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Despite the rally, notable laggards.
cnn
#41 Posted : Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:36:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,619
Kenya re at below 13 is a buy for me.I bailed out of HFCK at 19,even if you give it a 50% growth its PE will still be in the range of 15.
VituVingiSana
#42 Posted : Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:26:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@the deal:

KQ traded 4.3mn shares!!! The initial trading was a feint...

After lunch the trades JUMPED... I saw a single trade for 1mn shares!!!
And then KQ closed at 57 i.e. sellers had disappeared & buyers were inching the price up.

Kesho will be interesting for KQ.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mukiha
#43 Posted : Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:06:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Did anyone here buy KQ at sh20 on 30th Sept?

Gosh, you must be truly happy!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
kishindo
#44 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 10:26:37 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/11/2008
Posts: 121
@ mukiha..mine was just pure luck got some 3k in march @17...got off at 50...had no strategy,and paka has been gooooood to me,been accumulating at an average of 2.60 since feb 2009 n got off at 4 bob. I use paka,olympia,mumias & express to speculate...these 'badly performing'counters.
however,i'm really itching to get back into KQ..but maybe i'm becoming greedy!
Less is more....for Architects only!!
mukiha
#45 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 10:34:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@kishindo; Good for you!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
guru267
#46 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 10:37:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@mukiha u can't get into Kq now.. its not supported by any fundamentals at this price... its rising purely on foreign speculation and interest which is starting to wane.. i dont see any more upside from here Shame on you
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#47 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:14:09 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@guru I am NOT saying you are wrong... lakini what lack of fundamentals are you talking about for KQ?

As for share price... I do not know but I am reasonably confident that their financial performance will be much better than last year EVEN after 'discounting' the Hedge Losses.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#48 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:15:36 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
kishindo wrote:
paka has been gooooood to me,been accumulating at an average of 2.60 since feb 2009 n got off at 4 bob. I use paka,olympia,mumias & express to speculate...these 'badly performing'counters.
however,i'm really itching to get back into KQ..but maybe i'm becoming greedy!


On paka you are brave. I never go into paka coz scared of merali lakini maybe I will try your strategy!!!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#49 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 3:52:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
@guru I am NOT saying you are wrong... lakini what lack of fundamentals are you talking about for KQ?

As for share price... I do not know but I am reasonably confident that their financial performance will be much better than last year EVEN after 'discounting' the Hedge Losses.




the reason analysts have priced this stock btwn 33-41 is simply when its profits turn positive this year so will its P/E and thats when u'll see what i'm talking about...

full year P.A.T must be above 2billion to even have a small chance at supporting current price.. i just dont see that for 2010
right now the risk is MUCH higher than the reward.
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#50 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 7:20:37 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@guru:

2bn PAT = EPS of 4.32

With or without Hedges?

With Hedge Gains (based on 1H 2009-10 results)... PAT will be above 2bn
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#51 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 10:35:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Vitu vingi sana.... i got in at 18 and out at 50 basing on that judgement... but if ur right i'll jump right back in to it after the annoncement...

but if i'm right and ur wrong.........Pray
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#52 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 11:26:04 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@guru - After the announcement might be too late!

I used the 1H results since (including Hedging Gains) the PAT is at Kes 2.2bn

The EPS (before Hedge Gains) was 1.84 (PAT 860mn)

They paid 600mn 'extra' as back pay after the strike. KQ lost 3 days of business (+ other costs including hotels, compensation, etc).

Hedge gains = Kes 1.3bn.
I am confident (unless oil drops dramatically in the next 2 months) that KQ will post PAT of 2bn+ (as long as u include Hedge Gains).

KQ might even post PAT (before Hedge Gains) of 2bn. All the crap in 1H with the extra salaries & strikes & they made 860mn in 1H

Now... all that said... the share price moves to a different beat.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mukiha
#53 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 11:46:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@guru; trippled your money in 0 months....that's good; but with that kind of gain, why did you sell your holding in full?

@VVS; I like your optimism, but bear in mind that the market might not respond in correspondence to the results. There is also the factor of demand: what if the large buys interested in this stock buy their stakes before the results?

Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
VituVingiSana
#54 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 12:16:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@mukiha - I look at numbers but as I said the share prices march to a different beat!!!

You note I am NOT discussing price but profits. If KQ can be consistent then the price will catch up.

IMHO, KQ should have an EPS of 5/- or better (even without hedge gains) for FY 2009-10. We will know on 31 May!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#55 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 1:15:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@VVS i see ur point from the hedging point of view but i realised on the NSE one can wait until after the annoncement due to a slow market response... which takes about a week...


@mukiha.. i liquidated everythin cos this is a really risky snd speculative counter... i really dont like this example but iwouldnt want to think what would have happened if it was KQ today instead of ethiopian...

wtith counters like this i usually hit my target and run to someting defensive.. then wait for the next oppurtunity...
why doesnt anyone talk about KPLC???
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#56 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 10:19:23 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@guru

Go find a thread I started Taking Positions in 2010
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Cicero
#57 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:30:48 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 111
I have to agree were it KQ which experienced what Ethiopian did yesterday they many wazurians including myself would have suffered greatly.

I had KQ during the other accident and being quite sentimental i thought it better to keep the share and see how it was going to play out having bought it for a pricely KES 110. I watched as the share plummeted down rapidly towards 80 and was lucky to change my mind and sell the damn thing at 88.

This time i am scared of being caught out. Even when a plane comes off the sky in the Atlantic (AF) or in the mediteranean (ET) i always get jittery with memory of what happened to me. But luckily i had already sold half of KQ to take profits by the time news of ET hit the market. I dont think there is need to sell anymore as i am sure when the results come in may, and with a PE of 5 or less and a divided of 1 bob+ the KQ share will hit 80 or more and it's bad to miss out on that whatever the risk (or "the pancake justifies the risk", as i used to say when stealing my grandmas pancakes) ...
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it...
cnn
#58 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:17:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,619
Huge trading in EQUITY,turnover 320 million so far today,3%of issued shares traded over the last 10 days.If only it was possible to know who is selling so heavily,some blocks of sale are so huge.
VituVingiSana
#59 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:01:12 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,120
Location: Nairobi
@cnn - Some of these deals are 'pre-negotiated' i.e. the Sellers have already found Buyers (thru brokers, etc)

Helios might be raising cash?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
cnn
#60 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:34:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,619
@VVS,with NBK and kenya-uganda railway in the picture...
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