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the black african. the black african. someone, anyone please save the black african.
Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:some southern african bantus do but majority dont. that's why i posted the two maps. southern african countries (zambia, zimbabwe, mozambique, botswana, swaziland, lesotho, south africa etc) are mostly 90%+ bantu and majority of their populations are uncircumcised. So who introduced it to the Southern Africa Bantus? Jan Van Rieebeck's people? more than one school of thought on that but my original point was circumcision is not of bantu origin but adopted. i sometimes think that maybe bantus in kenya may have adopted circumcision after encountering communities that were more warlike than them like the nilotic maasai and kalenjin or the cushitic somali. probably aspired to the fierceness. All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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innairobi wrote:Lolest! wrote:innairobi wrote:Ngong wrote:Ah! are you suggesting circumcision was introduced to the mugikuyu by the arab? my God! isnt it striking that bantus who migrated further south predominantly dont circumcise but bantus who remained in east africa like the gikuyu do? therein lies the hint. Which non-circumcising Bantu people are these? The Coastals chop, The Western Bantu chop, The Bongo people chop, the South Africa Bantus chop too While it is likely that the long held historian thought that Cushites introduced the cut, it is very likely that it was not introduced in current ethnic homeland but from the Congo area as the Cushites were also known to move West PS. The Batusti of Rwanda/Burundi/DRC are believed to have come from Ethiopia! Read Mohammed Mamdani's works. Yet we believe they're Bantu! You will see some resemblance between some Rwandese and Ethiopians... some southern african bantus do but majority dont. that's why i posted the two maps. southern african countries (zambia, zimbabwe, mozambique, botswana, swaziland, lesotho, south africa etc) are mostly 90%+ bantu and majority of their populations are uncircumcised. very true.
60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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innairobi wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:innairobi wrote:the black african. the black african. someone, anyone please save the black african. always more extreme than the inventor of whatever he does  more zealous on 'decent' clothes than the people who introduced him to clothes in the first place citizens of niger more offended than the arab world by french cartoons of mohammed boko haram more extreme than isis and al qaeda a dogmatic adherence to the bible than the people who introduced him to the bible black african males more zealous on circumcision than the people who introduced him to circumcision will the black african ever evolve? It's amazing that @innairobi can't see the fallacy in the above argument/ observation. I can only pray that he/she 'evolves' first, if at all the matter is 'evolution'. Yes. Indeed. evolution, change etc. semantics Not all change is evolution. 'Semantics' is a good cover. A group can spontaneously 'discover' circumcision.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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innairobi wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:some southern african bantus do but majority dont. that's why i posted the two maps. southern african countries (zambia, zimbabwe, mozambique, botswana, swaziland, lesotho, south africa etc) are mostly 90%+ bantu and majority of their populations are uncircumcised. So who introduced it to the Southern Africa Bantus? Jan Van Rieebeck's people? more than one school of thought on that but my original point was circumcision is not of bantu origin but adopted. i sometimes think that bantus in kenya may have adopted circumcision after encountering communities that were more warlike than them like the nilotic maasai and kalenjin or the cushitic somali. probably aspired to the fierceness. Historians tell us it's from Cushites. Most likely the Galla as Bantus moved from Shungwaya to current homelands Some Ameru versions claim they were once held as slaves at a place called Mbwa . This is thought to be at the coast If you say the Maasai introduced it, from where did the Maasai get it from? The Cushitic origin is most plausible(Abrahamic covenant and Abrahamic faiths) though it leaves you wondering where the Xhosas et al of southern Africa got it from. Hence the possibility it was introduced to them at their 'shagz' huko Kongo, or somewhere not so far away from that ocha before splintering further. Or it could be that the cut is like religion...Everybody figured out that there was God somewhere, or gods. Which is why Nilotics are split too Who knows?
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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tycho wrote:innairobi wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:innairobi wrote:the black african. the black african. someone, anyone please save the black african. always more extreme than the inventor of whatever he does more zealous on 'decent' clothes than the people who introduced him to clothes in the first place citizens of niger more offended than the arab world by french cartoons of mohammed boko haram more extreme than isis and al qaeda a dogmatic adherence to the bible than the people who introduced him to the bible black african males more zealous on circumcision than the people who introduced him to circumcision will the black african ever evolve? It's amazing that @innairobi can't see the fallacy in the above argument/ observation. I can only pray that he/she 'evolves' first, if at all the matter is 'evolution'. Yes. Indeed. evolution, change etc. semantics Not all change is evolution. 'Semantics' is a good cover. A group can spontaneously 'discover' circumcision. come on tycho. you know what i mean. and yes there are rare instances where people in different places discover something independently. All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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Lolest! wrote:innairobi wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:some southern african bantus do but majority dont. that's why i posted the two maps. southern african countries (zambia, zimbabwe, mozambique, botswana, swaziland, lesotho, south africa etc) are mostly 90%+ bantu and majority of their populations are uncircumcised. So who introduced it to the Southern Africa Bantus? Jan Van Rieebeck's people? more than one school of thought on that but my original point was circumcision is not of bantu origin but adopted. i sometimes think that bantus in kenya may have adopted circumcision after encountering communities that were more warlike than them like the nilotic maasai and kalenjin or the cushitic somali. probably aspired to the fierceness. Historians tell us it's from Cushites. Most likely the Galla as Bantus moved from Shungwaya to current homelands Some Ameru versions claim they were once held as slaves at a place called Mbwa . This is thought to be at the coast If you say the Maasai introduced it, from where did the Maasai get it from? The Cushitic origin is most plausible(Abrahamic covenant and Abrahamic faiths) though it leaves you wondering where the Xhosas et al of southern Africa got it from. Hence the possibility it was introduced to them at their 'shagz' huko Kongo, or somewhere not so far away from that ocha before splintering further. Or it could be that the cut is like religion...Everybody figured out that there was God somewhere, or gods. Which is why Nilotics are split too Who knows? it came from either the cushites, arabs/islam or nilotes. and it could have been adapted by different bantu groups from different sources at different times but must have spread easier from bantus to bantus once word got in. All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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innairobi wrote:tycho wrote:innairobi wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:innairobi wrote:the black african. the black african. someone, anyone please save the black african. always more extreme than the inventor of whatever he does more zealous on 'decent' clothes than the people who introduced him to clothes in the first place citizens of niger more offended than the arab world by french cartoons of mohammed boko haram more extreme than isis and al qaeda a dogmatic adherence to the bible than the people who introduced him to the bible black african males more zealous on circumcision than the people who introduced him to circumcision will the black african ever evolve? It's amazing that @innairobi can't see the fallacy in the above argument/ observation. I can only pray that he/she 'evolves' first, if at all the matter is 'evolution'. Yes. Indeed. evolution, change etc. semantics Not all change is evolution. 'Semantics' is a good cover. A group can spontaneously 'discover' circumcision. come on tycho. you know what i mean. and yes there are rare instances where people in different places discover something independently. I wouldn't have objected if I knew what you meant. Cases of spontaneous discovery aren't necessarily rare. For example, I'd expect them to be more frequent when intercommunication and cultural contact are less frequent.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:innairobi wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:some southern african bantus do but majority dont. that's why i posted the two maps. southern african countries (zambia, zimbabwe, mozambique, botswana, swaziland, lesotho, south africa etc) are mostly 90%+ bantu and majority of their populations are uncircumcised. So who introduced it to the Southern Africa Bantus? Jan Van Rieebeck's people? more than one school of thought on that but my original point was circumcision is not of bantu origin but adopted. i sometimes think that bantus in kenya may have adopted circumcision after encountering communities that were more warlike than them like the nilotic maasai and kalenjin or the cushitic somali. probably aspired to the fierceness. Historians tell us it's from Cushites. Most likely the Galla as Bantus moved from Shungwaya to current homelands Some Ameru versions claim they were once held as slaves at a place called Mbwa . This is thought to be at the coast If you say the Maasai introduced it, from where did the Maasai get it from? The Cushitic origin is most plausible(Abrahamic covenant and Abrahamic faiths) though it leaves you wondering where the Xhosas et al of southern Africa got it from. Hence the possibility it was introduced to them at their 'shagz' huko Kongo, or somewhere not so far away from that ocha before splintering further. Or it could be that the cut is like religion...Everybody figured out that there was God somewhere, or gods. Which is why Nilotics are split too Who knows? check out the genetic mapping of Maasais. they are from all over the place as far north as ethiopia and there lies the nexus you are looking for. on the flipside perhaps something else that may give the hint is prevalence of female circumcision. it's as far west as in the kisiis (I reckon influences with maasai) All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Thitifini wrote:innairobi wrote:Lolest! wrote:innairobi wrote:Ngong wrote:Ah! are you suggesting circumcision was introduced to the mugikuyu by the arab? my God! isnt it striking that bantus who migrated further south predominantly dont circumcise but bantus who remained in east africa like the gikuyu do? therein lies the hint. Which non-circumcising Bantu people are these? The Coastals chop, The Western Bantu chop, The Bongo people chop, the South Africa Bantus chop too While it is likely that the long held historian thought that Cushites introduced the cut, it is very likely that it was not introduced in current ethnic homeland but from the Congo area as the Cushites were also known to move West PS. The Batusti of Rwanda/Burundi/DRC are believed to have come from Ethiopia! Read Mohammed Mamdani's works. Yet we believe they're Bantu! You will see some resemblance between some Rwandese and Ethiopians.. some southern african bantus do but majority dont. that's why i posted the two maps. southern african countries (zambia, zimbabwe, mozambique, botswana, swaziland, lesotho, south africa etc) are mostly 90%+ bantu and majority of their populations are uncircumcised. very true. It is an Islamic viewpoint that every nation was sent a messenger for their guidance. The Messengers, all confirmed what was before him. Some taught new things. God revealed to the Messengers the Scripture with truth, even He revealed the covenant of circumcision in Torah and confirmed in the Gospel and later in the Quran. We know Abraham walked on this earth, he passed down the ritual. But this kept changing from tribe to tribe and nation to nation. God only knows what is good for His creation.
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