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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, Allah says in Quran 2:146 "those to whom WE gave the Scriptures - the Jews n the Christians - recognize Muhammad as they recognize their own sons. But some of them conceal the truth while they know it."
How True! Both Christian Scholars recognized the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instantly at their first meeting with him as if they had known him for years and both predicted events in his life which would take place in the future.
This means that they were basing their predictions on prophecies in their books. What were these prophecies? Yes, stick to the Qur'an, you might fare better. Humour me. When Islam was spreading in the initial centuries, some environmentist muslim told his fighters to hurt not the trees or cattle (I forget the exact words) and to kill only what was to be eaten. Do you remember? Stop being "jumpy as a fart in a skillet!". One things at a time, we are now talking about his authenticity first, we will go to what he did next if you want.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, Allah says in Quran 2:146 "those to whom WE gave the Scriptures - the Jews n the Christians - recognize Muhammad as they recognize their own sons. But some of them conceal the truth while they know it."
How True! Both Christian Scholars recognized the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instantly at their first meeting with him as if they had known him for years and both predicted events in his life which would take place in the future.
This means that they were basing their predictions on prophecies in their books. What were these prophecies? Yes, stick to the Qur'an, you might fare better. Humour me. When Islam was spreading in the initial centuries, some environmentist muslim told his fighters to hurt not the trees or cattle (I forget the exact words) and to kill only what was to be eaten. Do you remember? Stop being "jumpy as a fart in a skillet!". One things at a time, we are now talking about his authenticity first, we will go to what he did next if you want. What!!!!! You called me what??!!! Laugh Laugh Laugh You mean fat in a skillet? I'm that jumpy? I can chew gum and walk at the same time. Can you? Did I start my story waaaaaay back for you? I see nothing more to discuss about the phantom having dismissed him earlier. Judas is more credible than him.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above Oh man! I cannot plumb the depths of this logic. It's too deep for me. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, Allah says in Quran 2:146 "those to whom WE gave the Scriptures - the Jews n the Christians - recognize Muhammad as they recognize their own sons. But some of them conceal the truth while they know it."
How True! Both Christian Scholars recognized the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instantly at their first meeting with him as if they had known him for years and both predicted events in his life which would take place in the future.
This means that they were basing their predictions on prophecies in their books. What were these prophecies? Yes, stick to the Qur'an, you might fare better. Humour me. When Islam was spreading in the initial centuries, some environmentist muslim told his fighters to hurt not the trees or cattle (I forget the exact words) and to kill only what was to be eaten. Do you remember? Stop being "jumpy as a fart in a skillet!". One things at a time, we are now talking about his authenticity first, we will go to what he did next if you want. What!!!!! You called me what??!!! Laugh Laugh Laugh You mean fat in a skillet? I'm that jumpy? I can chew gum and walk at the same time. Can you? Did I start my story waaaaaay back for you? I see nothing more to discuss about the phantom having dismissed him earlier. Judas is more credible than him. @muriel, I'm sorry about using that "saying". It was meant for humour only. I guess my sense of humour was so down. I'm sorry, I didn't call you that!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above Oh man! I cannot plumb the depths of this logic. It's too deep for me. @muriel, allow me to show you further. So that you know we believe in the earlier scriptures too! The Prophet who could not read or write is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). as indicated in the story. SO Isaiah 29:12 above is completely fulfilled in the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). 2. Isaiah 28:11 says " ..with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." As you can see from the story the prophet was trembling after the encounter so obviously he would be stammering too until he calmed down. And " in another tongue" means Arabic.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above Oh man! I cannot plumb the depths of this logic. It's too deep for me. @muriel, allow me to show you further. So that you know we believe in the earlier scriptures too! The Prophet who could not read or write is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). as indicated in the story. SO Isaiah 29:12 above is completely fulfilled in the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). 2. Isaiah 28:11 says " ..with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." As you can see from the story the prophet was trembling after the encounter so obviously he would be stammering too until he calmed down. And " in another tongue" means Arabic. Woe! Woe is me! There were yet deeper depths? Further disconnect from reason and logic? Because if Isaiah is correct, and was spot-on, and you have quoted him twice showing great confidence in what he says, then it means also that Isaiah 53 is correct. All of it. Someone did indeed bear someone's else griefs, sorrows and transgressions and iniquities. God put the iniquity of people on someone who was oppressed and killed like a lamb. So please tell me Isaiah was wrong. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above Oh man! I cannot plumb the depths of this logic. It's too deep for me. @muriel, allow me to show you further. So that you know we believe in the earlier scriptures too! The Prophet who could not read or write is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). as indicated in the story. SO Isaiah 29:12 above is completely fulfilled in the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). 2. Isaiah 28:11 says " ..with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." As you can see from the story the prophet was trembling after the encounter so obviously he would be stammering too until he calmed down. And " in another tongue" means Arabic. Woe! Woe is me! There were yet deeper depths? Further disconnect from reason and logic? Because if Isaiah is correct, and was spot-on, and you have quoted him twice showing great confidence in what he says, then it means also that Isaiah 53 is correct. All of it. Someone did indeed bear someone's else griefs, sorrows and transgressions and iniquities. God put the iniquity of people on someone who was oppressed and killed like a lamb. So please tell me Isaiah was wrong. Again, you're jumpy! Can't you stick here for a while, until we conclude the prophecy of THE PROPHET?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above Oh man! I cannot plumb the depths of this logic. It's too deep for me. @muriel, allow me to show you further. So that you know we believe in the earlier scriptures too! The Prophet who could not read or write is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). as indicated in the story. SO Isaiah 29:12 above is completely fulfilled in the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). 2. Isaiah 28:11 says " ..with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." As you can see from the story the prophet was trembling after the encounter so obviously he would be stammering too until he calmed down. And " in another tongue" means Arabic. Woe! Woe is me! There were yet deeper depths? Further disconnect from reason and logic? Because if Isaiah is correct, and was spot-on, and you have quoted him twice showing great confidence in what he says, then it means also that Isaiah 53 is correct. All of it. Someone did indeed bear someone's else griefs, sorrows and transgressions and iniquities. God put the iniquity of people on someone who was oppressed and killed like a lamb. So please tell me Isaiah was wrong. Again, you're jumpy! Can't you stick here for a while, until we conclude the prophecy of THE PROPHET? Either Isaiah is a credible prophet or he is not. Either he is saying the truth or he is lying. What will it be?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, let me show you the prophecies.
1. Isaiah 29:11 says: "read this I pray you. And he says: I cannot, for it is SEALED."
Quran is a book that is sealed. The first verses to be revealed are part of ch 96 verses 1-5. And the last verses to be revealed are part of ch 5 verse 3 "This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
Had the Quran not been a SEALED BOOK, then the first verse would have been chap 1 v 1-5, and the last
Verse would have been ch 114.
Conclusion: QURAN is the book talked about in Isaiah 29.11 of the bible.
Isaiah 29.12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: "read this, I pray you. And he says: I am not learned (I cannot read)"
2. Coming... after you are satisfied with no.1 above Oh man! I cannot plumb the depths of this logic. It's too deep for me. @muriel, allow me to show you further. So that you know we believe in the earlier scriptures too! The Prophet who could not read or write is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). as indicated in the story. SO Isaiah 29:12 above is completely fulfilled in the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). 2. Isaiah 28:11 says " ..with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." As you can see from the story the prophet was trembling after the encounter so obviously he would be stammering too until he calmed down. And " in another tongue" means Arabic. Woe! Woe is me! There were yet deeper depths? Further disconnect from reason and logic? Because if Isaiah is correct, and was spot-on, and you have quoted him twice showing great confidence in what he says, then it means also that Isaiah 53 is correct. All of it. Someone did indeed bear someone's else griefs, sorrows and transgressions and iniquities. God put the iniquity of people on someone who was oppressed and killed like a lamb. So please tell me Isaiah was wrong. Again, you're jumpy! Can't you stick here for a while, until we conclude the prophecy of THE PROPHET? Either Isaiah is a credible prophet or he is not. Either he is saying the truth or he is lying. What will it be? Now you're digressing. That's not a contention now. You can keep that as issue to be handled after the one above. Right now, let us finish "whether Prophet Muhammad pbuh is credible or not". Then we come to others. There are so many prophets my friend.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:
Now you're digressing. That's not a contention now. You can keep that as issue to be handled after the one above. Right now, let us finish "whether Prophet Muhammad pbuh is credible or not". Then we come to others. There are so many prophets my friend.
I think I am well within the issue, Alphdoti. You opine that Isaiah prophesied the coming of Mohammed and his Qur'an. You have cited 2 instances where you allege Isaiah prophesied so. All I am asking is whether you think I should take what Isaiah says as the truth. Should I believe Isaiah's prophecies? Then you and your pals conjure up a phantom Bahira to buttress Isaiah's 'prophecies'. As to whether Mohammed is credible or not, I already told you what I think of him - a street preacher, a charlatan and a nag. Just like Owuor.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Now you're digressing. That's not a contention now. You can keep that as issue to be handled after the one above. Right now, let us finish "whether Prophet Muhammad pbuh is credible or not". Then we come to others. There are so many prophets my friend.
I think I am well within the issue, Alphdoti. You opine that Isaiah prophesied the coming of Mohammed and his Qur'an. You have cited 2 instances where you allege Isaiah prophesied so. All I am asking is whether you think I should take what Isaiah says as the truth. Should I believe Isaiah's prophecies? Then you and your pals conjure up a phantom Bahira to buttress Isaiah's 'prophecies'. As to whether Mohammed is credible or not, I already told you what I think of him - a street preacher, a charlatan and a nag. Just like Owuor. @muriel 1. My opinion about Isaiah is not the issue now. We are now talking about credibility of prophet prophecised by Isaiah. 2. Your asking whether you should take Isaiah as truth is up to you to decide. We can discuss that later if you want 3. I'm saying you are jumping here and there and not focusing. First, you said Muhammad (pbuh) is not credible because he was just a street preacher. I told you that is not criteria. Secondly, you said he is not credible because he was stoned and exiled by his people. I told you many of the credible prophets and messengers, which Muslims and Christians believe went through the same. Thirdly, I gave you evidence of his prophecy. That's where we were before you started trying to digress and asking me about credibility of the book of Isaiah.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, when you claim to know whom you are talking about, then you should argue based on his principles. Oh! Alright. You mean to say he was not mistreated in the streets of Mecca that he fled to Medina? There is a hadithi that following his mistreatments in the streets, he took shelter under a tree in Taif and complained to Allah "O Allah, I complain to you for my inability. I pray to you to lead these people to the right path." Hence not only was he a street preacher, but a nag as well. @muriel, so Jesus was not a prophet because he was arrested beaten and crucified was he fake? Was John the baptist fake because they chopped off his head? Was Zachariya (Zachariah) fake because they chopped him in half? Was Musa (Moses) fake because his people refused to follow him into the promised land? Was Ibrahim (Abraham) fake because his people banished (exiled) him from their country? Was Yusuf (Joseph) fake because his brothers plotted against him?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel
1. My opinion about Isaiah is not the issue now. We are now talking about credibility of prophet prophecised by Isaiah.
2. Your asking whether you should take Isaiah as truth is up to you to decide. We can discuss that later if you want
3. I'm saying you are jumping here and there and not focusing. First, you said Muhammad (pbuh) is not credible because he was just a street preacher.
I told you that is not criteria. Secondly, you said he is not credible because he was stoned and exiled by his people. I told you many of the credible prophets and messengers, which Muslims and Christians believe went through the same. Thirdly, I gave you evidence of his prophecy. That's where we were before you started trying to digress and asking me about credibility of the book of Isaiah.
Then why did you bring it up if it is not the issue? In my criteria, Mohammed is as credible as Owuor and that other phantom guy you introduced. I see nothing else to talk about them. You cherry picked and introduced Isaiah. If Isaiah prophesied the truth about Mohammed, Arabic and Qur'an then he also prophesied the truth about someone else. Do you agree?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel, so Jesus was not a prophet because he was arrested beaten and crucified was he fake?
Was John the baptist fake because they chopped off his head?
Was Zachariya (Zachariah) fake because they chopped him in half?
Was Musa (Moses) fake because his people refused to follow him into the promised land?
Was Ibrahim (Abraham) fake because his people banished (exiled) him from their country?
Was Yusuf (Joseph) fake because his brothers plotted against him?
Jesus was true John was true Zechariah was true Moses was true Abraham was true Joseph was true Mohammed was a charlatan, a molester, a nag and a fake. Like Owuor.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
@muriel
1. My opinion about Isaiah is not the issue now. We are now talking about credibility of prophet prophecised by Isaiah.
2. Your asking whether you should take Isaiah as truth is up to you to decide. We can discuss that later if you want
3. I'm saying you are jumping here and there and not focusing. First, you said Muhammad (pbuh) is not credible because he was just a street preacher.
I told you that is not criteria. Secondly, you said he is not credible because he was stoned and exiled by his people. I told you many of the credible prophets and messengers, which Muslims and Christians believe went through the same. Thirdly, I gave you evidence of his prophecy. That's where we were before you started trying to digress and asking me about credibility of the book of Isaiah.
Then why did you bring it up if it is not the issue? In my criteria, Mohammed is as credible as Owuor and that other phantom guy you introduced. I see nothing else to talk about them. You cherry picked and introduced Isaiah. If Isaiah prophesied the truth about Mohammed, Arabic and Qur'an then he also prophesied the truth about someone else. Do you agree? @muriel, what did I bring up? The credibility of Isaiah IS NOT AN ISSUE NOW, please read my sentence properly. You're the one bringing that up. How many times do I repeat by saying we can discuss it later if you want? You have a lot to talk about Muhammad (pbuh). You always have  Now you are talking. I agree to your last question. Now, let me ask you, what does the Bible say about Muhammad?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Why are you guys fretting and fussing over what you will obviously not see eye to eye on ? Muriel let alphdoti believe what he wants to believe Alphdoti let muriel believe what he wants to believe wacheni hizi ego contests.. this is not about understanding anything anymore its about winning an arguement. But If you wish to continue the downward spiral.. go on right ahead... 
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Mtu Biz wrote:Why are you guys fretting and fussing over what you will obviously not see eye to eye on ? Muriel let alphdoti believe what he wants to believe Alphdoti let muriel believe what he wants to believe wacheni hizi ego contests.. this is not about understanding anything anymore its about winning an arguement. But If you wish to continue the downward spiral.. go on right ahead... Mtu Biz, my brother. There is more ego in the dissection of Odumbe's character. That image makes me feel I am boring you. Perhaps I have upset you and disregarded your expectations of something particularly exciting. I am sorry if I have offended you. Only that I am not here primarily for the sake of a third party's feelings. I am 'practising'. Rehearsing for much more earnest efforts to overthrow something I hold dear in the only way I know how. If that is ego ,,,,, I did not know.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:@muriel, what did I bring up? The credibility of Isaiah IS NOT AN ISSUE NOW, please read my sentence properly. You're the one bringing that up. How many times do I repeat by saying we can discuss it later if you want? You have a lot to talk about Muhammad (pbuh). You always have Now you are talking. I agree to your last question. Now, let me ask you, what does the Bible say about Muhammad? The sooner you tackle it the faster you will get it out of the way. Then if you agree, (finally got you to agree to something) that Isaiah said the truth about someone, then that someone died for you. Didn't see that coming? From my understanding of the bible, it says that Mohammed is the angel of the bottomless pit from which arose a thick dark smoke that blackened the air and obscured the sun of righteousness saying he did not do anything for anyone. How can there be little to talk about for such a man?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Another Friday's sunset coming up.
Alphdoti & brother, see you later.
This is definitely a good time to take brother's advice - ain't no time to fret and fuss.
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