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Reports: Doping rampant hapa nchini in all sports
kizee1
#11 Posted : Saturday, December 20, 2014 1:57:41 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi


cases of doping have not exploded,if anything the levels are constant new testing methods are making it easier to catch cheats, in the past all they(WADA) tested for was steroids, so ATHLETES started flushing them out using diuretics, so they added diuretics to the list, they added a test for hematocrit levels( catch blood dopers)they can test for hgh levels as well...
Alba
#12 Posted : Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:02:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
kizee1 wrote:




1. Fans want to see their teams win and to witness superhuman feats, no one will pay to watch sub par athletes perform



The team with better chemicals will win. When fans see their teams constantly losing to teams with better chemicals they will lose interest.

Fans will not stomach losing to a team that is winning, not by skill or natural ability but by having better chemicals.

Secondly, who told you that athletes who are not doping are sub par. I personally do no think Rudisha, Jelimo, Kiptanui et al are doping. And they are hardly sub par. As far back as 1978 there was Henry Rono setting 3 world records in a year.

Quote:

2. The side you have listed are sides of some variants of testosterone, not all variants produce them and also those who know what they are doing don't get affected, that notwithstanding, the term doping refers to the use of various drugs, testosterone being one others being hgh,insulin,EPO amongst others, these sides dont occur when these are used not that these are safe


Chemists are always rushing to produce the next great chemical. When a new chemical is produced, nobody knows the side effects. You speak of EPO but that has been around for a decade. When a new synthetic drug is produced, it is often given t athletes without even knowing the side effects.

Athletes are always using the latest synthetic drug whose side effects they do not understand. Why do you think Flo-Jo died of a heart attack at age 36?

Quote:
3. Nature is the biggest cheat, some of us are born taller than others stronger smarter etc sport will never be fair, the champ will always be the champ even in sports like bodybuilding where 100% usage of PEDS occurs a champ stands out


I am not sure what your point is. But two things occur to me:
a. People want to see athletes win by natural ability. They do not like cheats. Kenyans are proud of their athletes now. If they find out its not natural ability but doping, all the pride will go out the window. In fact many Kenyans are starting to lose pride in their athletes now.

b. The champ will not always win if he is competing against a person who is doping.

Quote:

4. To add to point one PEDs dont make you a champ, they allow you to stay in the game by reducing recovery times strengthening muscles thus preparing one better for their discipline...thats all from me


PEDs do indeed make you a champ.
Lok at Ben Johnson. When he was on steroids he regularly clocked 9.79 and 9.83 for the 100m. When he stopped doping he could not even run below 10.00

Same thing with Dwain Chambers. When he was doping, he ran a career best 9.85. After he was banned and re-0instated, he has never run faster than 10.05.

And Flo Jo would never have won Olympic gold without doping. She was not even good enough to qualify for 100m in 1984 then suddenly in 1988 she was Olympic champ.

And Read the story of Kelli White. Before doping she says she was not even good enough to qualify. Doping made her world champion.

Also doping helps you remain at your best for a longer time. Our own Rita Jeptoo was on the wane. she had gone 6 years without ever winning a city marathon. Her husband says she started doping in 2012. And she went from losing form to winning Chicago and Boston multiple times
Mukiri
#13 Posted : Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:19:47 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Alba wrote:
kizee1 wrote:




1. Fans want to see their teams win and to witness superhuman feats, no one will pay to watch sub par athletes perform



The team with better chemicals will win. When fans see their teams constantly losing to teams with better chemicals they will lose interest.

Fans will not stomach losing to a team that is winning, not by skill or natural ability but by having better chemicals.

Secondly, who told you that athletes who are not doping are sub par. I personally do no think Rudisha, Jelimo, Kiptanui et al are doping. And they are hardly sub par. As far back as 1978 there was Henry Rono setting 3 world records in a year.

Quote:

2. The side you have listed are sides of some variants of testosterone, not all variants produce them and also those who know what they are doing don't get affected, that notwithstanding, the term doping refers to the use of various drugs, testosterone being one others being hgh,insulin,EPO amongst others, these sides dont occur when these are used not that these are safe


Chemists are always rushing to produce the next great chemical. When a new chemical is produced, nobody knows the side effects. You speak of EPO but that has been around for a decade. When a new synthetic drug is produced, it is often given t athletes without even knowing the side effects.

Athletes are always using the latest synthetic drug whose side effects they do not understand. Why do you think Flo-Jo died of a heart attack at age 36?

Quote:
3. Nature is the biggest cheat, some of us are born taller than others stronger smarter etc sport will never be fair, the champ will always be the champ even in sports like bodybuilding where 100% usage of PEDS occurs a champ stands out


I am not sure what your point is. But two things occur to me:
a. People want to see athletes win by natural ability. They do not like cheats. Kenyans are proud of their athletes now. If they find out its not natural ability but doping, all the pride will go out the window. In fact many Kenyans are starting to lose pride in their athletes now.

b. The champ will not always win if he is competing against a person who is doping.

Quote:

4. To add to point one PEDs dont make you a champ, they allow you to stay in the game by reducing recovery times strengthening muscles thus preparing one better for their discipline...thats all from me


PEDs do indeed make you a champ.
Lok at Ben Johnson. When he was on steroids he regularly clocked 9.79 and 9.83 for the 100m. When he stopped doping he could not even run below 10.00

Same thing with Dwain Chambers. When he was doping, he ran a career best 9.85. After he was banned and re-0instated, he has never run faster than 10.05.

And Flo Jo would never have won Olympic gold without doping. She was not even good enough to qualify for 100m in 1984 then suddenly in 1988 she was Olympic champ.

And Read the story of Kelli White. Before doping she says she was not even good enough to qualify. Doping made her world champion.

Also doping helps you remain at your best for a longer time. Our own Rita Jeptoo was on the wane. she had gone 6 years without ever winning a city marathon. Her husband says she started doping in 2012. And she went from losing form to winning Chicago and Boston multiple times

Sad Grim picture. I want to believe in my country.

Proverbs 19:21
washiku
#14 Posted : Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:27:45 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Na hizo dopping tings zinauzangwa wapi na pesa ngapi? Ningetaka kumaliza 42km Marathon in less than 5 hrs.d'oh! d'oh!

Hii ni kwa sababu they only seem to concentrate on the fast runners. Wengine wetu tunataka tu kumaliza
Mukiri
#15 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:28:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
washiku wrote:
Na hizo dopping tings zinauzangwa wapi na pesa ngapi? Ningetaka kumaliza 42km Marathon in less than 5 hrs.d'oh! d'oh!

Hii ni kwa sababu they only seem to concentrate on the fast runners. Wengine wetu tunataka tu kumaliza

Alafu kama unazimeza ndio umalize marathon, kitu ambayoyo haitawahi kukusaidia maisha, upatie bibi @Swenani, ndio apate haki yake

Proverbs 19:21
washiku
#16 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:53:13 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
Mukiri wrote:
washiku wrote:
Na hizo dopping tings zinauzangwa wapi na pesa ngapi? Ningetaka kumaliza 42km Marathon in less than 5 hrs.d'oh! d'oh!

Hii ni kwa sababu they only seem to concentrate on the fast runners. Wengine wetu tunataka tu kumaliza

Alafu kama unazimeza ndio umalize marathon, kitu ambayoyo haitawahi kukusaidia maisha, upatie bibi @Swenani, ndio apate haki yake


Laughing out loudly I change my mind
quicksand
#17 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2014 7:28:12 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
Alba wrote:
kizee1 wrote:




1. Fans want to see their teams win and to witness superhuman feats, no one will pay to watch sub par athletes perform



The team with better chemicals will win. When fans see their teams constantly losing to teams with better chemicals they will lose interest.

Fans will not stomach losing to a team that is winning, not by skill or natural ability but by having better chemicals.

Secondly, who told you that athletes who are not doping are sub par. I personally do no think Rudisha, Jelimo, Kiptanui et al are doping. And they are hardly sub par. As far back as 1978 there was Henry Rono setting 3 world records in a year.

Quote:

2. The side you have listed are sides of some variants of testosterone, not all variants produce them and also those who know what they are doing don't get affected, that notwithstanding, the term doping refers to the use of various drugs, testosterone being one others being hgh,insulin,EPO amongst others, these sides dont occur when these are used not that these are safe


Chemists are always rushing to produce the next great chemical. When a new chemical is produced, nobody knows the side effects. You speak of EPO but that has been around for a decade. When a new synthetic drug is produced, it is often given t athletes without even knowing the side effects.

Athletes are always using the latest synthetic drug whose side effects they do not understand. Why do you think Flo-Jo died of a heart attack at age 36?

Quote:
3. Nature is the biggest cheat, some of us are born taller than others stronger smarter etc sport will never be fair, the champ will always be the champ even in sports like bodybuilding where 100% usage of PEDS occurs a champ stands out


I am not sure what your point is. But two things occur to me:
a. People want to see athletes win by natural ability. They do not like cheats. Kenyans are proud of their athletes now. If they find out its not natural ability but doping, all the pride will go out the window. In fact many Kenyans are starting to lose pride in their athletes now.

b. The champ will not always win if he is competing against a person who is doping.

Quote:

4. To add to point one PEDs dont make you a champ, they allow you to stay in the game by reducing recovery times strengthening muscles thus preparing one better for their discipline...thats all from me


PEDs do indeed make you a champ.
Lok at Ben Johnson. When he was on steroids he regularly clocked 9.79 and 9.83 for the 100m. When he stopped doping he could not even run below 10.00

Same thing with Dwain Chambers. When he was doping, he ran a career best 9.85. After he was banned and re-0instated, he has never run faster than 10.05.

And Flo Jo would never have won Olympic gold without doping. She was not even good enough to qualify for 100m in 1984 then suddenly in 1988 she was Olympic champ.

And Read the story of Kelli White. Before doping she says she was not even good enough to qualify. Doping made her world champion.

Also doping helps you remain at your best for a longer time. Our own Rita Jeptoo was on the wane. she had gone 6 years without ever winning a city marathon. Her husband says she started doping in 2012. And she went from losing form to winning Chicago and Boston multiple times

Sad Grim picture. I want to believe in my country.

And a staggering Kshs 54 million potential payday goes up in smoke.
Now race directors all over the world will be wary of inviting Kenyan runners except those with a consistent and squeaky clean testing history, the prize packets reduced,...misery all round.
Waah!!!!
kizee1
#18 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:58:59 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
Alba wrote:
kizee1 wrote:




1. Fans want to see their teams win and to witness superhuman feats, no one will pay to watch sub par athletes perform



The team with better chemicals will win. When fans see their teams constantly losing to teams with better chemicals they will lose interest.

Fans will not stomach losing to a team that is winning, not by skill or natural ability but by having better chemicals.

Secondly, who told you that athletes who are not doping are sub par. I personally do no think Rudisha, Jelimo, Kiptanui et al are doping. And they are hardly sub par. As far back as 1978 there was Henry Rono setting 3 world records in a year.

Quote:

2. The side you have listed are sides of some variants of testosterone, not all variants produce them and also those who know what they are doing don't get affected, that notwithstanding, the term doping refers to the use of various drugs, testosterone being one others being hgh,insulin,EPO amongst others, these sides dont occur when these are used not that these are safe


Chemists are always rushing to produce the next great chemical. When a new chemical is produced, nobody knows the side effects. You speak of EPO but that has been around for a decade. When a new synthetic drug is produced, it is often given t athletes without even knowing the side effects.

Athletes are always using the latest synthetic drug whose side effects they do not understand. Why do you think Flo-Jo died of a heart attack at age 36?

Quote:
3. Nature is the biggest cheat, some of us are born taller than others stronger smarter etc sport will never be fair, the champ will always be the champ even in sports like bodybuilding where 100% usage of PEDS occurs a champ stands out


I am not sure what your point is. But two things occur to me:
a. People want to see athletes win by natural ability. They do not like cheats. Kenyans are proud of their athletes now. If they find out its not natural ability but doping, all the pride will go out the window. In fact many Kenyans are starting to lose pride in their athletes now.

b. The champ will not always win if he is competing against a person who is doping.

Quote:

4. To add to point one PEDs dont make you a champ, they allow you to stay in the game by reducing recovery times strengthening muscles thus preparing one better for their discipline...thats all from me


PEDs do indeed make you a champ.
Lok at Ben Johnson. When he was on steroids he regularly clocked 9.79 and 9.83 for the 100m. When he stopped doping he could not even run below 10.00

Same thing with Dwain Chambers. When he was doping, he ran a career best 9.85. After he was banned and re-0instated, he has never run faster than 10.05.

And Flo Jo would never have won Olympic gold without doping. She was not even good enough to qualify for 100m in 1984 then suddenly in 1988 she was Olympic champ.

And Read the story of Kelli White. Before doping she says she was not even good enough to qualify. Doping made her world champion.

Also doping helps you remain at your best for a longer time. Our own Rita Jeptoo was on the wane. she had gone 6 years without ever winning a city marathon. Her husband says she started doping in 2012. And she went from losing form to winning Chicago and Boston multiple times


1. As regards fans, they will support winners, you can say what you want but sport is never fair

2. THE CHAMP WILL ALWAYS BE THE CHAMP, at the point you make it to the 100m finals of a major games you have the genetic disposition to be a champ, drugs give you that extra allowing you to train harder recover faster, funny u mention ben johnson, well every single athlete in the 88 100m finals failed a test before or after that race, including carl lewis

note this: drugs merely are the icing on the cake they allow you to train harder recover faster...steroids are actually said to slow an athlete in an explosive sport down

3. Laughable that you say people like those who win by natural ability? what is natural ability isn't testosterone natural? what is more natural a wind contoured bike and suit or testosterone?

i had the same deluded view point most have on PEDs in sports until i watched the docu BIGGER STRONGER FASTER...watch it and see what i mean
Alba
#19 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2014 4:08:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
kizee1 wrote:




1. As regards fans, they will support winners, you can say what you want but sport is never fair


Eti people only support winners. Then how come many of us here on Wazua support Harambee stars yet they are perennial losers? How come people here support Arsenal yet they havent won a league title in a decade. Do you know that Arsenal has the highest number of fans in Africa?
If people only supported winners then no one would support such loser teams.
Wacha mzaha bana
The fact that sport is never fair does not mean cheats should be allowed to prosper. Based on your poor logic then since life is never fair, then the police should just allow criminals to steal

Quote:
2. THE CHAMP WILL ALWAYS BE THE CHAMP, at the point you make it to the 100m finals of a major games you have the genetic disposition to be a champ, drugs give you that extra allowing you to train harder recover faster, funny u mention ben johnson, well every single athlete in the 88 100m finals failed a test before or after that race, including carl lewis


I have already provided examples of people who admitted that without doping they could never win anything.
Read Kelli White's story here
- She was not good enough to qualify for the world indoors
- She never had won a California title in high school or a conference or NCAA title

yet when she started doping she won the 100- and 200-meter titles in the U.S. championships in June and the world championships in Paris in August2003.

And ask yourself, why were East German women winning every medal in the 1970s and 1980s yet they cant win any medal nowadays.

So your notion that the champ will always be the champ is bogus.


Quote:
note this: drugs merely are the icing on the cake they allow you to train harder recover faster...steroids are actually said to slow an athlete in an explosive sport down


This must be a joke. EPO which Jeptoo took works by increasing red blood cell count. EPO also increases oxyten intake (V02 Max)

In addition to helping recovery, steroids increase muscle mass and muscle strength. Thats why its used in baseball where hitting the ball further is important. In sprinting, larger muscle mass propels you further which makes you run faster.

Quote:
3. Laughable that you say people like those who win by natural ability? what is natural ability isn't testosterone natural? what is more natural a wind contoured bike and suit or testosterone?


Testosterone is natural but artifically elevated levels of testosterone are a sign of cheating. Thats how the biological passport now used by IAAF works. They measure your typical testosterone levels then monitor any spikes.

Some people are more naturally talented than others. Some people like David Rudisha, Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt and Shaquille O'Neal are genetic outliers. Why is it so difficult for you to understand what natural ability is?

Quote:
i had the same deluded view point most have on PEDs in sports until i watched the docu BIGGER STRONGER FASTER...watch it and see what i mean


You are still delusional. That documentary has has misled you.
nakujua
#20 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2014 12:32:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Quote:

In addition to helping recovery, steroids increase muscle mass and muscle strength. Thats why its used in baseball where hitting the ball further is important. In sprinting, larger muscle mass propels you further which makes you run faster.

aai!
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