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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!
Numbers 31:40 ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons
I'm asking what does the Lord do with 32 raped and ravished girls? Whatever answer one gives, it will serve personal interest. @tycho you're always a champion of truth, this time "personal interest" has taken over. Let us go to the logic and algebra stuff, leave this to @mukiri to digest. Personal interest is for ALL. Even God has it. If a person is saying something on other religions most people who do not belong to that religion they may think that this person is going to speak against his/her religion. For example: is supposed a Hindu is giving a talk on other religions, the non Hindus may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. If a Christian is giving a talk on other religions, the non-Christians may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. Similarly, I being a Muslim, when I talk on other religions, the non-Muslims may feel that I'm going to speak against their religion. Come AlphDoti - Let us speak.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!
Numbers 31:40 ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons
I'm asking what does the Lord do with 32 raped and ravished girls? Whatever answer one gives, it will serve personal interest. @tycho you're always a champion of truth, this time "personal interest" has taken over. Let us go to the logic and algebra stuff, leave this to @mukiri to digest. Personal interest is for ALL. Even God has it. If a person is saying something on other religions most people who do not belong to that religion they may think that this person is going to speak against his/her religion. For example: is supposed a Hindu is giving a talk on other religions, the non Hindus may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. If a Christian is giving a talk on other religions, the non-Christians may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. Similarly, I being a Muslim, when I talk on other religions, the non-Muslims may feel that I'm going to speak against their religion. Come AlphDoti - Let us speak. " And they saved for themselves 32,000 girls, who had not known a man intimately" (Numbers 31:35) (After raping them, they saved themselves 32,000 and out of that) AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!Numbers 31:40 " ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!
Numbers 31:40 ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons
I'm asking what does the Lord do with 32 raped and ravished girls? Whatever answer one gives, it will serve personal interest. @tycho you're always a champion of truth, this time "personal interest" has taken over. Let us go to the logic and algebra stuff, leave this to @mukiri to digest. Personal interest is for ALL. Even God has it. If a person is saying something on other religions most people who do not belong to that religion they may think that this person is going to speak against his/her religion. For example: is supposed a Hindu is giving a talk on other religions, the non Hindus may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. If a Christian is giving a talk on other religions, the non-Christians may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. Similarly, I being a Muslim, when I talk on other religions, the non-Muslims may feel that I'm going to speak against their religion. Come AlphDoti - Let us speak. " And they saved for themselves 32,000 girls, who had not known a man intimately" (Numbers 31:35) (After raping them, they saved themselves 32,000 and out of that) AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!Numbers 31:40 " ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons" Where does it say they were raped?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!
Numbers 31:40 ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons
I'm asking what does the Lord do with 32 raped and ravished girls? Whatever answer one gives, it will serve personal interest. @tycho you're always a champion of truth, this time "personal interest" has taken over. Let us go to the logic and algebra stuff, leave this to @mukiri to digest. Personal interest is for ALL. Even God has it. If a person is saying something on other religions most people who do not belong to that religion they may think that this person is going to speak against his/her religion. For example: is supposed a Hindu is giving a talk on other religions, the non Hindus may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. If a Christian is giving a talk on other religions, the non-Christians may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. Similarly, I being a Muslim, when I talk on other religions, the non-Muslims may feel that I'm going to speak against their religion. Come AlphDoti - Let us speak. " And they saved for themselves 32,000 girls, who had not known a man intimately" (Numbers 31:35) (After raping them, they saved themselves 32,000 and out of that) AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!Numbers 31:40 " ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons" Where does it say they were raped? @symbol, the words in brackets above are mine. Let me post the verses without the words in brackets. Bible Numbers 31:15-17: " And Moses said to them: "have you kept all the women alive? Now therefore kill every male among the little ones." Bible Numbers 31:35: " And they saved for themselves 32,000 Palestinian girls, who had not known a man intimately" This is the instruction given to Jewish soldiers in the field. Now when they see a young girl, how can you verify whether this woman has experienced sex or not? How do you verify? The soldier in the field, find these girls and he wants to verify whether a man has been through her or not. And if they discover that she has been already been used, 2nd hand, chop off her head. If not, keep them. After the operation they saved themselves 32,000 and out of that, the Lord Almighty, God Almighty must also have a pound of flesh. Question: how did the soldiers confirmed "those who had not known a man intimately"?Bible Numbers 31:40: " ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons" Question: what does the Lord do with 32 girls who have been confirmed to have not known any man intimately?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!
Numbers 31:40 ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons
I'm asking what does the Lord do with 32 raped and ravished girls? Whatever answer one gives, it will serve personal interest. @tycho you're always a champion of truth, this time "personal interest" has taken over. Let us go to the logic and algebra stuff, leave this to @mukiri to digest. Personal interest is for ALL. Even God has it. If a person is saying something on other religions most people who do not belong to that religion they may think that this person is going to speak against his/her religion. For example: is supposed a Hindu is giving a talk on other religions, the non Hindus may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. If a Christian is giving a talk on other religions, the non-Christians may feel that he's going to speak against my religion. Similarly, I being a Muslim, when I talk on other religions, the non-Muslims may feel that I'm going to speak against their religion. Come AlphDoti - Let us speak. " And they saved for themselves 32,000 girls, who had not known a man intimately" (Numbers 31:35) (After raping them, they saved themselves 32,000 and out of that) AND LORD ALMIGHTY TOLD THEM TO KEEP POUND OF FLESH FOR HIM!!Numbers 31:40 " ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons" Where does it say they were raped? @symbol, the words in brackets above are mine. Let me post the verses without the words in brackets. Bible Numbers 31:15-17: " And Moses said to them: "have you kept all the women alive? Now therefore kill every male among the little ones." Bible Numbers 31:35: " And they saved for themselves 32,000 Palestinian girls, who had not known a man intimately" This is the instruction given to Jewish soldiers in the field. Now when they see a young girl, how can you verify whether this woman has experienced sex or not? How do you verify? The soldier in the field, find these girls and he wants to verify whether a man has been through her or not. And if they discover that she has been already been used, 2nd hand, chop off her head. If not, keep them. After the operation they saved themselves 32,000 and out of that, the Lord Almighty, God Almighty must also have a pound of flesh. Question: how did the soldiers confirmed "those who had not known a man intimately"?Bible Numbers 31:40: " ... Of which Lord's tribute was 32 persons" Question: what does the Lord do with 32 girls who have been confirmed to have not known any man intimately? Yes they are your words. Numbers 31:18 wrote:But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:41 wrote:And Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:Mukiri wrote:Anyways, like most things Muslims and Christians differ on, it would be next to impossible to get a consensus here. @mukiri let us show you these things in your own Bible. Is the below verse in your Bible? Hagar was Abraham's wife! " ... and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE." GENESIS 16:3 What about the below, talking about KETURAH, the third wife of Abraham? " Then again Abraham took a WIFE, and her name was Keturah." GENESIS 25:1 Here Keturah being the WIFE of Abraham is being contradicted in the selfsame "Word of God" - i.e. 1 CHRONICLES 1:32, where Keturah is described as Abraham's CONCUBINE. Here is an extra contradiction in the Bible, unless " WIFE" and " CONCUBINE" are synonymous terms. She's explained the context. Genesis 16:2-3 wrote:And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. Genesis 16:5 wrote:And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands Genesis 25:1-2 wrote:Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all You're right @um sayala. Deut 12 mentions the place of pilgrimage along with some indications of what is included in its festival. Deut 12:5,11,14,18,and 21 The place is `the place which the Lord your God shall choose' Deut 12:21 states that if the place of pilgrimage is too far away, the sacrifice may be performed at home Deut 12:5 - God will choose place, makao yake, you'll face there. You must visit there. John 4:21 - Yesu akamjibu, "..wakati unakuja ambapo hamtamwabudu Baba katika mlima huu, wala huko Yerusalemu. Lakini saa yaja, tena ipo, ambapo wale waabuduo halisi, watamwabudu Baba katika roho na kweli. Watu wanaoabudu namna hii, ndio Baba anawatafuta. Matthew 23:37 - Yesu Aililia Yerusalemu "Ee Yerusalemu, mnaowaua manabii na kuwapiga mawe wale waliotumwa kwenu! ... Amebarikiwa Yeye ajaye kwa Jina la Bwana." Genesis 22:2 - house of God1 Chronicles 3:2 - When Solomon built, he called it ' House of God' Matt 21:12 what did Jesus call this house himself? He told them God said "House of God" Isaiah 2:2 - end of time, people will go to house of God will be put upright and all nations will go thereHowever, the law, or books of Moses, does not state when the time of pilgrimage is. Make it simple. Show the verses that advocate for pilgrimage and the location.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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guru267 wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:guru267 wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all Genesis 16:12 "Ishmael shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against his; he will always be in opposition to his brother."What God has decreed no man can change! Who knew in the end God would actually take the side of Ishmael!? Eish. There's a difference between an Arab and a Muslim. Stop quoting bible haphazardly. @JusBlazin please use some Wisdom! The Bible here is clearly talking about the religion of Ishamel vs the religions of Isaac! God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob. Psalms 83
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:guru267 wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:guru267 wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all Genesis 16:12 "Ishmael shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against his; he will always be in opposition to his brother."What God has decreed no man can change! Who knew in the end God would actually take the side of Ishmael!? Eish. There's a difference between an Arab and a Muslim. Stop quoting bible haphazardly. @JusBlazin please use some Wisdom! The Bible here is clearly talking about the religion of Ishamel vs the religions of Isaac! in your own words Muslims are Quote:wild asses of a men @guru are you misquoting the Bible? Genesis 16:12 (King James Version) " And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Between King James version, NI version, African version or Mama Mbogas version of the Bible how am I supposed to know which one is right?? You also seem exasperated by this dude... then he goes on to kiss your wild ass. guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:I'm almost afraid to ask you how old Abraham's son was... seeing as it is that you are posting kiddie pictures The Bible clearly states that it was Abrahams only son who God asked him to sacrifice... So that must have been before Isaac was born! And Isaac was born when Ishmael was like 14. The Bible does not give a direct answer to the question of Isaac’s age when he was about to be offered as a sacrifice by his father. We therefore must conclude that neither our understanding of the passage nor our grasp of the points that God wants us to learn depend on knowing his age. However, some linguistic data are available that shed some light on the matter by pointing us in the direction of Isaac being older than we normally think, i.e., 20+. In the first place, consider the details pertaining to chronology. Sarah gave birth to Isaac when she was 90 years old (Genesis 17:17). She would have been 92 or 93, 95 at most, when Isaac was weaned. She died at age 127 (Genesis 23:1)—when Isaac was 37 years old. Following Isaac’s birth, the events of the rest of Genesis chapter 21 (i.e., the driving out of Hagar and Ishmael, and the incident with Abimelech), as well as the events of chapter 22, all occurred during a 35-year period (approximately). Notice the expression “many days” in Genesis 21:34, as well as the phrase “after these things” in 22:1. These allusions would suggest that some time had elapsed prior to the offering of Isaac. In the second place, the term “lad” used to refer to Isaac (21:5,12) is a flexible Hebrew term that does not necessarily refer to what we ordinarily think of—i.e., a boy. Rather, the term encompasses a wide range of meanings—from a baby (e.g., Exodus 2:6; 2 Samuel 12:16) to a young man (e.g., Absalom in 2 Samuel 14:21; 18:5). It even can refer to “servant” or “attendant” (e.g., 2 Samuel 16:1) as well as soldier/leader (1 Kings 20:14,15,17,19). Look closely at the context of the Isaac passage in 22:5 where the servants that accompanied Abraham and Isaac are referred to as “young men” (22:3,5,19). The word “servants” is precisely the same term that is used in verses 5 and 12 to refer to Isaac (cf. Gesenius, 1979, p. 555; Wigram, 1980, p. 823; Harris, et al., 1980, 2:585-586). Were the servants that accompanied Abraham 5 to 7 year olds? Or were they older? Third, Isaac was given the task of carrying the wood for the impending sacrifice (22:6). There would have been enough wood to consume a human body when set on fire. Could a 5- to 7-year-old child carry such a burden? It points to Isaac being a young man—not a young boy. All your explanations have no meaning when the Bible contradicts itself when it calls Isaac Abraham's only son... Its like its trying to hide something! The only time Abraham had one son was when he had Ishmael before Isaac was born! Genesis 22:1-2 wrote:And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:Is there any knowledgeable Christian or Jew who can explain to us why the first King of the Jews Saul lost his throne to David?? An admission of ignorance? Didn't know you were this humble, to ask for help. Not to worry, when the student(you) is ready, the teacher appears So instead of a lot of blah blah blah.... do you have a concrete answer? Do you? I love you Christians and how you hide from anything inconvenient! None of you has any guts! King Saul was commanded by Yahweh to Slaughter a whole town after taking it over and when he didn't Yahweh took his throne! How hard was that!? Must be hard for many of you to swallow... I totally understand because that level of violence is nowhere in the Quran! The Quran's Verses of Violence
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:guru267 wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:guru267 wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all Genesis 16:12 "Ishmael shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against his; he will always be in opposition to his brother."What God has decreed no man can change! Who knew in the end God would actually take the side of Ishmael!? Eish. There's a difference between an Arab and a Muslim. Stop quoting bible haphazardly. @JusBlazin please use some Wisdom! The Bible here is clearly talking about the religion of Ishamel vs the religions of Isaac! in your own words Muslims are Quote:wild asses of a men @guru are you misquoting the Bible? Genesis 16:12 (King James Version) " And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Between King James version, NI version, African version or Mama Mbogas version of the Bible how am I supposed to know which one is right?? You also seem exasperated by this dude... then he goes on to kiss your wild ass. guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:I'm almost afraid to ask you how old Abraham's son was... seeing as it is that you are posting kiddie pictures The Bible clearly states that it was Abrahams only son who God asked him to sacrifice... So that must have been before Isaac was born! And Isaac was born when Ishmael was like 14. The Bible does not give a direct answer to the question of Isaac’s age when he was about to be offered as a sacrifice by his father. We therefore must conclude that neither our understanding of the passage nor our grasp of the points that God wants us to learn depend on knowing his age. However, some linguistic data are available that shed some light on the matter by pointing us in the direction of Isaac being older than we normally think, i.e., 20+. In the first place, consider the details pertaining to chronology. Sarah gave birth to Isaac when she was 90 years old (Genesis 17:17). She would have been 92 or 93, 95 at most, when Isaac was weaned. She died at age 127 (Genesis 23:1)—when Isaac was 37 years old. Following Isaac’s birth, the events of the rest of Genesis chapter 21 (i.e., the driving out of Hagar and Ishmael, and the incident with Abimelech), as well as the events of chapter 22, all occurred during a 35-year period (approximately). Notice the expression “many days” in Genesis 21:34, as well as the phrase “after these things” in 22:1. These allusions would suggest that some time had elapsed prior to the offering of Isaac. In the second place, the term “lad” used to refer to Isaac (21:5,12) is a flexible Hebrew term that does not necessarily refer to what we ordinarily think of—i.e., a boy. Rather, the term encompasses a wide range of meanings—from a baby (e.g., Exodus 2:6; 2 Samuel 12:16) to a young man (e.g., Absalom in 2 Samuel 14:21; 18:5). It even can refer to “servant” or “attendant” (e.g., 2 Samuel 16:1) as well as soldier/leader (1 Kings 20:14,15,17,19). Look closely at the context of the Isaac passage in 22:5 where the servants that accompanied Abraham and Isaac are referred to as “young men” (22:3,5,19). The word “servants” is precisely the same term that is used in verses 5 and 12 to refer to Isaac (cf. Gesenius, 1979, p. 555; Wigram, 1980, p. 823; Harris, et al., 1980, 2:585-586). Were the servants that accompanied Abraham 5 to 7 year olds? Or were they older? Third, Isaac was given the task of carrying the wood for the impending sacrifice (22:6). There would have been enough wood to consume a human body when set on fire. Could a 5- to 7-year-old child carry such a burden? It points to Isaac being a young man—not a young boy. All your explanations have no meaning when the Bible contradicts itself when it calls Isaac Abraham's only son... Its like its trying to hide something! The only time Abraham had one son was when he had Ishmael before Isaac was born! Genesis 22:1-2 wrote:And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Contradiction galore! Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:Is there any knowledgeable Christian or Jew who can explain to us why the first King of the Jews Saul lost his throne to David?? An admission of ignorance? Didn't know you were this humble, to ask for help. Not to worry, when the student(you) is ready, the teacher appears So instead of a lot of blah blah blah.... do you have a concrete answer? Do you? I love you Christians and how you hide from anything inconvenient! None of you has any guts! King Saul was commanded by Yahweh to Slaughter a whole town after taking it over and when he didn't Yahweh took his throne! How hard was that!? Must be hard for many of you to swallow... I totally understand because that level of violence is nowhere in the Quran! The Quran's Verses of Violence The words of Yahweh! The level of violence here compares nothing to the Bible.. The same Bible that talks of Slaughtering everything that breathes and raping women... Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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guru267 wrote:symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:guru267 wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:guru267 wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all Genesis 16:12 "Ishmael shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against his; he will always be in opposition to his brother."What God has decreed no man can change! Who knew in the end God would actually take the side of Ishmael!? Eish. There's a difference between an Arab and a Muslim. Stop quoting bible haphazardly. @JusBlazin please use some Wisdom! The Bible here is clearly talking about the religion of Ishamel vs the religions of Isaac! in your own words Muslims are Quote:wild asses of a men @guru are you misquoting the Bible? Genesis 16:12 (King James Version) " And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Between King James version, NI version, African version or Mama Mbogas version of the Bible how am I supposed to know which one is right?? You also seem exasperated by this dude... then he goes on to kiss your wild ass. guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:I'm almost afraid to ask you how old Abraham's son was... seeing as it is that you are posting kiddie pictures The Bible clearly states that it was Abrahams only son who God asked him to sacrifice... So that must have been before Isaac was born! And Isaac was born when Ishmael was like 14. The Bible does not give a direct answer to the question of Isaac’s age when he was about to be offered as a sacrifice by his father. We therefore must conclude that neither our understanding of the passage nor our grasp of the points that God wants us to learn depend on knowing his age. However, some linguistic data are available that shed some light on the matter by pointing us in the direction of Isaac being older than we normally think, i.e., 20+. In the first place, consider the details pertaining to chronology. Sarah gave birth to Isaac when she was 90 years old (Genesis 17:17). She would have been 92 or 93, 95 at most, when Isaac was weaned. She died at age 127 (Genesis 23:1)—when Isaac was 37 years old. Following Isaac’s birth, the events of the rest of Genesis chapter 21 (i.e., the driving out of Hagar and Ishmael, and the incident with Abimelech), as well as the events of chapter 22, all occurred during a 35-year period (approximately). Notice the expression “many days” in Genesis 21:34, as well as the phrase “after these things” in 22:1. These allusions would suggest that some time had elapsed prior to the offering of Isaac. In the second place, the term “lad” used to refer to Isaac (21:5,12) is a flexible Hebrew term that does not necessarily refer to what we ordinarily think of—i.e., a boy. Rather, the term encompasses a wide range of meanings—from a baby (e.g., Exodus 2:6; 2 Samuel 12:16) to a young man (e.g., Absalom in 2 Samuel 14:21; 18:5). It even can refer to “servant” or “attendant” (e.g., 2 Samuel 16:1) as well as soldier/leader (1 Kings 20:14,15,17,19). Look closely at the context of the Isaac passage in 22:5 where the servants that accompanied Abraham and Isaac are referred to as “young men” (22:3,5,19). The word “servants” is precisely the same term that is used in verses 5 and 12 to refer to Isaac (cf. Gesenius, 1979, p. 555; Wigram, 1980, p. 823; Harris, et al., 1980, 2:585-586). Were the servants that accompanied Abraham 5 to 7 year olds? Or were they older? Third, Isaac was given the task of carrying the wood for the impending sacrifice (22:6). There would have been enough wood to consume a human body when set on fire. Could a 5- to 7-year-old child carry such a burden? It points to Isaac being a young man—not a young boy. All your explanations have no meaning when the Bible contradicts itself when it calls Isaac Abraham's only son... Its like its trying to hide something! The only time Abraham had one son was when he had Ishmael before Isaac was born! Genesis 22:1-2 wrote:And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Contradiction galore! Comprehension
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:guru267 wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:guru267 wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all Genesis 16:12 "Ishmael shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against his; he will always be in opposition to his brother."What God has decreed no man can change! Who knew in the end God would actually take the side of Ishmael!? Eish. There's a difference between an Arab and a Muslim. Stop quoting bible haphazardly. @JusBlazin please use some Wisdom! The Bible here is clearly talking about the religion of Ishamel vs the religions of Isaac! in your own words Muslims are Quote:wild asses of a men @guru are you misquoting the Bible? Genesis 16:12 (King James Version) " And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Between King James version, NI version, African version or Mama Mbogas version of the Bible how am I supposed to know which one is right?? You also seem exasperated by this dude... then he goes on to kiss your wild ass. guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:I'm almost afraid to ask you how old Abraham's son was... seeing as it is that you are posting kiddie pictures The Bible clearly states that it was Abrahams only son who God asked him to sacrifice... So that must have been before Isaac was born! And Isaac was born when Ishmael was like 14. The Bible does not give a direct answer to the question of Isaac’s age when he was about to be offered as a sacrifice by his father. We therefore must conclude that neither our understanding of the passage nor our grasp of the points that God wants us to learn depend on knowing his age. However, some linguistic data are available that shed some light on the matter by pointing us in the direction of Isaac being older than we normally think, i.e., 20+. In the first place, consider the details pertaining to chronology. Sarah gave birth to Isaac when she was 90 years old (Genesis 17:17). She would have been 92 or 93, 95 at most, when Isaac was weaned. She died at age 127 (Genesis 23:1)—when Isaac was 37 years old. Following Isaac’s birth, the events of the rest of Genesis chapter 21 (i.e., the driving out of Hagar and Ishmael, and the incident with Abimelech), as well as the events of chapter 22, all occurred during a 35-year period (approximately). Notice the expression “many days” in Genesis 21:34, as well as the phrase “after these things” in 22:1. These allusions would suggest that some time had elapsed prior to the offering of Isaac. In the second place, the term “lad” used to refer to Isaac (21:5,12) is a flexible Hebrew term that does not necessarily refer to what we ordinarily think of—i.e., a boy. Rather, the term encompasses a wide range of meanings—from a baby (e.g., Exodus 2:6; 2 Samuel 12:16) to a young man (e.g., Absalom in 2 Samuel 14:21; 18:5). It even can refer to “servant” or “attendant” (e.g., 2 Samuel 16:1) as well as soldier/leader (1 Kings 20:14,15,17,19). Look closely at the context of the Isaac passage in 22:5 where the servants that accompanied Abraham and Isaac are referred to as “young men” (22:3,5,19). The word “servants” is precisely the same term that is used in verses 5 and 12 to refer to Isaac (cf. Gesenius, 1979, p. 555; Wigram, 1980, p. 823; Harris, et al., 1980, 2:585-586). Were the servants that accompanied Abraham 5 to 7 year olds? Or were they older? Third, Isaac was given the task of carrying the wood for the impending sacrifice (22:6). There would have been enough wood to consume a human body when set on fire. Could a 5- to 7-year-old child carry such a burden? It points to Isaac being a young man—not a young boy. All your explanations have no meaning when the Bible contradicts itself when it calls Isaac Abraham's only son... Its like its trying to hide something! The only time Abraham had one son was when he had Ishmael before Isaac was born! Genesis 22:1-2 wrote:And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Contradiction galore! Comprehension You comprehend that when Isaac was born Abraham had two sons... The only time in Abraham's life when he had an only son was when he had Ishmael Stop being blind and open your eyes to the many errors in the Bible! Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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guru267 wrote:symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:guru267 wrote:AlphDoti wrote:masukuma wrote:guru267 wrote:Jus Blazin wrote:guru267 wrote:Um Sayala wrote:Xtianity and Islam are very related, actually almost two sides of the same coin. wonder why there's always war between them. Anyway Happy Eid Adha. Peace be upon u all Genesis 16:12 "Ishmael shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against his; he will always be in opposition to his brother."What God has decreed no man can change! Who knew in the end God would actually take the side of Ishmael!? Eish. There's a difference between an Arab and a Muslim. Stop quoting bible haphazardly. @JusBlazin please use some Wisdom! The Bible here is clearly talking about the religion of Ishamel vs the religions of Isaac! in your own words Muslims are Quote:wild asses of a men @guru are you misquoting the Bible? Genesis 16:12 (King James Version) " And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Between King James version, NI version, African version or Mama Mbogas version of the Bible how am I supposed to know which one is right?? You also seem exasperated by this dude... then he goes on to kiss your wild ass. guru267 wrote:Mukiri wrote:I'm almost afraid to ask you how old Abraham's son was... seeing as it is that you are posting kiddie pictures The Bible clearly states that it was Abrahams only son who God asked him to sacrifice... So that must have been before Isaac was born! And Isaac was born when Ishmael was like 14. The Bible does not give a direct answer to the question of Isaac’s age when he was about to be offered as a sacrifice by his father. We therefore must conclude that neither our understanding of the passage nor our grasp of the points that God wants us to learn depend on knowing his age. However, some linguistic data are available that shed some light on the matter by pointing us in the direction of Isaac being older than we normally think, i.e., 20+. In the first place, consider the details pertaining to chronology. Sarah gave birth to Isaac when she was 90 years old (Genesis 17:17). She would have been 92 or 93, 95 at most, when Isaac was weaned. She died at age 127 (Genesis 23:1)—when Isaac was 37 years old. Following Isaac’s birth, the events of the rest of Genesis chapter 21 (i.e., the driving out of Hagar and Ishmael, and the incident with Abimelech), as well as the events of chapter 22, all occurred during a 35-year period (approximately). Notice the expression “many days” in Genesis 21:34, as well as the phrase “after these things” in 22:1. These allusions would suggest that some time had elapsed prior to the offering of Isaac. In the second place, the term “lad” used to refer to Isaac (21:5,12) is a flexible Hebrew term that does not necessarily refer to what we ordinarily think of—i.e., a boy. Rather, the term encompasses a wide range of meanings—from a baby (e.g., Exodus 2:6; 2 Samuel 12:16) to a young man (e.g., Absalom in 2 Samuel 14:21; 18:5). It even can refer to “servant” or “attendant” (e.g., 2 Samuel 16:1) as well as soldier/leader (1 Kings 20:14,15,17,19). Look closely at the context of the Isaac passage in 22:5 where the servants that accompanied Abraham and Isaac are referred to as “young men” (22:3,5,19). The word “servants” is precisely the same term that is used in verses 5 and 12 to refer to Isaac (cf. Gesenius, 1979, p. 555; Wigram, 1980, p. 823; Harris, et al., 1980, 2:585-586). Were the servants that accompanied Abraham 5 to 7 year olds? Or were they older? Third, Isaac was given the task of carrying the wood for the impending sacrifice (22:6). There would have been enough wood to consume a human body when set on fire. Could a 5- to 7-year-old child carry such a burden? It points to Isaac being a young man—not a young boy. All your explanations have no meaning when the Bible contradicts itself when it calls Isaac Abraham's only son... Its like its trying to hide something! The only time Abraham had one son was when he had Ishmael before Isaac was born! Genesis 22:1-2 wrote:And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Contradiction galore! Comprehension You comprehend that when Isaac was born Abraham had two sons... The only time in Abraham's life when he had an only son was when he had Ishmael Stop being blind and open your eyes to the many errors in the Bible! Genesis 21
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:symbols wrote:guru267 wrote:... All your explanations have no meaning when the Bible contradicts itself when it calls Isaac Abraham's only son... Its like its trying to hide something! The only time Abraham had one son was when he had Ishmael before Isaac was born! Genesis 22:1-2 wrote:And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Contradiction galore! Comprehension You comprehend that when Isaac was born Abraham had two sons... The only time in Abraham's life when he had an only son was when he had Ishmael Stop being blind and open your eyes to the many errors in the Bible! Genesis 21 Genesis 21 indeed. First read the below, I'm following it with what I hope you can be able to read. Conversation between Abraham and IsmaelQuran 37:101 - Abraham said: "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allah), so look what you think!" He said: "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Insha' Allah (if Allah will), you shall find me of As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)." Same talk, but to different personGenesis 22:1 Kisha Mungu akamwambia Abraham, “Umchukue mwanao, mwana wako wa pekee, Isaki umpendaye, uende katika nchi ya Moria. Mtoe huko kama sadaka ya kuteketezwa juu ya mlima mmojwapo nitakaokuambia."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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So we are going to analyze Abraham issue. Starting from a bit back genesis 12. So big question is which book is telling the truth? If you're looking for truth, you need to look closely.
Ecclesiastes 7:27 - Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account: Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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LET US START
Abraham was promised blessings of big Nation: Genesis 12:1 - Now the Lord had said unto Abram, "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee"
While Abraham was thinking about who will take after him, to inherit him. Genesis 15:1 - After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. Genesis 15:2 - And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house Genesis 15:4 - And, behold, the Lord said, "...out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir"
Hagar became Abraham's wife, a gift from Pharaoh GENESIS 16:3 - "... and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE."
Who came from the bowels of Abraham? Nani alitoka kiunoni mwa Abraham? Abraham alimwingilia Hagar and she conceived Ismael. Genesis 16:2 - And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid Hagar; it may be that I may obtain children by her. Genesis 16:3 - And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife Genesis 16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived
Because of jealousy between the two women, Hagar ran away: Genesis 16:7 - Ndipo Sarai akamtesa Hagari hivyo akamtoroka. Malaika wa BWANA akamkuta Hagari karibu na chemchemi huko jangwani, ilikuwa chemchemi ile iliyokuwa kando ya barabara iendayo Shuri. Malaika akamwambia, ‘‘Hagari, mtumishi wa Sarai, umetokea wapi na unakwenda wapi?’’ Akamjibu, "Ninamkimbia bibi yangu Sarai."
Angel told Hagar she'll be blessed with many children and made big nation - Ndipo malaika wa BWANA akamwambia, "Rudi kwa bibi yako ukajishushe chini yake." Malaika akaendelea akasema, "Nitazidisha wazao wako kwamba watakuwa wengi mno wasiohesabika."
CONTINUATION WILL FOLLOW...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Continue...
You can also include the two sons that Abraham had before Isaac was born.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:Continue...
You can also include the two sons that Abraham had before Isaac was born. Hahahaha you're funny guy. Ati Abraham had other two sons before Isaac was born? So you already realized the issue ah! So why would Bible call Isaac ONLY SON Anyway, let me continueHow long did Ismael stayed with his father as the only child?Genesis 17:24 - Abrahamu was circumcised at age of 90 together with his son Ishmaeli. Genesis 17:25 - Ishmael was 13 years old when both were circumcised Genesis 17:27 - God commanded Abraham that every male must be circumcised from then on. Then angels came to Abraham to deliver good news of another sonGenesis 18:9 - And he said, ...and lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him Genesis 18:12 - Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my husband being old also? Genesis 18:12 - angel said "Is any thing too hard for the Lord?" It is not Abraham who made Sarah pregnant, but God enabled Sarah to conceiveGenesis 21:1 - And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken. Genesis 21:2 - Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. Genesis 21:3 - Abraham called the name of his son, Isaac. Ibrahim was 100 years old when Isaac was born. Ishmael was 14 years when Isaac was born.So, Isaac could not have been the ONLY CHILD, but the second one. I WILL CONTINUE...
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