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Equity Bank unveils its MVNO strategy
Rahatupu
#321 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:21:35 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
This thin sim biashara will not be a walk in the park for Equity. I doubt they will make any money for the first 2 yrs. Kenyans are peculiar people and we know that price alone is not a major motivator for people to jump ship especially when it comes to telecoms. In addition, Safcom is able to counter any price reductions likely to affect its market. In short Kenyans will benefit from lower prices but it remains to be seen whether this will translate to significant profit for Equity.


I don't share your pessimism. Here is why:

1. Equity already has over 9M members. That is a massive base from which to start.

2. JM has announced that they will be giving the thin SIM to any Kenyan, not just 'Meba' - his target is the 27M Kenyans with a phone.

3. Money transfer at 25 bob, max; plus all the benefits of electronic banking.

4. And don't forget that what Equity has is basically a license to do telkom, not just banking. (The Safaricom strategy has been turned against Safaricom)

5. The nationalism card - Equity is our bank versus, Safaricom is foreign owned/led....etc

What does Safaricom have to counter all this?


I am not being pessimistic, just realistic.
A market is divided into segments. Out of the 9 million Equity accounts, probably only about 5 million use Equity as their primary bank, another 2 million use it for long term savings (kwa sababu by the time one has lined up at the branches to access the money, you must really need it) and another 1 million may be dormant accounts (like mine).
The Equity customer probably deals in small many transactions per month. This is the customer that Safaricom has already targeted by reducing Mpesa charges to probably approximate those of Equity. I doubt non Equity bank customers will suddenly en-mass join Equity bank just because there is a new sim card with slightly lower "mpesa" charges. The product has to offer more than just price.

The price wars of yester years may have affected Safaricom profits but, Safaricom still made profits. Their competitors still made losses despite the price wars.

I still think thin sim will not be a walk in the Park for Equity. It may not lead to massive profits as widely expected.


You make good points but the way you want to interpret them, it seems to me, is upside down.

1. With MVNO Equity stands to eat into every product that Safaricom offers - money transfer, data and voice.

2. Safaricom does not threaten Equity's core product - banking - and therefore can not play the kind of offensive game they did on Airtel.

3. To beat M-Pesa Equity is offering a cost of 25 shillings maximum on money transfer, compare this with 300 plus that M-pesa charges you. And you don't even have to change your Phone/M-pesa number to use the thin SIM, only the prefix.

4. For the 9M account holders the cost of most MVNO banking services, money transfer included, is ZERO. I bet with this kind of deal even you will reconsider your dormant account.

5. All this before you have even factored in the operating efficiencies and market penetration that Equity will reap from moving most of their customers to a virtual banking platform. MVNO is a game changer and Equity should make money from it from the get go.

Which ever way you look at it, Safaricom/M-Pesa has met its Waterloo.

If you don't agree, show me how they are going to respond.

Safaricom should have applied for a banking license the day they pissed Mwangi off.
.

I agree, it seems its too late in the day for them to get into banking. Spinning off M-pesa would leave Safaricom very vulnerable, they way to go would be to match Equity on charges and ring fence their agents. They already have a better distribution/outlet outlay than Equity so have a wider reach.
murchr
#322 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:50:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Rahatupu wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
This thin sim biashara will not be a walk in the park for Equity. I doubt they will make any money for the first 2 yrs. Kenyans are peculiar people and we know that price alone is not a major motivator for people to jump ship especially when it comes to telecoms. In addition, Safcom is able to counter any price reductions likely to affect its market. In short Kenyans will benefit from lower prices but it remains to be seen whether this will translate to significant profit for Equity.


I don't share your pessimism. Here is why:

1. Equity already has over 9M members. That is a massive base from which to start.

2. JM has announced that they will be giving the thin SIM to any Kenyan, not just 'Meba' - his target is the 27M Kenyans with a phone.

3. Money transfer at 25 bob, max; plus all the benefits of electronic banking.

4. And don't forget that what Equity has is basically a license to do telkom, not just banking. (The Safaricom strategy has been turned against Safaricom)

5. The nationalism card - Equity is our bank versus, Safaricom is foreign owned/led....etc

What does Safaricom have to counter all this?


I am not being pessimistic, just realistic.
A market is divided into segments. Out of the 9 million Equity accounts, probably only about 5 million use Equity as their primary bank, another 2 million use it for long term savings (kwa sababu by the time one has lined up at the branches to access the money, you must really need it) and another 1 million may be dormant accounts (like mine).
The Equity customer probably deals in small many transactions per month. This is the customer that Safaricom has already targeted by reducing Mpesa charges to probably approximate those of Equity. I doubt non Equity bank customers will suddenly en-mass join Equity bank just because there is a new sim card with slightly lower "mpesa" charges. The product has to offer more than just price.

The price wars of yester years may have affected Safaricom profits but, Safaricom still made profits. Their competitors still made losses despite the price wars.

I still think thin sim will not be a walk in the Park for Equity. It may not lead to massive profits as widely expected.


You make good points but the way you want to interpret them, it seems to me, is upside down.

1. With MVNO Equity stands to eat into every product that Safaricom offers - money transfer, data and voice.

2. Safaricom does not threaten Equity's core product - banking - and therefore can not play the kind of offensive game they did on Airtel.

3. To beat M-Pesa Equity is offering a cost of 25 shillings maximum on money transfer, compare this with 300 plus that M-pesa charges you. And you don't even have to change your Phone/M-pesa number to use the thin SIM, only the prefix.

4. For the 9M account holders the cost of most MVNO banking services, money transfer included, is ZERO. I bet with this kind of deal even you will reconsider your dormant account.

5. All this before you have even factored in the operating efficiencies and market penetration that Equity will reap from moving most of their customers to a virtual banking platform. MVNO is a game changer and Equity should make money from it from the get go.

Which ever way you look at it, Safaricom/M-Pesa has met its Waterloo.

If you don't agree, show me how they are going to respond.

Safaricom should have applied for a banking license the day they pissed Mwangi off.
.

I agree, it seems its too late in the day for them to get into banking. Spinning off M-pesa would leave Safaricom very vulnerable, they way to go would be to match Equity on charges and ring fence their agents. They already have a better distribution/outlet outlay than Equity so have a wider reach.


Safcom doesnt want to be called a bank at all....no way
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Wakanyugi
#323 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 3:07:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
murchr wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
This thin sim biashara will not be a walk in the park for Equity. I doubt they will make any money for the first 2 yrs. Kenyans are peculiar people and we know that price alone is not a major motivator for people to jump ship especially when it comes to telecoms. In addition, Safcom is able to counter any price reductions likely to affect its market. In short Kenyans will benefit from lower prices but it remains to be seen whether this will translate to significant profit for Equity.


I don't share your pessimism. Here is why:

1. Equity already has over 9M members. That is a massive base from which to start.

2. JM has announced that they will be giving the thin SIM to any Kenyan, not just 'Meba' - his target is the 27M Kenyans with a phone.

3. Money transfer at 25 bob, max; plus all the benefits of electronic banking.

4. And don't forget that what Equity has is basically a license to do telkom, not just banking. (The Safaricom strategy has been turned against Safaricom)

5. The nationalism card - Equity is our bank versus, Safaricom is foreign owned/led....etc

What does Safaricom have to counter all this?


I am not being pessimistic, just realistic.
A market is divided into segments. Out of the 9 million Equity accounts, probably only about 5 million use Equity as their primary bank, another 2 million use it for long term savings (kwa sababu by the time one has lined up at the branches to access the money, you must really need it) and another 1 million may be dormant accounts (like mine).
The Equity customer probably deals in small many transactions per month. This is the customer that Safaricom has already targeted by reducing Mpesa charges to probably approximate those of Equity. I doubt non Equity bank customers will suddenly en-mass join Equity bank just because there is a new sim card with slightly lower "mpesa" charges. The product has to offer more than just price.

The price wars of yester years may have affected Safaricom profits but, Safaricom still made profits. Their competitors still made losses despite the price wars.

I still think thin sim will not be a walk in the Park for Equity. It may not lead to massive profits as widely expected.


You make good points but the way you want to interpret them, it seems to me, is upside down.

1. With MVNO Equity stands to eat into every product that Safaricom offers - money transfer, data and voice.

2. Safaricom does not threaten Equity's core product - banking - and therefore can not play the kind of offensive game they did on Airtel.

3. To beat M-Pesa Equity is offering a cost of 25 shillings maximum on money transfer, compare this with 300 plus that M-pesa charges you. And you don't even have to change your Phone/M-pesa number to use the thin SIM, only the prefix.

4. For the 9M account holders the cost of most MVNO banking services, money transfer included, is ZERO. I bet with this kind of deal even you will reconsider your dormant account.

5. All this before you have even factored in the operating efficiencies and market penetration that Equity will reap from moving most of their customers to a virtual banking platform. MVNO is a game changer and Equity should make money from it from the get go.

Which ever way you look at it, Safaricom/M-Pesa has met its Waterloo.

If you don't agree, show me how they are going to respond.

Safaricom should have applied for a banking license the day they pissed Mwangi off.
.

I agree, it seems its too late in the day for them to get into banking. Spinning off M-pesa would leave Safaricom very vulnerable, they way to go would be to match Equity on charges and ring fence their agents. They already have a better distribution/outlet outlay than Equity so have a wider reach.


Safcom doesnt want to be called a bank at all....no way


Then they are in a big pickle, aren't they?

As for ring fencing their agents, that horse already bolted when CCK forced the end of the exclusive Agency model. Safaricom is right now in the process of reviewing contracts to allow their agents to work with anybody.

And they can't compete on price, not with the pressure from agents to be allowed a bigger commission (remember that money transfer through Equity MVNO will not require an agent, so long as you have an Equity account).

If I was Safaricom I would walk away from this fight, start looking across the borders for growth opportunities. Granted the deal with their mother company may not allow competition on voice and data in most markets.

But, with the experience they have now, they could easily export the M-Pesa model to countries like South Sudan, Uganda and Central Africa and hope to mint some coins, before JM comes calling and takes their lunch again.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
quicksand
#324 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 3:59:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
This thin sim biashara will not be a walk in the park for Equity. I doubt they will make any money for the first 2 yrs. Kenyans are peculiar people and we know that price alone is not a major motivator for people to jump ship especially when it comes to telecoms. In addition, Safcom is able to counter any price reductions likely to affect its market. In short Kenyans will benefit from lower prices but it remains to be seen whether this will translate to significant profit for Equity.


I don't share your pessimism. Here is why:

1. Equity already has over 9M members. That is a massive base from which to start.

2. JM has announced that they will be giving the thin SIM to any Kenyan, not just 'Meba' - his target is the 27M Kenyans with a phone.

3. Money transfer at 25 bob, max; plus all the benefits of electronic banking.

4. And don't forget that what Equity has is basically a license to do telkom, not just banking. (The Safaricom strategy has been turned against Safaricom)

5. The nationalism card - Equity is our bank versus, Safaricom is foreign owned/led....etc

What does Safaricom have to counter all this?

I think the tomboy is right. Your optimism is bubbly. JM is not an idiot and the product will succeed, may be even thrive, but Mpesa didnt become a juggernaut overnight. It is where it is cause of huge investment, technology and brilliant strategy.
Many Kenyans are annoyed with the current predatory pricing of Mpesa, but just cause guys are pissed doesn't give JM and the thin sim the deep technological depth required to run it without a hitch. Mpesa is seven years old now, yet you still get outages, slow speeds and deadbeat agents who cant manage float (you try six or seven agents before one where you are able to deposit).
All these things Equity will face and have to overcome. Safaricom has more serious technology than Equity/Airtel combo, and while Equity is tackling teething problems, Mpesa will not be sitting pretty -it will be a brutal fight in which Mpesa has thrown the first punch even before JM got the product out of the door.
Things will get interesting from a technological side -which for me is more interesting as a techie. My feeling is Equity is already having problems, otherwise they should have launched widely by now.
tom_boy
#325 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:14:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
1. With MVNO Equity stands to eat into every product that Safaricom offers - money transfer, data and voice.
How is this possible. If Equity to Equity transfers are free, the bank will stand to loose money as people will not use the payable services. If transfer is from Equity to another provider, interconnection charges will apply so no way it will be free.

2. Safaricom does not threaten Equity's core product - banking - and therefore can not play the kind of offensive game they did on Airtel.
Safaricom is not interested in Banking per se. They want the money transfer business. For Equity to access non Equity money transfer business, charges will apply therefore not much advantage there.

3. To beat M-Pesa Equity is offering a cost of 25 shillings maximum on money transfer, compare this with 300 plus that M-pesa charges you. And you don't even have to change your Phone/M-pesa number to use the thin SIM, only the prefix.
The 300 charge is a maximum amount. For the amounts that Equity members usually transfer, I am sure Safaricom can match the pricing.

4. For the 9M account holders the cost of most MVNO banking services, money transfer included, is ZERO. I bet with this kind of deal even you will reconsider your dormant account.
Here, Equity will have shot themselves in the foot. People will opt to use this no cost services at the cost of using payable cash withdrawals and transfers at the bank. They may recoup this though by laying off staff and achieving better efficiencies

5. All this before you have even factored in the operating efficiencies and market penetration that Equity will reap from moving most of their customers to a virtual banking platform. MVNO is a game changer and Equity should make money from it from the get go.
Safaricom has way more experience in the telco market and money transfer market. Equity will be hill climbing and will soon discover free does not sell in Kenya. Ask Yu mobile

MVNO is good but I think it will not make that much money for equity, especially in Kenya. In other markets without a well established mobile money transfer option, Equity will run away with the cake, that is for sure. The Kenyan Market will be hard to crack though.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Wakanyugi
#326 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:35:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
quicksand wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
This thin sim biashara will not be a walk in the park for Equity. I doubt they will make any money for the first 2 yrs. Kenyans are peculiar people and we know that price alone is not a major motivator for people to jump ship especially when it comes to telecoms. In addition, Safcom is able to counter any price reductions likely to affect its market. In short Kenyans will benefit from lower prices but it remains to be seen whether this will translate to significant profit for Equity.


I don't share your pessimism. Here is why:

1. Equity already has over 9M members. That is a massive base from which to start.

2. JM has announced that they will be giving the thin SIM to any Kenyan, not just 'Meba' - his target is the 27M Kenyans with a phone.

3. Money transfer at 25 bob, max; plus all the benefits of electronic banking.

4. And don't forget that what Equity has is basically a license to do telkom, not just banking. (The Safaricom strategy has been turned against Safaricom)

5. The nationalism card - Equity is our bank versus, Safaricom is foreign owned/led....etc

What does Safaricom have to counter all this?

I think the tomboy is right. Your optimism is bubbly. JM is not an idiot and the product will succeed, may be even thrive, but Mpesa didnt become a juggernaut overnight. It is where it is cause of huge investment, technology and brilliant strategy.
Many Kenyans are annoyed with the current predatory pricing of Mpesa, but just cause guys are pissed doesn't give JM and the thin sim the deep technological depth required to run it without a hitch. Mpesa is seven years old now, yet you still get outages, slow speeds and deadbeat agents who cant manage float (you try six or seven agents before one where you are able to deposit).
All these things Equity will face and have to overcome. Safaricom has more serious technology than Equity/Airtel combo, and while Equity is tackling teething problems, Mpesa will not be sitting pretty -it will be a brutal fight in which Mpesa has thrown the first punch even before JM got the product out of the door.
Things will get interesting from a technological side -which for me is more interesting as a techie. My feeling is Equity is already having problems, otherwise they should have launched widely by now.


Let us wait and see.

I did not take this MVNO technology seriously until I saw Safaricom's reaction - it takes some serious threat to make this behemoth almost pee their pants as they have been doing recently.

Then I listened to Mwangi explain his strategy a number of times and I realized Safaricom (or at least M-Pesa) have reason to run scared.

MVNO is seriously disruptive and Safaricom seems to have all the downside. When a competitor threatens your core business you look for a way to threaten his. When you can't (and superior technology plus 7 years experience are no substitute) you worry.

This war is clearly asymmetrical and, like you say, Mwangi is not stupid. He is certainly not Airtel who arrived here he with a new-kid's disadvantage and untested models to boot. Mwangi knows the terrain and he wrote the manual on growing 'bottom of the pyramid' business.

We shall see.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#327 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:31:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
[quote=tom_boy]1. With MVNO Equity stands to eat into every product that Safaricom offers - money transfer, data and voice.
How is this possible. If Equity to Equity transfers are free, the bank will stand to loose money as people will not use the payable services. If transfer is from Equity to another provider, interconnection charges will apply so no way it will be free.

The thin SIM will come with a virtual banking software that enables you to transact almost all banking business from your cellphone. I suspect Equity will give away the SIM and most of the virtual services, aiming to benefit from growing (banking) market share, operating efficiency and product sales. For telcom, they are planning to offer a per minute call rate of Ksh 2, later rising to 3 - similar to Airtel, Orange but better than Safaricom. I expect a similar deal on data.

2. Safaricom does not threaten Equity's core product - banking - and therefore can not play the kind of offensive game they did on Airtel.
Safaricom is not interested in Banking per se. They want the money transfer business. For Equity to access non Equity money transfer business, charges will apply therefore not much advantage there.

Equity wants to be the new M-Pesa and grow their core banking business at the same time. Let us say they get 6million of their members on the MVNO platform. The biggest charges that would apply are: the fixed cost of setting up (already covered) and the agency costs. Members of Equity will be able to conduct money transfers without the need of an Agent, so long as they have an Equity account and can load it. In other words these costs will go down with growth - can the matured M-Pesa do this? And remember they start with a potential 9 million customers already locked in

3. To beat M-Pesa Equity is offering a cost of 25 shillings maximum on money transfer, compare this with 300 plus that M-pesa charges you. And you don't even have to change your Phone/M-pesa number to use the thin SIM, only the prefix.
The 300 charge is a maximum amount. For the amounts that Equity members usually transfer, I am sure Safaricom can match the pricing.

How? Unless they can get Agents to 'eat' some of the reductions, or otherwise run M-Pesa as a loss leader, like Airtel. Do you see any of these happening?

4. For the 9M account holders the cost of most MVNO banking services, money transfer included, is ZERO. I bet with this kind of deal even you will reconsider your dormant account.
Here, Equity will have shot themselves in the foot. People will opt to use this no cost services at the cost of using payable cash withdrawals and transfers at the bank. They may recoup this though by laying off staff and achieving better efficiencies

I doubt that Mwangi would do anything that would lead to such an event. I suspect Equity will use MVNO to massively grow their banking business and then take the same model to countries outside Kenya. Something Safaricom can not do.

5. All this before you have even factored in the operating efficiencies and market penetration that Equity will reap from moving most of their customers to a virtual banking platform. MVNO is a game changer and Equity should make money from it from the get go.
Safaricom has way more experience in the telco market and money transfer market. Equity will be hill climbing and will soon discover free does not sell in Kenya. Ask Yu mobile

Maybe so. But the rules of the game have clearly changed. To win Safaricom must fight Equity on the money transfer, banking, voice and data fronts. Wheres all Equity has to do is to grow their core banking business and they will be ahead.


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
quicksand
#328 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:31:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
This thin sim biashara will not be a walk in the park for Equity. I doubt they will make any money for the first 2 yrs. Kenyans are peculiar people and we know that price alone is not a major motivator for people to jump ship especially when it comes to telecoms. In addition, Safcom is able to counter any price reductions likely to affect its market. In short Kenyans will benefit from lower prices but it remains to be seen whether this will translate to significant profit for Equity.


I don't share your pessimism. Here is why:

1. Equity already has over 9M members. That is a massive base from which to start.

2. JM has announced that they will be giving the thin SIM to any Kenyan, not just 'Meba' - his target is the 27M Kenyans with a phone.

3. Money transfer at 25 bob, max; plus all the benefits of electronic banking.

4. And don't forget that what Equity has is basically a license to do telkom, not just banking. (The Safaricom strategy has been turned against Safaricom)

5. The nationalism card - Equity is our bank versus, Safaricom is foreign owned/led....etc

What does Safaricom have to counter all this?

I think the tomboy is right. Your optimism is bubbly. JM is not an idiot and the product will succeed, may be even thrive, but Mpesa didnt become a juggernaut overnight. It is where it is cause of huge investment, technology and brilliant strategy.
Many Kenyans are annoyed with the current predatory pricing of Mpesa, but just cause guys are pissed doesn't give JM and the thin sim the deep technological depth required to run it without a hitch. Mpesa is seven years old now, yet you still get outages, slow speeds and deadbeat agents who cant manage float (you try six or seven agents before one where you are able to deposit).
All these things Equity will face and have to overcome. Safaricom has more serious technology than Equity/Airtel combo, and while Equity is tackling teething problems, Mpesa will not be sitting pretty -it will be a brutal fight in which Mpesa has thrown the first punch even before JM got the product out of the door.
Things will get interesting from a technological side -which for me is more interesting as a techie. My feeling is Equity is already having problems, otherwise they should have launched widely by now.


Let us wait and see.

I did not take this MVNO technology seriously until I saw Safaricom's reaction - it takes some serious threat to make this behemoth almost pee their pants as they have been doing recently.

Then I listened to Mwangi explain his strategy a number of times and I realized Safaricom (or at least M-Pesa) have reason to run scared.

MVNO is seriously disruptive and Safaricom seems to have all the downside. When a competitor threatens your core business you look for a way to threaten his. When you can't (and superior technology plus 7 years experience are no substitute) you worry.

This war is clearly asymmetrical and, like you say, Mwangi is not stupid. He is certainly not Airtel who arrived here he with a new-kid's disadvantage and untested models to boot. Mwangi knows the terrain and he wrote the manual on growing 'bottom of the pyramid' business.

We shall see.

It might be a while before we see, so lets continue the debate, right mano?
Ok, the way I see it,....a foe who is mortally threatened is very dangerous. Safcom running very scared is the appropriate reaction to this threat. If they hadn't, had they kept quiet and boasted how unassailable their position I would have written them off as lazy, incompetent and ripe for a takedown. That fear has people hatching strategies day and night. Equity blundered very badly there with their pricing plan announcement.
Now there are some costs, very huge costs that come with becoming a Telco and many here simply do not see them, they simply see profits and the counter really taking off. The costs have to be financed from somewhere· Let me elaborate and temper the enthusiasm a bit:
1. The license. I do not know the exact amount Equity paid for its MVNO, but these licences usually run into billions.
2. The network. Let no one cheat you, the red network is s***. It does not degrade badly cause there arent many guys on it. Their managememt miscalculated with 3G rollout so that coverage is not upto par. These data and voice revenues that Equity might be expected to pull from that aspect of the business? Exaggerated.
3. Comms regulations will kick in. Those are expensive to maintain. To mention a few, must maintain 7 year archives. Need a call center. Need to maintain service levels above some threshold. They demand infrastructure and also "provision for" accounting resources thingies. One telco was docked 300 mill (or was 500?) for low service quality.
4. Expertise, starting costs: The red network had its own money service, which they bungled. Equity will need to control the service directly, and not proxy through the network's old system if they hope to succeed. New and serious IT infrastructure is required so that the 9 million already in their stable start off happy and without a hitch.
5. Security: From what I heard, there is no encryption on the thin-sim. The base sim at least has DES. This has to have some Equity people worried, I see a very high probability someone will write malware to access the sims naked API and some interesting court battles will ensue. Perhaps this is what is keeping them?
6. What might Safcom do? Equity will force them to be less greedy, prices will come down, agents get higher commissions.
7. Open Mpesa to other banks. These other banks are spectators in the Equity/Safaricom axis. They would love a piece of the pie, opening the system up adds appeal, staves off the impending annihilation.

All in all? It does not change much, Equity's thing becomes a good money earner for Equity but not the decapitating sword of wrath people are making it out to be. There is no lunch to be eaten here. 60-40 market split for Safcom-Equity after some 5 years ofsmilerough battle.
But you are all entitled to hype it, watch the stock skyrocket and make a killing smile I hold a dimmer view.
murchr
#329 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:17:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Wakanyugi wrote:
murchr wrote:
[Safcom doesnt want to be called a bank at all....no way


Then they are in a big pickle, aren't they?

As for ring fencing their agents, that horse already bolted when CCK forced the end of the exclusive Agency model. Safaricom is right now in the process of reviewing contracts to allow their agents to work with anybody.

And they can't compete on price, not with the pressure from agents to be allowed a bigger commission (remember that money transfer through Equity MVNO will not require an agent, so long as you have an Equity account).

If I was Safaricom I would walk away from this fight, start looking across the borders for growth opportunities. Granted the deal with their mother company may not allow competition on voice and data in most markets.

But, with the experience they have now, they could easily export the M-Pesa model to countries like South Sudan, Uganda and Central Africa and hope to mint some coins, before JM comes calling and takes their lunch again.


You are making too many assumptions in imagining that Safcom will not match those trasaction fees just because of agents. But since you live in lala land. Keep watching. How many months has it been after the expected "launch" month?

So far the transaction fees have been reduced by up to 67% in the Kshs 10-1,500 transfer range. Amounts exceeding Kshs. 1,501 will be charged transaction fees at an average of 0.8%. That is Equity's target market. They intend to charge 1% with a cap of 25/-

There's so much more services that MPESA offers that Equity is yet to introduce. I think there's enough for all the players, what i foresee is the two killing the likes of Orange and Airtel money.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
ngapat
#330 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:29:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/11/2006
Posts: 884
Equity doesn't mind much about revenue from cash transfer service but rather attracting low cost deposits.
This is the reason they will allow cash transfer within their network at no cost. The catch here is to enable people even buy from mama mboga and pay through MVNO hence Equity will have a large pool of low cost deposits which they can loan and get high profit margins. You will not see the need to withdraw cash meaning the money will just be revolving within Equity bank and only changing owners.
Imagine paying at "iko Choo" with MVNO
“Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
Mart_Consult
#331 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:58:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/7/2013
Posts: 127
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
quicksand wrote:

It might be a while before we see, so lets continue the debate, right mano?
Ok, the way I see it,....a foe who is mortally threatened is very dangerous. Safcom running very scared is the appropriate reaction to this threat. If they hadn't, had they kept quiet and boasted how unassailable their position I would have written them off as lazy, incompetent and ripe for a takedown. That fear has people hatching strategies day and night. Equity blundered very badly there with their pricing plan announcement.
Now there are some costs, very huge costs that come with becoming a Telco and many here simply do not see them, they simply see profits and the counter really taking off. The costs have to be financed from somewhere· Let me elaborate and temper the enthusiasm a bit:
1. The license. I do not know the exact amount Equity paid for its MVNO, but these licences usually run into billions.
2. The network. Let no one cheat you, the red network is s***. It does not degrade badly cause there arent many guys on it. Their managememt miscalculated with 3G rollout so that coverage is not upto par. These data and voice revenues that Equity might be expected to pull from that aspect of the business? Exaggerated.
3. Comms regulations will kick in. Those are expensive to maintain. To mention a few, must maintain 7 year archives. Need a call center. Need to maintain service levels above some threshold. They demand infrastructure and also "provision for" accounting resources thingies. One telco was docked 300 mill (or was 500?) for low service quality.
4. Expertise, starting costs: The red network had its own money service, which they bungled. Equity will need to control the service directly, and not proxy through the network's old system if they hope to succeed. New and serious IT infrastructure is required so that the 9 million already in their stable start off happy and without a hitch.
5. Security: From what I heard, there is no encryption on the thin-sim. The base sim at least has DES. This has to have some Equity people worried, I see a very high probability someone will write malware to access the sims naked API and some interesting court battles will ensue. Perhaps this is what is keeping them?
6. What might Safcom do? Equity will force them to be less greedy, prices will come down, agents get higher commissions.
7. Open Mpesa to other banks. These other banks are spectators in the Equity/Safaricom axis. They would love a piece of the pie, opening the system up adds appeal, staves off the impending annihilation.

All in all? It does not change much, Equity's thing becomes a good money earner for Equity but not the decapitating sword of wrath people are making it out to be. There is no lunch to be eaten here. 60-40 market split for Safcom-Equity after some 5 years ofsmilerough battle.
But you are all entitled to hype it, watch the stock skyrocket and make a killing smile I hold a dimmer view.


1. The MVNO license cost Equity Kes. 100,000. Equity probably M-pesad CAK this cash (pun intended) Even a Wazuan can get one if they can fulfill all other requirements.(that's the catch)
2. Equity has partners in Helios ( I know Eaton owns the Airtel towers) . Work your network- get what you need done.
3. That (infrastructure) is Airtel's responsibility. With the jackpot from the Eaton deal, should see them pull up their socks soon.
4 & 5. Equity as Bank knows what security and investment means. It comes with good expertise on board in its CIO + CFO (they seem to have settled with the latter)
6. There's a trust factor that comes with the Equity brand. Safaricom is because of lack of choice. Equity is because it's the choice...all in their targeted market.
7. Any Bank CEO will tell you the same thing. They'd rather own the platform. Equity just went a step ahead and did it.

Definitely no overnight kill this shall be...but an interesting history chapter begins in the telecoms industry. As we all learned about Graham, so shall our young entrepreneurial ones about James....(okay that's an exaggeration but you get the point)smile Pray Pray
I went into the (Ferry) industry knowing the same thing I knew with all other businesses I went into- Nothing. Then I built it from there. - Sheldon Adelson (Titans at the Table- Giants of Macau)
quicksand
#332 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:39:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Mart_Consult wrote:
quicksand wrote:

It might be a while before we see, so lets continue the debate, right mano?
Ok, the way I see it,....a foe who is mortally threatened is very dangerous. Safcom running very scared is the appropriate reaction to this threat. If they hadn't, had they kept quiet and boasted how unassailable their position I would have written them off as lazy, incompetent and ripe for a takedown. That fear has people hatching strategies day and night. Equity blundered very badly there with their pricing plan announcement.
Now there are some costs, very huge costs that come with becoming a Telco and many here simply do not see them, they simply see profits and the counter really taking off. The costs have to be financed from somewhere· Let me elaborate and temper the enthusiasm a bit:
1. The license. I do not know the exact amount Equity paid for its MVNO, but these licences usually run into billions.
2. The network. Let no one cheat you, the red network is s***. It does not degrade badly cause there arent many guys on it. Their managememt miscalculated with 3G rollout so that coverage is not upto par. These data and voice revenues that Equity might be expected to pull from that aspect of the business? Exaggerated.
3. Comms regulations will kick in. Those are expensive to maintain. To mention a few, must maintain 7 year archives. Need a call center. Need to maintain service levels above some threshold. They demand infrastructure and also "provision for" accounting resources thingies. One telco was docked 300 mill (or was 500?) for low service quality.
4. Expertise, starting costs: The red network had its own money service, which they bungled. Equity will need to control the service directly, and not proxy through the network's old system if they hope to succeed. New and serious IT infrastructure is required so that the 9 million already in their stable start off happy and without a hitch.
5. Security: From what I heard, there is no encryption on the thin-sim. The base sim at least has DES. This has to have some Equity people worried, I see a very high probability someone will write malware to access the sims naked API and some interesting court battles will ensue. Perhaps this is what is keeping them?
6. What might Safcom do? Equity will force them to be less greedy, prices will come down, agents get higher commissions.
7. Open Mpesa to other banks. These other banks are spectators in the Equity/Safaricom axis. They would love a piece of the pie, opening the system up adds appeal, staves off the impending annihilation.

All in all? It does not change much, Equity's thing becomes a good money earner for Equity but not the decapitating sword of wrath people are making it out to be. There is no lunch to be eaten here. 60-40 market split for Safcom-Equity after some 5 years ofsmilerough battle.
But you are all entitled to hype it, watch the stock skyrocket and make a killing smile I hold a dimmer view.


1. The MVNO license cost Equity Kes. 100,000. Equity probably M-pesad CAK this cash (pun intended) Even a Wazuan can get one if they can fulfill all other requirements.(that's the catch)
2. Equity has partners in Helios ( I know Eaton owns the Airtel towers) . Work your network- get what you need done.
3. That (infrastructure) is Airtel's responsibility. With the jackpot from the Eaton deal, should see them pull up their socks soon.
4 & 5. Equity as Bank knows what security and investment means. It comes with good expertise on board in its CIO + CFO (they seem to have settled with the latter)
6. There's a trust factor that comes with the Equity brand. Safaricom is because of lack of choice. Equity is because it's the choice...all in their targeted market.
7. Any Bank CEO will tell you the same thing. They'd rather own the platform. Equity just went a step ahead and did it.

Definitely no overnight kill this shall be...but an interesting history chapter begins in the telecoms industry. As we all learned about Graham, so shall our young entrepreneurial ones about James....(okay that's an exaggeration but you get the point)smile Pray Pray

100,000? Really? That doesn't sound fair.
Your point #7 also applies to the network, Equity will want to own it. This infrastructure lease-managed-by-others will unravel, just like red's outsourcing to IBM and NSN has turned out not too rosy. You want your own talent on the controls, this SLA thing is very dicey.
innovator
#333 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:42:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/24/2010
Posts: 236
Location: nairobi
At least they have a direction, others can only follow.
Rahatupu
#334 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:50:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
ngapat wrote:
Equity doesn't mind much about revenue from cash transfer service but rather attracting low cost deposits.
This is the reason they will allow cash transfer within their network at no cost. The catch here is to enable people even buy from mama mboga and pay through MVNO hence Equity will have a large pool of low cost deposits which they can loan and get high profit margins. You will not see the need to withdraw cash meaning the money will just be revolving within Equity bank and only changing owners.
Imagine paying at "iko Choo" with MVNO



@ngapat, this is already happening with Safaricom all over, Equity will not have an advantage here Lipa na M-pesa is getting strong footing as well.
MKWASI
#335 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:56:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/20/2012
Posts: 888
Even if Safaricom charges Zero, I'm ready to move to Mwangi's- as a protest vote. I'm just tired of exploitation. The other day I logged in for my statement and guess what I was not able to view the charges!! may be I need to be educated. Do those mpesa statements have charges?
I wanted to calculate the magnitude of this exploitation!!
ngapat
#336 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:32:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/11/2006
Posts: 884
Rahatupu wrote:
ngapat wrote:
Equity doesn't mind much about revenue from cash transfer service but rather attracting low cost deposits.
This is the reason they will allow cash transfer within their network at no cost. The catch here is to enable people even buy from mama mboga and pay through MVNO hence Equity will have a large pool of low cost deposits which they can loan and get high profit margins. You will not see the need to withdraw cash meaning the money will just be revolving within Equity bank and only changing owners.
Imagine paying at "iko Choo" with MVNO



@ngapat, this is already happening with Safaricom all over, Equity will not have an advantage here Lipa na M-pesa is getting strong footing as well.

i believe safaricom charges for lipa na mpesa
“Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
Wakanyugi
#337 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:24:35 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
murchr wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
murchr wrote:
[Safcom doesnt want to be called a bank at all....no way


Then they are in a big pickle, aren't they?

As for ring fencing their agents, that horse already bolted when CCK forced the end of the exclusive Agency model. Safaricom is right now in the process of reviewing contracts to allow their agents to work with anybody.

And they can't compete on price, not with the pressure from agents to be allowed a bigger commission (remember that money transfer through Equity MVNO will not require an agent, so long as you have an Equity account).

If I was Safaricom I would walk away from this fight, start looking across the borders for growth opportunities. Granted the deal with their mother company may not allow competition on voice and data in most markets.

But, with the experience they have now, they could easily export the M-Pesa model to countries like South Sudan, Uganda and Central Africa and hope to mint some coins, before JM comes calling and takes their lunch again.


You are making too many assumptions in imagining that Safcom will not match those trasaction fees just because of agents. But since you live in lala land. Keep watching. How many months has it been after the expected "launch" month?


You are the one in lala land my friend.

Yesterday evening I listened to an announcement by Safaricom saying they are now offering more international transfers via M-Pesa. In short they are accelerating the project to corner the international remittance market.

Translation? M-Pesa is going upmarket, where transfer cost is not a big factor.

At 25 bob a pop from JM, the downmarket segment is almost as good as gone.

Tafakari hayo



"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
murchr
#338 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 2:04:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Wakanyugi wrote:
murchr wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
murchr wrote:
[Safcom doesnt want to be called a bank at all....no way


Then they are in a big pickle, aren't they?

As for ring fencing their agents, that horse already bolted when CCK forced the end of the exclusive Agency model. Safaricom is right now in the process of reviewing contracts to allow their agents to work with anybody.

And they can't compete on price, not with the pressure from agents to be allowed a bigger commission (remember that money transfer through Equity MVNO will not require an agent, so long as you have an Equity account).

If I was Safaricom I would walk away from this fight, start looking across the borders for growth opportunities. Granted the deal with their mother company may not allow competition on voice and data in most markets.

But, with the experience they have now, they could easily export the M-Pesa model to countries like South Sudan, Uganda and Central Africa and hope to mint some coins, before JM comes calling and takes their lunch again.


You are making too many assumptions in imagining that Safcom will not match those trasaction fees just because of agents. But since you live in lala land. Keep watching. How many months has it been after the expected "launch" month?


You are the one in lala land my friend.

Yesterday evening I listened to an announcement by Safaricom saying they are now offering more international transfers via M-Pesa. In short they are accelerating the project to corner the international remittance market.

Translation? M-Pesa is going upmarket, where transfer cost is not a big factor.

At 25 bob a pop from JM, the downmarket segment is almost as good as gone.

Tafakari hayo





Mpesa is cheaper numbers dont lie
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mlennyma
#339 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 2:13:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
This thread has become a novel to read
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
Wakanyugi
#340 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:09:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
murchr wrote:


Mpesa is cheaper numbers dont lie


You may want to ask for a refund from whoever taught you Maths.

Here are the numbers:

SAFARICOM - MPESA to MPESA CHARGES

To send Ksh 10 to 2500 Will cost you from Ksh 1 to 40

To send Ksh 2501 to 70,000 Will cost you from Ksh 55 to 110

PROPOSED EQUITY MVNO CHARGES

To send Ksh 10 to 2500 Will cost you from Ksh 0.1 to 25 (1%)

To send Ksh 2501 to 70,000 Will cost you a flat fee of Ksh 25

To send any amount from Equity to Equity will cost ZERO

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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