wazua Sun, Aug 24, 2025
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

3 Pages123>
"Breaking' the randoM patTern
symbols
#1 Posted : Tuesday, December 09, 2014 9:11:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
symbols
#2 Posted : Tuesday, December 09, 2014 11:22:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.
symbols
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 09, 2014 11:43:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:00:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Do you study dreams?
Muriel
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:12:13 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


I love patterns.

I was once an aimless wanderer, I didn't know who I was, where I was from or where I was headed.

Then a pattern found me.

The random pattern and patterened randomness I saw was indeed a patterned pattern.
Wakanyugi
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:13:18 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Muriel
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:48:09 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


We don't lend meaning to anything, brother Wakanyugi.

Everything is. Therefore, reality is pattern. And I love it.
KulaRaha
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:51:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Nothing in this world is random, it all has a mathematical pattern.
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
symbols
#9 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:04:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
tycho wrote:
Do you study dreams?


I study myself.
symbols
#10 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:12:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
Muriel wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


I love patterns.

I was once an aimless wanderer, I didn't know who I was, where I was from or where I was headed.

Then a pattern found me.

The random pattern and patterened randomness I saw was indeed a patterned pattern.


What pattern found you?
symbols
#11 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:22:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


If you're conscious meaning is there.Death and life(X-axis),pain and pleasure(Y-axis).Z-axis,still looking.
tycho
#12 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:30:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
symbols wrote:
tycho wrote:
Do you study dreams?


I study myself.


Ah!
symbols
#13 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:31:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
KulaRaha wrote:
Nothing in this world is random, it all has a mathematical pattern.


If that's the case then all is as it's meant to be.
Wakanyugi
#14 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:20:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


We don't lend meaning to anything, brother Wakanyugi.

Everything is. Therefore, reality is pattern. And I love it.


Words often fail me my friend. And these days I try to avoid baiting my brother Tycho, its my Christmas present to him. But, here is what I meant, to say (the long version).

Patterns, and their perception thereof, is the process by which consciousness generates the illusion of space/time, without which reality, as constructed within the 3D frame, would lack meaning.

In other words: you need a plurality of objects (at least two) to create pattern (Singularity is patternless and therefore meaningless). You also need consciousness to interpret that pattern (give it meaning).

How does that sound? smile


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#15 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:26:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
KulaRaha wrote:
Nothing in this world is random, it all has a mathematical pattern.


Exactly!

There is even a whole science dedicated to the understanding of the 'random/probabilistic' nature of reality. We call it Quantum Mechanics.

Our reality maybe weird but it is certainly not random.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#16 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:35:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
symbols wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


If you're conscious meaning is there.Death and life(X-axis),pain and pleasure(Y-axis).Z-axis,still looking.


Consciousness is not really equatable to life and death. Death is the absence of body animation - up to a certain extent. But consciousness I believe exists even in 'things' that could be termed by humans as 'dead.'

Consciousness is not something within you. Just the reverse. In fact I believe there is only one consciousness, within which all reality manifests. It does not stop because your body stops.




"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#17 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:10:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Actually @Wakanyugi, I had thought of Nash, but then I realized that though others couldn't see the patterns he was seeing, it doesn't follow that the patterns weren't there.

So in a sense you baited yourself.
Muriel
#18 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:22:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Wakanyugi wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


We don't lend meaning to anything, brother Wakanyugi.

Everything is. Therefore, reality is pattern. And I love it.


Words often fail me my friend. And these days I try to avoid baiting my brother Tycho, its my Christmas present to him. But, here is what I meant, to say (the long version).

Patterns, and their perception thereof, is the process by which consciousness generates the illusion of space/time, without which reality, as constructed within the 3D frame, would lack meaning.

In other words: you need a plurality of objects (at least two) to create pattern (Singularity is patternless and therefore meaningless). You also need consciousness to interpret that pattern (give it meaning).

How does that sound? smile





Still does not sound right, brother Wakanyugi.

I think patterns are independent of perception. Patterns preceed the knowledge of them. That is why and how they are perceived. Patterns exists first then they are known of after. Therefore, consciousness cannot generate pattern.

And, how can there be plurarity when there is singularity? If indeed there is pattern, hence, plurarity then there cannot be singularity. Consciousness that perceives pattern conceives plurality.

Needless to say I love the idea of plurality, for it accommodates the concept of 'renegadeness'.
symbols
#19 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:25:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


If you're conscious meaning is there.Death and life(X-axis),pain and pleasure(Y-axis).Z-axis,still looking.


Consciousness is not really equatable to life and death. Death is the absence of body animation - up to a certain extent. But consciousness I believe exists even in 'things' that could be termed by humans as 'dead.'

Consciousness is not something within you. Just the reverse. In fact I believe there is only one consciousness, within which all reality manifests. It does not stop because your body stops.






It's not about equating consciousness with life and death or pain and pleasure but plotting meaning using them.

Something might be pleasurable and closely associated to death or life.Another might be unpleasant but not associated to life or death.The variations and the context,are to me, at the 'root' of perception and decision making.

Even the meaning we give life and death is influenced by our relationship with pain and pleasure.The meaning we give pain and pleasure is influenced by our perception of life and death.
Wakanyugi
#20 Posted : Wednesday, December 10, 2014 5:42:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
Muriel wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
symbols wrote:
I love patterns and/or I love 'perceiving' patterns.If a pattern exists,there is satisfaction in discovering it.If there is no pattern,there is dis/satisfaction.

Thrill of the chase and chase of the thrill.Security in certainty and excitement in uncertainty.Witnessing the past,visualizing the future and presenting the present.

Real or perceived,food for thought.

Random patterns and/or patterned randomness.Mhhhh.


Careful! Remember what happened to John Nash (he of 'A Beautiful Mind'). He started seeing patterns even where there were none. Then he went crazy.

On a different note: perceiving patters is one of the key ways we lend meaning to reality - highly constrained by the boundaries of space/time of course. As such 'random' is only a 'pattern' that we have not lent meaning to, yet.


We don't lend meaning to anything, brother Wakanyugi.

Everything is. Therefore, reality is pattern. And I love it.


Words often fail me my friend. And these days I try to avoid baiting my brother Tycho, its my Christmas present to him. But, here is what I meant, to say (the long version).

Patterns, and their perception thereof, is the process by which consciousness generates the illusion of space/time, without which reality, as constructed within the 3D frame, would lack meaning.

In other words: you need a plurality of objects (at least two) to create pattern (Singularity is patternless and therefore meaningless). You also need consciousness to interpret that pattern (give it meaning).

How does that sound? smile





Still does not sound right, brother Wakanyugi.

I think patterns are independent of perception. Patterns preceed the knowledge of them. That is why and how they are perceived. Patterns exists first then they are known of after. Therefore, consciousness cannot generate pattern.

And, how can there be plurarity when there is singularity? If indeed there is pattern, hence, plurarity then there cannot be singularity. Consciousness that perceives pattern conceives plurality.

Needless to say I love the idea of plurality, for it accommodates the concept of 'renegadeness'.


Let me try once again: patterns do not precede knowledge (my view). They come into existence once consciousness (we/observer, if you like) interprets them, gives them meaning. Without an observer to give them meaning there is no pattern and the object or event described by that pattern is invisible to us.

The story is told that when Columbus landed in the America's the natives who first saw him and his team come ashore could not see the ship anchored behind them. Their conceptual reality held no idea of a 'house' floating on water. The pattern we call 'ship' was invisible to them. Of course that later changed.

As for the plurality/singularity maneno, I think we killed that horse, several times. All I am saying is, if we take space/time as real (it is not) then you need a plurality of objects or events existing within the space/time matrix in order to perceive pattern, or space, or time.

Consciousness interprets the relationship between two or more objects or events as pattern. If you existed alone in the Universe there would be no pattern and therefore no space and no time as we know them.

I hope that is vague enough?

P.S. I often wonder how much of the reality around us remains invisible to us simply because we can not perceive the projected patterns.

"There are more things in heaven and earth Horatio..." quoth the Bard

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Users browsing this topic
Guest
3 Pages123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2025 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.