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tycho		#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:55:29 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True.
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Muriel		#22 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 12:18:01 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		masukuma wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? It all boils down to this image again Magic and Magical thinking tends to explain the KNOWN UNKNOWNs part of our world. Any self respecting belief system has to explain the KNOWN UNKNOWNs to it's audience. my theory is the KNOWN KNOWNs infects assumptions we hold about what makes thing happen in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNs. you can only assume based on the depth of the 'KNOWNs' you know. That is why some people remove Magic and sorcery from the list of things that makes KNOWN UNKNOWNs behave the way they do. Those people who have small amounts of KNOWN KNOWNs will accept things that have not been proven wrong in their 'KNOWN KNOWNs' circle. A few minutes ago, you just affirmed that 'magical thinking is an integral part of humanity'. I have taken note of and observed the qualifying, mitigating levels you are attempting to now introduce. However, you cannot now 'remove' magic from being an 'integral part of humanity' without: 1. being self contradictory and inconsistent or 2. implying that some humans are not partakers of this essential constituent of humanity - perhaps even implying that there were in effect two parallel lines of evolution. 3. giving another meaning to the word 'magic'. 4. giving another meaning to the word 'integral'. As you can see, brother agrees its true.
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Muriel		#23 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 12:45:28 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why?
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masukuma		#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:01:02 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi		Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? It all boils down to this image again Magic and Magical thinking tends to explain the KNOWN UNKNOWNs part of our world. Any self respecting belief system has to explain the KNOWN UNKNOWNs to it's audience. my theory is the KNOWN KNOWNs infects assumptions we hold about what makes thing happen in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNs. you can only assume based on the depth of the 'KNOWNs' you know. That is why some people remove Magic and sorcery from the list of things that makes KNOWN UNKNOWNs behave the way they do. Those people who have small amounts of KNOWN KNOWNs will accept things that have not been proven wrong in their 'KNOWN KNOWNs' circle. A few minutes ago, you just affirmed that 'magical thinking is an integral part of humanity'. I have taken note of and observed the qualifying, mitigating levels you are attempting to now introduce. However, you cannot now 'remove' magic from being an 'integral part of humanity' without: 1. being self contradictory and inconsistent or 2. implying that some humans are not partakers of this essential constituent of humanity - perhaps even implying that there were in effect two parallel lines of evolution. 3. giving another meaning to the word 'magic'. 4. giving another meaning to the word 'integral'. As you can see, brother agrees its true. don't nit pick and read my stuff again - I am very coherent in my explanations and it's none of the above. I think my explanations/theory boil down to this properties of the mind 1) all minds are capable of magical thinking in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNS; 2) all minds are capable of consistently acquiring knowledge the process of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs 1) when the mind gets information that moves some KNOWN UNKNOWN into the realm of KNOWN KNOWNs and is accepted. The minds will look at explaining the then KNOWN UNKNOWNs with this new lens projecting the knowledge of the now KNOWN KNOWNs to explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs. 2) when further information is availed, understood and accepted - it will feedback into 1 for the hitherto KNOWN UNKNOWNs which are now accepted as KNOWN KNOWNs. during this feedback loop - some things are generally cancelled out as valid lenses of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs one such thing is Magic another is 'Because my Mum/Dad said so' e.t.c. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Muriel		#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:19:45 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		masukuma wrote: don't nit pick and read my stuff again - I am very coherent in my explanations and it's none of the above. I think my explanations/theory boil down to this properties of the mind 1) all minds are capable of magical thinking in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNS; 2) all minds are capable of consistently acquiring knowledge the process of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs 1) when the mind gets information that moves some KNOWN UNKNOWN into the realm of KNOWN KNOWNs and is accepted. The minds will look at explaining the then KNOWN UNKNOWNs with this new lens projecting the knowledge of the now KNOWN KNOWNs to explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs. 2) when further information is availed, understood and accepted - it will feedback into 1 for the hitherto KNOWN UNKNOWNs which are now accepted as KNOWN KNOWNs. during this feedback loop - some things are generally cancelled out as valid lenses of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs one such thing is Magic another is 'Because my Mum/Dad said so' e.t.c. Masukuma, I am not cherry picking what to read and yes you are coherent. Though not necessarily in harmony. Nevertheless I see a disconnect between your affirmation to the assertion that 'magical thinking is an integral part of humanity' and your explanations. 'Magic' implies some supernatural circumstance. Your step by step explanation gives no room for such supernatural circumstances or occurences. If magic can be cancelled out then it is not an integral part of humanity for integral means an essential constituent. And essential means absolutely necessary. In paraphrase 'Magical thinking is an absolutely necessary constitution of humanity.' Hence my original question, is it true? Why would evolution give us magic, supernatural things?
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Muriel		#26 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:21:47 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why? I think I have answered myself the how and why but I still feel its not true.
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Impunity		#27 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:44:10 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada		Wainadi wrote: Laugh, laugh, laugh. Why would a person seek divination by a magicians. Some time ago I knew a kiuk guy and a mchagaa guy Who had partnered to fleece the gullible public, one hid under the bed in a kibanda and became the spirit. They would regale how they landed on private airports that were seeking to lock landing gears of the pilots exclusively to their airports.The medicine for that required application of some ointment on their landing gear and applied to the clients airport via landing. Ogopa mkeo akienda kwa mganga. Hii huitwago kuweka kishwa pekee yake! Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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tycho		#28 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:51:46 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		Muriel wrote: Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why? I think I have answered myself the how and why but I still feel its not true. That's acceptable, and expected in many.
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Muriel		#29 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:57:08 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why? I think I have answered myself the how and why but I still feel its not true. That's not just acceptable, but expected in many. Silly me what was I thinking? Now I think its true! The supernatural and its associated thinking are indeed true!
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Muriel		#30 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:59:00 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why? I think I have answered myself the how and why but I still feel its not true. That's acceptable, and expected in many. Which is which? Acceptable or just not acceptable? Are we all discombobulated?
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tycho		#31 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:03:54 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why? I think I have answered myself the how and why but I still feel its not true. That's acceptable, and expected in many. Which is which? Acceptable or just not acceptable? Are we all discombobulated? 'Acceptable'. The earlier statement sounded 'clumsy'. Sorry.
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Impunity		#32 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:09:09 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada		THREAD ATTACKED!!!!! Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Muriel		#33 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:16:00 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? True. How and why? I think I have answered myself the how and why but I still feel its not true. That's acceptable, and expected in many. Which is which? Acceptable or just not acceptable? Are we all discombobulated? 'Acceptable'. The earlier statement sounded 'clumsy'. Sorry. Then we are in harmony.
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Muriel		#34 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:21:37 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		Impunity wrote: THREAD ATTACKED!!!!! Impunity, this is a thread for black magic, you know, voodoo stuff and such things. Scream all you want. No one will hear you here.
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tycho		#35 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:26:25 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		What's 'black magic'?
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Muriel		#36 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:31:46 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		I think magic is magic. Black and white are ruses.
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masukuma		#37 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:44:13 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi		Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: don't nit pick and read my stuff again - I am very coherent in my explanations and it's none of the above. I think my explanations/theory boil down to this properties of the mind 1) all minds are capable of magical thinking in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNS; 2) all minds are capable of consistently acquiring knowledge the process of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs 1) when the mind gets information that moves some KNOWN UNKNOWN into the realm of KNOWN KNOWNs and is accepted. The minds will look at explaining the then KNOWN UNKNOWNs with this new lens projecting the knowledge of the now KNOWN KNOWNs to explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs. 2) when further information is availed, understood and accepted - it will feedback into 1 for the hitherto KNOWN UNKNOWNs which are now accepted as KNOWN KNOWNs. during this feedback loop - some things are generally cancelled out as valid lenses of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs one such thing is Magic another is 'Because my Mum/Dad said so' e.t.c. Masukuma, I am not cherry picking what to read and yes you are coherent. Though not necessarily in harmony. Nevertheless I see a disconnect between your affirmation to the assertion that 'magical thinking is an integral part of humanity' and your explanations. 'Magic' implies some supernatural circumstance. Your step by step explanation gives no room for such supernatural circumstances or occurences. If magic can be cancelled out then it is not an integral part of humanity for integral means an essential constituent. And essential means absolutely necessary. In paraphrase 'Magical thinking is an absolutely necessary constitution of humanity.' Hence my original question, is it true? Why would evolution give us magic, supernatural things? not cherry picking but rather nit picking All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Muriel		#38 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:48:31 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		masukuma wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: don't nit pick and read my stuff again - I am very coherent in my explanations and it's none of the above. I think my explanations/theory boil down to this properties of the mind 1) all minds are capable of magical thinking in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNS; 2) all minds are capable of consistently acquiring knowledge the process of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs 1) when the mind gets information that moves some KNOWN UNKNOWN into the realm of KNOWN KNOWNs and is accepted. The minds will look at explaining the then KNOWN UNKNOWNs with this new lens projecting the knowledge of the now KNOWN KNOWNs to explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs. 2) when further information is availed, understood and accepted - it will feedback into 1 for the hitherto KNOWN UNKNOWNs which are now accepted as KNOWN KNOWNs. during this feedback loop - some things are generally cancelled out as valid lenses of explaining KNOWN UNKNOWNs one such thing is Magic another is 'Because my Mum/Dad said so' e.t.c. Masukuma, I am not cherry picking what to read and yes you are coherent. Though not necessarily in harmony. Nevertheless I see a disconnect between your affirmation to the assertion that 'magical thinking is an integral part of humanity' and your explanations. 'Magic' implies some supernatural circumstance. Your step by step explanation gives no room for such supernatural circumstances or occurences. If magic can be cancelled out then it is not an integral part of humanity for integral means an essential constituent. And essential means absolutely necessary. In paraphrase 'Magical thinking is an absolutely necessary constitution of humanity.' Hence my original question, is it true? Why would evolution give us magic, supernatural things? not cherry picking but rather nit picking Discernment.
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tycho		#39 Posted : Friday, January 30, 2015 12:13:41 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		masukuma wrote: Muriel wrote: masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: Magical thinking is an integral part of humanity. As such black magic exists and is effective to the limits of scientific knowledge. tycho is right! the human mind seeks to understand everything and in understanding and transmission of this understanding an explanation must come forth - magic happens to be the best way to explain the unexplainable/unfathomable e.t.c. 'Integral part of humanity' implies a constant. If it is an integral part of humanity then it cannot be missing in some while present in others. It cannot be dismissed or accepted at will. Is it true? It all boils down to this image again Magic and Magical thinking tends to explain the KNOWN UNKNOWNs part of our world. Any self respecting belief system has to explain the KNOWN UNKNOWNs to it's audience. my theory is the KNOWN KNOWNs infects assumptions we hold about what makes thing happen in the realm of the KNOWN UNKNOWNs. you can only assume based on the depth of the 'KNOWNs' you know. That is why some people remove Magic and sorcery from the list of things that makes KNOWN UNKNOWNs behave the way they do. Those people who have small amounts of KNOWN KNOWNs will accept things that have not been proven wrong in their 'KNOWN KNOWNs' circle. I saw the 'Unknown known' and I wondered where to place it on this diagram.
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Othelo		#40 Posted : Friday, January 30, 2015 12:18:50 PM
Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528		Hallo, just passing by Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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