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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,838
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And why are we rewarding mediocrity??? Is the government telling us that individuals running private schools are doing a much better job than the government and the government is resigned to that fact? I will tell you something free of charge. Teachers in MOST private schools are less qualified, less experienced, more overworked and earn less than their counter parts in public schools. The main reason private schools perform better is because the teachers are held accountable for the performance of their students and there is a proper follow up and audit all the way from lower classes. If you don't believe me, dare any teacher in a public school to join a private school. The can't even dare. In most public schools all you have to do is show up. Go to class, talk to yourself if you feel like and wait for end month. The government should run public schools like private schools in terms of managing staff and setting targets! I understand affirmative action in the case of students from Mandera and other disadvantaged areas but students in the same estate in the same county??? Seriously??? We are neighbours, we go to neighbouring school only that one is private and the other one is public and you are admitted to the school of my choice with 380 marks and I am left out with my 420 marks??? Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Why are people complaining as if they don't know what is happening???
the problem is not the computer algorithm.
Those who designed the system, I am pretty sure, just translated what used to be manually done into a computer language.
e.g for national schools.
Check no. of districts/counties or the educational levels they use.
Check available spaces in National schools (which i believe are ranked. Alliance High school is not in the same league as the newly created National schools)
Check top students from this districts/counties
Check which school they picked as first choice... If top student in Machakos picked AHS, place him in AHS.. This caters for pupils even in marginalised areas...
Check if we still have space in AHS...
If there is still space.. check the passmark of remaining students. if they qualified and picked AHS please place them in AHS. If spaces are full move candidate to second choice National school.
The bright candidates, based on the districts, should fit into the national schools and provincial schools.. period!
But what is happening is, my dear Wazuans, Kenyans wont just let the systems run as programmed.
Parents go to the min of Education/heads of schools and feed their children's' names directly into the system...
In short, watu wanapeana hongo in December, even before the selection starts. Nothing to do with ranking and its removal..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,838
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nakujua wrote:MaichBlack wrote:There are replacement algorithms that can be used.
First, All National School (and later the others) choose students based on their first choice. Each school is now "full".
Second, all National Schools "choose" students based on their second choice. If there is a student who had higher marks than one who had already been picked based on the first choice, he/she replaces that student and the one with lower marks is returned to the pool and subjected to a re - check based on his or her second choice to see if he can replace someone in his second choice school.
This is repeated for all choices one made till they get a school or the choices are exhausted
Other parameters like private/public school, quota system etc. can be programmed in.
A first year or second year student can write such code for you and all this nonsense will be in the past!!! as I mentioned to you before, the problem is the pool of national schools that are selected is kidogo and the competition for the same is high, if it was a random placement to national schools then that would work, but the moment you introduce a subset in that algorithim then the output becomes constrained and the chances of a hit lowers, meaning the logic has posibilities of failing to place a kid in a national school despite meeting the passmark. And that is what happens, just that with social networks it's being highlighted more, lakini that always happens because of that algorithim and the parameters used. With the algorithm I have just explained above no one would miss out on a school that they chose and someome in the same category with lower marks is admitted. This is an extremely simple algorithim to implement even factoring in affirmative action, private/public schools etc. This can even be an assignment for second year Computer Science or IT students at UON or JKUAT. Of course ukipatia wa Inoorero, wewe Kwisha!!! He he he. On a lighter note. Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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MaichBlack wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Looking at the sampled children in today's newspaper, I think the problem is that candidates and their guardians are not properly advised on how to make effective choices. How does one choose Alliance, Maranda, Lenana and Maseno? All these are highly competitive schools.
If you miss Alliance with your 407marks, you will find that by the time they try to place you in Maranda, it is already filled by those who chose it as first choice. Same for Lenana, Maseno and ALL other national schools and competitive county ones.
So, you'll be left out! The only thing the ministry can do is place you anywhere else there is a space.
People must learn that CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES!
This a very stone age approach. If I chose a school as my second or third choice and I scored more marks than you, I should get a higher priority than you even if you chose it as your first choice if I miss my first choice. It's doable only the people involved are lazy, corrupt and clueless!!! If you chose a school as your first choice and I chose it as my third and one of us is supposed to be admitted there and I scored higher marks than you, it is common sense that I should get the slot before you, other things (affirmative action bla bla bla) being constant). The only difference should be that there are other two schools I'd rather have gone to but didn't meet the criteria. Common sense is surely not common - as far as this so called selection process is concerned. You do have a point and I hope MoE is scanning Wazua to get some ideas.... The net effect of your proposal is that all the choices are given equal priority and then placement is based on popularity of a school. That is, suppose Adam has 410 marks and Bob 400 Adam chooses Alliance as second choice while Bob chooses it as first choice. What you are saying is that we ignore the fact that Bob had a greater desire to go to Alliance that Adam and only look at their marks. So we give the slot to Adam even though he didn't want to go to Alliance as much as Bob. My opinion is that this is not fair to Bob. And secondly, we are giving too much focus on marks and ignoring the rest of the human being - his likes and dislikes etc!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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MaichBlack wrote:And why are we rewarding mediocrity???
Is the government telling us that individuals running private schools are doing a much better job than the government and the government is resigned to that fact?
I will tell you something free of charge. Teachers in MOST private schools are less qualified, less experienced, more overworked and earn less than their counter parts in public schools. The main reason private schools perform better is because the teachers are held accountable for the performance of their students and there is a proper follow up and audit all the way from lower classes. If you don't believe me, dare any teacher in a public school to join a private school. The can't even dare. In most public schools all you have to do is show up. Go to class, talk to yourself if you feel like and wait for end month.
The government should run public schools like private schools in terms of managing staff and setting targets!
I understand affirmative action in the case of students from Mandera and other disadvantaged areas but students in the same estate in the same county??? Seriously??? We are neighbours, we go to neighbouring school only that one is private and the other one is public and you are admitted to the school of my choice with 380 marks and I am left out with my 420 marks??? I think we are missing the point, in the current setup affirmative action is a must, and its easy to yell that its unfair to private schools - but at the end of the day the schools are different, in private schools they have a limit to the number of kids they admit, actually they are discriminative in that they only admit kids who can afford the fees, that's not the case for public schools. if you want the government to run public schools like private ones, then we will end up discriminating against a section of the population, and the quotas are fair to try and bring in a balance.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,838
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@poundfoolish - There is no system. Just pure madness. Two years or so ago, the BEST student in Mombasa missed out on his National School of choice and was admitted to a newly upgraded National School I think somewhere in Taveta I think that he didn't even know existed. The so called quota system should have guaranteed him a place in his first choice National school. His marks should also have guaranteed him a place. How do you get upwards of 420 marks, you are the best in your county and still don't make it to the National School of choice? Kwani quota system ni nini? Ama ni kuota system??? Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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It has never been proven that national schools offer better education than county ones. That is, do they improve the academic prowess of their pupils? Nobody has ever attempted to measure it. However, there is some indication that pupils who get admitted to national schools do not make as much improvement in performance as those who go to county ones.
In other words, the preference for national schools is based to a large extent on belief, not scientific evidence. Education researchers must wake up and guide the nation!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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chiaroscuro wrote:MaichBlack wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Looking at the sampled children in today's newspaper, I think the problem is that candidates and their guardians are not properly advised on how to make effective choices. How does one choose Alliance, Maranda, Lenana and Maseno? All these are highly competitive schools.
If you miss Alliance with your 407marks, you will find that by the time they try to place you in Maranda, it is already filled by those who chose it as first choice. Same for Lenana, Maseno and ALL other national schools and competitive county ones.
So, you'll be left out! The only thing the ministry can do is place you anywhere else there is a space.
People must learn that CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES!
This a very stone age approach. If I chose a school as my second or third choice and I scored more marks than you, I should get a higher priority than you even if you chose it as your first choice if I miss my first choice. It's doable only the people involved are lazy, corrupt and clueless!!! If you chose a school as your first choice and I chose it as my third and one of us is supposed to be admitted there and I scored higher marks than you, it is common sense that I should get the slot before you, other things (affirmative action bla bla bla) being constant). The only difference should be that there are other two schools I'd rather have gone to but didn't meet the criteria. Common sense is surely not common - as far as this so called selection process is concerned. You do have a point and I hope MoE is scanning Wazua to get some ideas.... The net effect of your proposal is that all the choices are given equal priority and then placement is based on popularity of a school. That is, suppose Adam has 410 marks and Bob 400 Adam chooses Alliance as second choice while Bob chooses it as first choice. algorithim What you are saying is that we ignore the fact that Bob had a greater desire to go to Alliance that Adam and only look at their marks. So we give the slot to Adam even though he didn't want to go to Alliance as much as Bob. My opinion is that this is not fair to Bob. And secondly, we are giving too much focus on marks and ignoring the rest of the human being - his likes and dislikes etc! you have put it very well, the parameters that go into the algorithm are limiting the places, to have the scenario that @MaichBlack is advocating for, then we would need to change the parameters, but as you put it the current ranking of the choices is a parameter that has to be considered when doing the placement otherwise it would be a case of defining a variable and then not using it. The kids selection lists as used currently has led to the current scenario where some think that its unfair, but if we were to start guessing where a kid might prefer to go outside their selection then the algorithm becomes very complex especially given the current input.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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chiaroscuro wrote:It has never been proven that national schools offer better education than county ones. That is, do they improve the academic prowess of their pupils? Nobody has ever attempted to measure it. However, there is some indication that pupils who get admitted to national schools do not make as much improvement in performance as those who go to county ones.
In other words, the preference for national schools is based to a large extent on belief, not scientific evidence. Education researchers must wake up and guide the nation! national schools, especially the ones causing all the havoc have a sentimental, more of an emotional angle to them - for instance a school like precious blood riruta (not a national school) which in the past has always outperformed the national schools lacks that brand (for lack of a better word) associated with the others. Serious thought has to go into the secondary school education system in kenya, its worrying that we are making kids compete for secondary education, which I feel should be universal in this day and age. The reason some schools (national) get more funding and resources from the government is outrageous, we should make the secondary schools to be like primary schools, where its the parent who tafuta the schools for the kid not the government placements.
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