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On morality and ethics
tycho
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 9:13:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Of late I have found myself struggling with misanthropy. The banality, and futility of most human actions, the folly of most human principles has been gnawing me from within, and I have been seething with rage without noticing it. Yesterday I almost went to war with a dear friend for a most trivial matter. He called me 'a book'.

I also caught myself loathing one of my students because I had come to discover that his aptitude wasn't as high as I had supposed it to be.

These and many other recent incidences have led me to think about what I deem to be good, or evil, and to my further dismay is the realization that very few of us know what's good or evil. Many say that good is what's prescribed by Scripture for example, but I have discovered that's a recipe for the worst forms of corruption and immorality. Others have championed for reason and relativism, but then have ended up either being paralyzed of action and or participators in anarchy and human debasement. For example, some will say that there's neither good or bad, only the person chooses which is which; but is that really meaningful, leave alone true?

Others will base goodness and evil on the opinions of significant others. Like being faithful to a spouse, but this has all the seeds of confusion and emasculation of the human spirit that it's easy to show that such principles are immoral and desperately wicked. Or that a government should base its legitimacy on majoritarian principles and have a say on what's moral on such basis.

So I'd like those who can and are willing to engage on this matter to join in me in thinking and creating an understanding on this matter.





Muriel
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 9:57:58 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
I cannot dispute the futility of having own reason as 'standard'.

It is true that the scripture may be a recipe for the worst forms of corruption.

I, as you struggled with your anomaly, have found myself being very harsh, yes, loathing even, one who I regard as not having sufficient aptitude who thought rape is prescribed in scripture. He read it and thought it was the way he thought. Thought.

But a recipe implies step by step, methodology, sequence. How have the dominoes fallen? Is it significant? I think it is. The one I loathed is proof (and I may have so failed as his teacher) that sequence makes all the difference in the discrimination of good from/and/or evil.

If man-god struggles with misanthropy surely is it not indicative of certain disabilities that negate the godliness and goodliness of man?

tycho
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:25:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
I cannot dispute the futility of having own reason as 'standard'.

It is true that the scripture may be a recipe for the worst forms of corruption.

I, as you struggled with your anomaly, have found myself being very harsh, yes, loathing even, one who I regard as not having sufficient aptitude who thought rape is prescribed in scripture. He read it and thought it was the way he thought. Thought.

But a recipe implies step by step, methodology, sequence. How have the dominoes fallen? Is it significant? I think it is. The one I loathed is proof (and I may have so failed as his teacher) that sequence makes all the difference in the discrimination of good from/and/or evil.

If man-god struggles with misanthropy surely is it not indicative of certain disabilities that negate the godliness and goodliness of man?



I feel, think, see that you're saying, showing, thinking about something 'important', but the complexity is overwhelming. For example, how does the human relate to and with the recipe of morality. How does this relation arise?

This probably opens up the discovery of the disabilities that characterize the human. Thinking of disabilities, then I see socialization as an attempt at covering up for the inability of humanity to understand itself.

I am experiencing the inability or is it disability? It's like trying to lift a tonne of metal on bench press.
Mtu Biz
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:21:14 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
del

rpt


Sola Scriptura


Mtu Biz
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:32:17 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
Consider the situation in the garden of Eden.

The knowledge of good and evil was their undoing.

and ours.

We always project meaning when we make observations... on the basis of good bad right wrong rich poor moral immoral intelligent stupid... etc

Children can observe from purity...without projecting meaning. True observation.

The account in Genesis says everything God created was Good.
Adam and eve accepted a knowledge that gave them ability to observe and acknowledge 'other than good'







Sola Scriptura


symbols
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:33:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
How or why?
Muriel
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 4:33:11 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Recipe implies a start, a beginning, step one. Hence sequence. A correct grasp of sequence not only gives the intended result but is also not overwhelming - the sequence becomes simple.

What was mentioned earlier, reason and relativism, have been shown to be an experiment whose results revealed a grievous misunderstanding of the human nature.

Indeed, following the correction of the incorrect sequence, the affliction of human minds, we will naturally, as the green blade turns to the sun, turn to the 'important'. Eden.
tycho
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:29:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Mtu Biz wrote:
Consider the situation in the garden of Eden.

The knowledge of good and evil was their undoing.

and ours.

We always project meaning when we make observations... on the basis of good bad right wrong rich poor moral immoral intelligent stupid... etc

Children can observe from purity...without projecting meaning. True observation.

The account in Genesis says everything God created was Good.
Adam and eve accepted a knowledge that gave them ability to observe and acknowledge 'other than good'



Could we say that being born is disadvantageous? To say that something was 'our undoing' is once again to commit ourselves to good and evil. It's the lot of humanity to know good and evil. And in this case then I can say the description in the book of Genesis is an initial and necessary condition of existence that defies prior conditions that may be said to be pre-political or 'state of nature'.

The child is innocent but it must grow out of innocence irrevocably. The human is thus left with a compromise between them and God such that they can only endeavor to avoid evil, and have punishment and suffering to remind them of God's goodness. This is the pattern of the 'Old testament'. But in the new humanity sees the possibility of rebirth, and perpetual sustainance of innocence. The 'New testament' is about a transformation and redefinition of humanity where ALL can be good.
tycho
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:40:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
Recipe implies a start, a beginning, step one. Hence sequence. A correct grasp of sequence not only gives the intended result but is also not overwhelming - the sequence becomes simple.

What was mentioned earlier, reason and relativism, have been shown to be an experiment whose results revealed a grievous misunderstanding of the human nature.

Indeed, following the correction of the incorrect sequence, the affliction of human minds, we will naturally, as the green blade turns to the sun, turn to the 'important'. Eden.


What's this recipe we're talking about? The recipe of life? Of experience?

The burden of life is heavy in the 'normal' sense. The child must feel evil acutely because the world can't respond without inflicting pain. Our method of understanding life is flawed hence the burden of life must be heavy. If one can get a sequence and method of living that lightens the burden?

The method is that of how to live like the lillies or the lotus flower.
tycho
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:16:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
There's a disaster awaiting all who fail to integrate 'art', 'music', and 'science'. Mythology is this integration; it's essential to the 'formula'.
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