongesting the city, CCN wants to construct a highrise car park at the sunken car park right in the CBD. We need those second hand vehicle imports so that we can collect more tax from the importers, we need also to import and use more fuel oil so that we can collect taxes from it and also enrich the few who own oil marketing companies. We need to constantly construct and expand roads around Nbi to enrich our contractor friends. We also need to make sure the rail transport is dead to ensure business for our trucking companies. Finally we need to laugh at our neighbors Tz and Ethipia for investing in bus rapist transport and light commuter rail hahaha those communists!!!
Pesa Nane
#211 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 1:59:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/25/2012
Posts: 4,105
Location: 08c
smallfama wrote:
Why are we assuming gova has the local mwananchi at heart? If you use PSV the govt has ni business with you except of course the fact that you will still vote in your local idiot come the next election. We need these private cars in the CBD for parking fees to kanjo. Instead of thinking of decongesting the city, CCN wants to construct a highrise car park at the sunken car park right in the CBD. We need those second hand vehicle imports so that we can collect more tax from the importers, we need also to import and use more fuel oil so that we can collect taxes from it and also enrich the few who own oil marketing companies. We need to constantly construct and expand roads around Nbi to enrich our contractor friends. We also need to make sure the rail transport is dead to ensure business for our trucking companies. Finally we need to laugh at our neighbors Tz and Ethipia for investing in bus rapist transport and light commuter rail hahaha those communists!!!

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
Sigiriri
#212 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 2:13:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
I think dealing with this one as though it is a thika road problem is what is myopic. This is a Nairobi city problem. Mombasa has it's fair share too but that's for another day.
There are simply too many cars coming into and out of the city during the same 2-3 hours durations every other work day. This is the crux of it.
How do you deal with too many cars? Either have limitless lanes into and within the city or do the only thing which will work: DECONGEST.
In my view, decongesting the city can be done by:
*Providing a working public transport infrastructure (so people can volunteer to use PSV not private cars)
*Provide infrastructure for other means of transport e.g cyclists
*Decentralise the economy. Move industries, major employers who do not need to be in CBD out of the city. This works magic on cost of living too.
*Discourage use of private cars by a)raising the parking fee to close to 11.5GBP for street level parking. b)Reduce street parking slots and hence expand roads for better intra-city circulation.
Note the last point hardly works where the first 2 are not in place.
smallfama
#213 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 2:20:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/15/2010
Posts: 99
Location: nairobi
Pesa Nane wrote:
smallfama wrote:
Why are we assuming gova has the local mwananchi at heart? If you use PSV the govt has ni business with you except of course the fact that you will still vote in your local idiot come the next election. We need these private cars in the CBD for parking fees to kanjo. Instead of thinking of decongesting the city, CCN wants to construct a highrise car park at the sunken car park right in the CBD. We need those second hand vehicle imports so that we can collect more tax from the importers, we need also to import and use more fuel oil so that we can collect taxes from it and also enrich the few who own oil marketing companies. We need to constantly construct and expand roads around Nbi to enrich our contractor friends. We also need to make sure the rail transport is dead to ensure business for our trucking companies. Finally we need to laugh at our neighbors Tz and Ethipia for investing in bus rapist transport and light commuter rail hahaha those communists!!!

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


Rapid not rapist.
so
#214 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 2:49:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/16/2006
Posts: 3
Location: NAIROBI
Speculz wrote:
so wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


What should be the solution?

Why is CBD congested? People driving round in circles looking for parking - sometimes for an hour plus. Solution? High rise and underground parking owned and managed by the County. And I am talking about Japan style parking. Locate four of the parking lots in different corners of the CBD (a couple inside CBD). Charge the same parking fee as street parking and issue the same receipts so that even if I am in the CBD for an hour then drive to Westlands I don't have to pay again. Have those parking lots/buildings installed with CCTV cameras with a manned observation centre making them more secure than the streets. This will encourage people to park there.

After you have done that, improve public transport. High speed trains, trams etc. Let people VOLUNTEER to use public transport. And this is easy. If one can get into a train or tram and have a safe and comfortable ride and get into town in 15 minutes, he would surely prefer that mode of transport if he is one of those fellows who are in the office 8 - 5.



The current status of Thika road is really wanting, by 6am Jam is building at Safari park. Every body want to leave early, we need trains, more roads, more trafic cops, footbridges etc before the outering road is done and all the vehicles pour to the superhighway taking us back to where we were when it was a two lanes...

Since all this may take eternity, why then dont we make easy to get to CBD for now, at least we see how it can work. During rush hrs, all the private vehicles should use the service lane (they are 2 lanes anyway) while the PSV use the superhighway itself.(There are 4 lanes, one can cater for stages at different points, that way thousands of commuters will be getting to town faster and cheaper.....creating an incentive for PSV while not limiting private vehicles access to CBD..........



Are you serious? If you are then its absurd , so according to your solution, where will the private cars end up?


@Speculz, the bottom of this approach is to discourage use of private vehicles at peak hours. To understand better the genesis of jam in kenya or thika superhighway is down to specifically 3 things, 1. pple taking one route (CBD), 2. pple using same mode (road), & 3. pple travelling at the same time (rush hrs). to fully address this it calls for a holistic approach with alot of investment which may not be available. and after all this investment its a vicious cycle as transport capacity is expanded more pple shift to those areas (good case of thika superhighway).dilema is, its hard to have jam free roads, and since we Kanju and others cant agree to chase away private vehicles from cbd due to interest, then we can only limit their number on the roads, by designating roads for PSV and private expecting the private to suffer more in rush hr. More investor trho govt or PPP shud come in to provide decent PSV system..........
Sober
#215 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 3:02:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
so wrote:
Speculz wrote:
so wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why do people always have lazy solutions to everything?

Banning private cars from the CBD is as lazy as they come!! How many cars do we have in Nairobi? Some of the cities people are alluding to here have more cars than the entire population (people) of Kenya!

There many other solutions that would not include banning private cars or increasing parking fee even further. People only need to think. But that doesn't happen a lot in Kenya!


What should be the solution?

Why is CBD congested? People driving round in circles looking for parking - sometimes for an hour plus. Solution? High rise and underground parking owned and managed by the County. And I am talking about Japan style parking. Locate four of the parking lots in different corners of the CBD (a couple inside CBD). Charge the same parking fee as street parking and issue the same receipts so that even if I am in the CBD for an hour then drive to Westlands I don't have to pay again. Have those parking lots/buildings installed with CCTV cameras with a manned observation centre making them more secure than the streets. This will encourage people to park there.

After you have done that, improve public transport. High speed trains, trams etc. Let people VOLUNTEER to use public transport. And this is easy. If one can get into a train or tram and have a safe and comfortable ride and get into town in 15 minutes, he would surely prefer that mode of transport if he is one of those fellows who are in the office 8 - 5.



The current status of Thika road is really wanting, by 6am Jam is building at Safari park. Every body want to leave early, we need trains, more roads, more trafic cops, footbridges etc before the outering road is done and all the vehicles pour to the superhighway taking us back to where we were when it was a two lanes...

Since all this may take eternity, why then dont we make easy to get to CBD for now, at least we see how it can work. During rush hrs, all the private vehicles should use the service lane (they are 2 lanes anyway) while the PSV use the superhighway itself.(There are 4 lanes, one can cater for stages at different points, that way thousands of commuters will be getting to town faster and cheaper.....creating an incentive for PSV while not limiting private vehicles access to CBD..........



Are you serious? If you are then its absurd , so according to your solution, where will the private cars end up?


@Speculz, the bottom of this approach is to discourage use of private vehicles at peak hours. To understand better the genesis of jam in kenya or thika superhighway is down to specifically 3 things, 1. pple taking one route (CBD), 2. pple using same mode (road), & 3. pple travelling at the same time (rush hrs). to fully address this it calls for a holistic approach with alot of investment which may not be available. and after all this investment its a vicious cycle as transport capacity is expanded more pple shift to those areas (good case of thika superhighway).dilema is, its hard to have jam free roads, and since we Kanju and others cant agree to chase away private vehicles from cbd due to interest, then we can only limit their number on the roads, by designating roads for PSV and private expecting the private to suffer more in rush hr. More investor trho govt or PPP shud come in to provide decent PSV system..........

Applause Applause I see someone in reasoning here
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
Fyatu
#216 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 3:21:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
smallfama wrote:
Why are we assuming gova has the local mwananchi at heart? If you use PSV the govt has ni business with you except of course the fact that you will still vote in your local idiot come the next election. We need these private cars in the CBD for parking fees to kanjo. Instead of thinking of decongesting the city, CCN wants to construct a highrise car park at the sunken car park right in the CBD. We need those second hand vehicle imports so that we can collect more tax from the importers, we need also to import and use more fuel oil so that we can collect taxes from it and also enrich the few who own oil marketing companies. We need to constantly construct and expand roads around Nbi to enrich our contractor friends. We also need to make sure the rail transport is dead to ensure business for our trucking companies. Finally we need to laugh at our neighbors Tz and Ethipia for investing in bus rapist transport and light commuter rail hahaha those communists!!!



While go.ke is busy setting up committees after committees to beg capitalists (running public transport)who will do anything to ensure a chaotic public transport system remains, the communists are doing less talk and actually implementing. Most road reserves have also been grabbed in KE by the capitalists......damned capitalism. A retired mzee once confided in me that the original Nairobi plan had a city tram/train system running along Ngongroad through Kenyatta avenue with the current imenti house supposed to be a rail station(mwisho wa gari)...the train was supposedly to go underground once it reached community all through to Imenti house
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
Lolest!
#217 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 3:35:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
Add to that , leave private vehicles home right? okay, what will happen when we are all crowded at the stage? laws of demand and supply. Soon congestion will be back as everyone will have bought a matatu to meet the demand and reap from the hiked prices, and some people do use cars for business , time is money after all.


NO speculz, no. Not everybody will buy a matatu. Just a few will.

Assume there are 100 guys on Sicker Rd using private means in the morning rush hour. Let's also assume they are couples sharing a car thus you end up with 50 cars on the road in that 2-3 hr period

If you convince them to take public means, it would mean you will have 8 No 13 seater ma3s, or 3 No. 33 seater, or 2 No 50 seater buses

Traffic cant be the same!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#218 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 3:41:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
and there is no problem with those who have to use their cars. Let them use them on Thicker Rd or any other rd so long as there is a premium apart from normal vehicle running expenses charged!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#219 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 4:10:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
and some people do use cars for business , time is money after all.

agreed. After all of us bring our cars out, how much time and money is wasted??
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
limanika
#220 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 4:12:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Sorry I haven't read all the comments, but if Thika rd expansion was a mistake, then the original construction itself must have been the bigger mistake??
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