Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
Overpopulation - the fallacy
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
|
kiagio why do we need 7000 litres per day per person? again we have an acquifer which has 250bn meter cubes of water. tuko na maji bwana ni vile tu haija tumika. LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
|
quicksand wrote:kyt wrote:the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence. Nope. It is ethics. We have little to none. Ethics sit at the core of societal progress. Infrastructure is a result of human work and resources. Resources require discipline to be channeled properly, and we are in severe want of discipline. In the sixties, Kenya and South East Asia countries like S Korea, Malaysia, Singapore were roughly on the same economic footing; Now, those places are economic powerhouses due to hard work, focus and the famous Asian honesty, while we have cannibalised ourselves through corruption and tribal politics. The sad thing we can't unyoke ourselves. This generation of Kenyans is doomed to myopic endeavours and basic subsistence until we all die off and are completely replaced by better informed, more accepting, less tribal and more focused people; Probably the children of our children. Pity. Agree!
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
|
murchr wrote:Kaigangio wrote:kyt wrote:as it stands kiagio, we currently have 250BN cubic, yes with a B, meters of water. Now going by your estimate, we only require .2 billion cubic metres of water per year. to exhaust that water, we will need 1500 years!! that is 13 generations, kiagio! 13!! foresight is the lacking ingredient. we are busy chasing technopolis and industrial park while basic commodity is lacking. lakini hata wewe kiagio, 7000 litres per day unafanyia nini? kwani niko na ngamia 100 kwa nyumba? You still don't get it! The maximum amount of water at Kenya's disposal per year is only 20,291,000 million litres per year which is equivalent to 20,291 million cubic metres per year which is equivalent to 20.29 Billion cubic metres per year... You (Kenyans) are able to abstract an amount equal to 5.4% or 1096 million cubic metres per year... The per capita availability based on the abstraction value is therefore 1,096,000 million litres per year/40 million people = 27,400 litres/year per capita = 75.1 litres/day/capita!!!!!!! With that per capita availability it makes you one of the most water poor people on earth!!!! The other issue is usage of water at 7000 litres per day per capita...it is happening in the USA at their current level of industrialisation and demographic status coupled with their current living standards.... We also have some European countries approaching that per capita daily water consumption. Ohh come on shurrup!!! How can you compare Kenya a size of 582 650 SQ KMs to the US who's size is 9.857 million square kms @Murchr...When you want to compute a certain entity of a certain region you will need to use a certain uniform parameter which applies to all across the board irrespective of the region...so the land mass here is irrelevant in as far as that constant uniform parameter is concerned... to illustrate this...a question for you? What is the total mass of air in the US atmosphere contained in a column of of 10km? Now if this mass of air is compressed and fitted into the Kenyas atmosphere, what would be the pressure acting on you if you were located somewhere at the top of the Aberdares Range? Would you survive that pressure or not??? Also some guy wanted to know why we would need 12 planets identical to earth if we all lived by the US standards...and I gave a simple example of how this could be calculated...If you want more calculations based on different entities, i will far too willing to give you that...Note here US is the yard stick... If we consider Kenyan standards...that is if every body in the world lived by our standard we would need just a planet much smaller than the size of the moon!!!!   ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
|
kyt wrote:kiagio why do we need 7000 litres per day per person? again we have an acquifer which has 250bn meter cubes of water. tuko na maji bwana ni vile tu haija tumika. refer to my computations and try to understand them mr... Those are available genuine data of practical consumption values which have been established through utility supplies...you will see how this water is being utilised...the fact that you do not need that water does not mean that there are no other people in some certain regions who need it!!! So, if we have all that water, why do we have perennial water crisis?? Why are you ranked as one of the most water poor nation on earth??? ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
|
Kaigangio wrote:murchr wrote:Kaigangio wrote:kyt wrote:as it stands kiagio, we currently have 250BN cubic, yes with a B, meters of water. Now going by your estimate, we only require .2 billion cubic metres of water per year. to exhaust that water, we will need 1500 years!! that is 13 generations, kiagio! 13!! foresight is the lacking ingredient. we are busy chasing technopolis and industrial park while basic commodity is lacking. lakini hata wewe kiagio, 7000 litres per day unafanyia nini? kwani niko na ngamia 100 kwa nyumba? You still don't get it! The maximum amount of water at Kenya's disposal per year is only 20,291,000 million litres per year which is equivalent to 20,291 million cubic metres per year which is equivalent to 20.29 Billion cubic metres per year... You (Kenyans) are able to abstract an amount equal to 5.4% or 1096 million cubic metres per year... The per capita availability based on the abstraction value is therefore 1,096,000 million litres per year/40 million people = 27,400 litres/year per capita = 75.1 litres/day/capita!!!!!!! With that per capita availability it makes you one of the most water poor people on earth!!!! The other issue is usage of water at 7000 litres per day per capita...it is happening in the USA at their current level of industrialisation and demographic status coupled with their current living standards.... We also have some European countries approaching that per capita daily water consumption. Ohh come on shurrup!!! How can you compare Kenya a size of 582 650 SQ KMs to the US who's size is 9.857 million square kms @Murchr...When you want to compute a certain entity of a certain region you will need to use a certain uniform parameter which applies to all across the board irrespective of the region...so the land mass here is irrelevant in as far as that constant uniform parameter is concerned... to illustrate this...a question for you? What is the total mass of air in the US atmosphere contained in a column of of 10km? Now if this mass of air is compressed and fitted into the Kenyas atmosphere, what would be the pressure acting on you if you were located somewhere at the top of the Aberdares Range? Would you survive that pressure or not??? Also some guy wanted to know why we would need 12 planets identical to earth if we all lived by the US standards...and I gave a simple example of how this could be calculated...If you want more calculations based on different entities, i will far too willing to give you that...Note here US is the yard stick... If we consider Kenyan standards...that is if every body in the world lived by our standard we would need just a planet much smaller than the size of the moon!!!! Incase you dint notice, the reason why they...those saying that we'd require 12 planets if we all lived like those in the US...say so its because Americans live large..by all standards and the best example of responsible living given is Rwanda. Now lets go to the water issue. If my little geography serves me right, i am aware that water doesnt only come from rainfall, or the atmosphere (bla bla) melting glaciers of the Antarctica are a huge supplier of water in US, mind you glaciers cover over 75K SqKms most of these glaciers are located in Alaska and in Washington state, and they supply over 450Bn gallons of water (90% of the worlds fresh water). In states such as Arkansas, water springs out of the ground naturally...Nebraska too has large basins of underground water (aquifers) hence the loud noise about the Keystone pipeline. Whilst in Kenya, most of the water we depend on is derived from rain forests (Aberdares, Mau Kakamega etc) And the only reliable spring is Mzima springs which i understand is drying up since the snow on Kilimanjaro is melting up. So really one cant compare the US with Kenya if one is to derive a fair analysis of this situation, however, If you really want to compare Kenya with the US pick a state like Texas, such that where Kenya has the forests and the Mountains TX has aquifers. It rains more in Kenya than in TX but Texans taps never run dry simply because of MANAGEMENT of the resource and proper planning. All roads drain water (rain) into dams this water is then recycled pumped into tanks then piped into homes and establishments. In Kenya, almost all the water that falls from the sky drains into some swamp, or unmanned manhole-dam etc to some river and later to the ocean. There are no proper water collection mechanisms put inplace. To the 7000liters of water per day....that is the amount or water it takes to refine one barrel of crude oil. You may need to check and validate your data "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
quicksand wrote:kyt wrote:the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence. Nope. It is ethics. We have little to none. Ethics sit at the core of societal progress. Infrastructure is a result of human work and resources. Resources require discipline to be channeled properly, and we are in severe want of discipline. In the sixties, Kenya and South East Asia countries like S Korea, Malaysia, Singapore were roughly on the same economic footing; Now, those places are economic powerhouses due to hard work, focus and the famous Asian honesty, while we have cannibalised ourselves through corruption and tribal politics. The sad thing we can't unyoke ourselves. This generation of Kenyans is doomed to myopic endeavours and basic subsistence until we all die off and are completely replaced by better informed, more accepting, less tribal and more focused people; Probably the children of our children. Pity. It's not possible for humans not to have ethics.7 If you think about your vision for a better Kenya or Africa, you may see that it's a description of the present. 'We' are a better informed, more accepting, more focused, less tribal generation. There was a time when most citizens couldn't read and write in non 'native' language. And history is moving and static at the same 'time'. And is a function of deliberate action. So, it's possible for people to be better informed and have the qualities we are projecting and still not be happy or satisfied with 'our' living conditions, and 'their' living conditions.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
|
murchr wrote:Kaigangio wrote:murchr wrote:Kaigangio wrote:kyt wrote:as it stands kiagio, we currently have 250BN cubic, yes with a B, meters of water. Now going by your estimate, we only require .2 billion cubic metres of water per year. to exhaust that water, we will need 1500 years!! that is 13 generations, kiagio! 13!! foresight is the lacking ingredient. we are busy chasing technopolis and industrial park while basic commodity is lacking. lakini hata wewe kiagio, 7000 litres per day unafanyia nini? kwani niko na ngamia 100 kwa nyumba? You still don't get it! The maximum amount of water at Kenya's disposal per year is only 20,291,000 million litres per year which is equivalent to 20,291 million cubic metres per year which is equivalent to 20.29 Billion cubic metres per year... You (Kenyans) are able to abstract an amount equal to 5.4% or 1096 million cubic metres per year... The per capita availability based on the abstraction value is therefore 1,096,000 million litres per year/40 million people = 27,400 litres/year per capita = 75.1 litres/day/capita!!!!!!! With that per capita availability it makes you one of the most water poor people on earth!!!! The other issue is usage of water at 7000 litres per day per capita...it is happening in the USA at their current level of industrialisation and demographic status coupled with their current living standards.... We also have some European countries approaching that per capita daily water consumption. Ohh come on shurrup!!! How can you compare Kenya a size of 582 650 SQ KMs to the US who's size is 9.857 million square kms @Murchr...When you want to compute a certain entity of a certain region you will need to use a certain uniform parameter which applies to all across the board irrespective of the region...so the land mass here is irrelevant in as far as that constant uniform parameter is concerned... to illustrate this...a question for you? What is the total mass of air in the US atmosphere contained in a column of of 10km? Now if this mass of air is compressed and fitted into the Kenyas atmosphere, what would be the pressure acting on you if you were located somewhere at the top of the Aberdares Range? Would you survive that pressure or not??? Also some guy wanted to know why we would need 12 planets identical to earth if we all lived by the US standards...and I gave a simple example of how this could be calculated...If you want more calculations based on different entities, i will far too willing to give you that...Note here US is the yard stick... If we consider Kenyan standards...that is if every body in the world lived by our standard we would need just a planet much smaller than the size of the moon!!!! Incase you dint notice, the reason why they...those saying that we'd require 12 planets if we all lived like those in the US...say so its because Americans live large..by all standards and the best example of responsible living given is Rwanda. Now lets go to the water issue. If my little geography serves me right, i am aware that water doesnt only come from rainfall, or the atmosphere (bla bla) melting glaciers of the Antarctica are a huge supplier of water in US, mind you glaciers cover over 75K SqKms most of these glaciers are located in Alaska and in Washington state, and they supply over 450Bn gallons of water (90% of the worlds fresh water). In states such as Arkansas, water springs out of the ground naturally...Nebraska too has large basins of underground water (aquifers) hence the loud noise about the Keystone pipeline. Whilst in Kenya, most of the water we depend on is derived from rain forests (Aberdares, Mau Kakamega etc) And the only reliable spring is Mzima springs which i understand is drying up since the snow on Kilimanjaro is melting up. So really one cant compare the US with Kenya if one is to derive a fair analysis of this situation, however, If you really want to compare Kenya with the US pick a state like Texas, such that where Kenya has the forests and the Mountains TX has aquifers. It rains more in Kenya than in TX but Texans taps never run dry simply because of MANAGEMENT of the resource and proper planning. All roads drain water (rain) into dams this water is then recycled pumped into tanks then piped into homes and establishments. In Kenya, almost all the water that falls from the sky drains into some swamp, or unmanned manhole-dam etc to some river and later to the ocean. There are no proper water collection mechanisms put inplace. To the 7000liters of water per day....that is the amount or water it takes to refine one barrel of crude oil. You may need to check and validate your data What are you saying that I did not notice? I am the one who introduced that comparison bwana and i have been trying to explain to you why it is true that the planet earth does not have enough resourcec to sustain the US socio-economic standards if the same were practised by all the countries on earth!!! My friend you should hang your geography teacher...US does not get any water from Antarctica. This continent Antarctica is located some 14,500km south of United States!!!! It does not matter the source of US water whether rainfall, underground, melting snow etc...we already know about these sources...the question is do you know how much water is consumed in US per day??? check here below from my earlier post: Quote:....In US from the latest available water drawn data, the following is a schedule of how Americans live large on this water resource in litres per day:
1. Public Supply = 239,927.0 million litres per day
2. Domestic = 19,892.3 million litres per day
3. Irrigation = 759,121.1 million litres per day
4. Livestock = 9,752.2 million litres per day
5. Aquaculture = 20,501.8 million litres per day
6. Industrial = 109,158.3 million litres per day
7. Mining = 19,338.2 million litres per day
8. Thermoelectric = 1,080,501.0 million litres per day
Total Volume = 2,258,191.9 Million litres per day
Next, current population of United States of America = 316 million
Water usage per day per capita = 2,258,191.9m l/d / 316m
= 7146.2 litres/day/capita.... Could you also observe how the per capita water usage was arrived at!! I just hope this time around the question of the 7000litres per day per capita will be laid to rest... ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 7/9/2011 Posts: 730 Location: Nairobi
|
Rollout wrote:quicksand wrote:kyt wrote:the only thing that the west has above us, is infrastructure, before houses come in, roads come in; elec comes in, water comes in, sewerage comes in, postal services, cable, internet, the works!! huku ni vice-versa. hapo ndio shida inakuwanga, planning is good for the quality of life in a residence. Nope. It is ethics. We have little to none. Ethics sit at the core of societal progress. Infrastructure is a result of human work and resources. Resources require discipline to be channeled properly, and we are in severe want of discipline. In the sixties, Kenya and South East Asia countries like S Korea, Malaysia, Singapore were roughly on the same economic footing; Now, those places are economic powerhouses due to hard work, focus and the famous Asian honesty, while we have cannibalised ourselves through corruption and tribal politics. The sad thing we can't unyoke ourselves. This generation of Kenyans is doomed to myopic endeavours and basic subsistence until we all die off and are completely replaced by better informed, more accepting, less tribal and more focused people; Probably the children of our children. Pity. Agree! I find the example of putting Kenya and other African countries at par with Asian tigers in the 60s a little misplaced at times. Asian countries had undergone a lot of social development for decades building up to the 60s and therefore were poised economic development in subsequent years. On the other hand most African countries were just getting out of an almost 'pre-medival' society at this time (very low life expctancy, low literacy levels, prevalent diseases, childhood mortality, poor nutrition, low school enrollment....). Although places like Nairobi and Harare had fairly well organized societies, the bulk of our people and economies were behind Asian Tiger countries and societies by far. Coupled with the SAP programmes imposed by IMF on African countries and concurrent political instability across Africa, it is no wonder that the Asian countries made the leap that Africans are going to make in coming decades. Back to the thread's topic, population experts have argued that the world population will peak at 11 billion by the end of this century and then start to decrease. In most places in the world teh population is at repacement level except Africa where it is thought we are going to peak at 4 billion. Hans Gosling presents it very well at a Ted Talk http://www.ted.com/talks...lobal_population_growth
America is most wasteful country in energy and resources in the world (even when compared with other developed countries). On a related note, it is unfortunate developing countries are being discouraged to use fossil fuels like coal which can be easily developed to provide cheap energy. Climate change is real but a future problem. We already live in a society that needs energh now and here. In my opinion overpopulation is not a threat but is being propagated by agencies in the world that are propagating covert malthusian population control programmes our goals are best achieved indirectly
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
|
Kaigangio wrote:Could you also observe how the per capita water usage was arrived at!!
I just hope this time around the question of the 7000litres per day per capita will be laid to rest... Is it possible to publicize a hype to push for a certain agenda?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
|
AlphDoti wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Could you also observe how the per capita water usage was arrived at!!
I just hope this time around the question of the 7000litres per day per capita will be laid to rest... Is it possible to publicize a hype to push for a certain agenda? Yes it is possible depending on the intention and to whom it is meant for...for those who cannot carry out a simple arithmetic... Take for example before the year 2009 Kibera slums was the biggest in the world with a population of close to 2,500,000 million people...the was a total of about 4000 registered NGOs that were operating in the slams mostly funded by external donors and wellwishers... Come the juicy part...after 2009 census Kibera slums became one of the smallest slum in the world with a total population of about 170,000...Most of the NGOs varnished overnight after this census... Tuko pamoja ndugu yangu> ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
Overpopulation - the fallacy
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|