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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,907
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guru267 wrote:@Muriel what is your problem? Why do you expose your ignorance? Truthfully, I smiled this morning to read @guru267 irksome post. They make life better. So, where have you been? 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Ransom means substitute. Almighty God wanted to test the two men (Abraham and his sons), with their will, with self-sacrifice in the service of Allah. When they obeyed the test, God Almighty stopped Abraham from that and substituted for ram.
I will give you a simple reply to your atonement idea which you have in Christianity:
"The Sould that Sinneth, it Shall Die" Ezekiel 18.
In the Bible, we are told the same story. Just as Abrham was about to cut his son, the angel called to Abraham and said:
"...that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky... because you have obeyed me." (Genesis 22:16-18)
GOD WAS TESTING HIS OBEDIENCE. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT?
You will not go to the bible, Alphdoti. You will stay in the Qur'an. So say I. Quote:ransom ~ noun
1. money demanded for the return of a captured person
2. payment for the release of someone
3. the act of freeing from captivity or punishment
ransom ~ verb
1. exchange or buy back for money; under threat 37:107 And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice So we can read that 1. Allah paid a fine sheep for the release of the boy from his fate or 2. Allah freed or saved the boy from his captivity or 3. Allah exchanged or bought the boy with a fine sheep. @muriel, who told you Allah paid anybody anything? Who told you Allah had put Abraham's son in captivity? If Allah could put someone in captivity, why would it be difficult for Him to free Him? According to you, why is it that Allah could command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but Allah could not command the same Abraham not to sacrifice his son? I know @guka, @shosho, @kindegarten kids understand this: God Almighty wanted to test Abraham. And Abraham passed the test.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Alphdoti,
Yes Abraham passed the test. I do not dispute that but who told anyone that Allah can 'ransom' anybody?
Who wrote in the Qur'an that Allah said "we ransomed him ,,,,,"
Who could write such lies about Allah? That Allah can 'ransom' anyone?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Ransom means substitute. Almighty God wanted to test the two men (Abraham and his sons), with their will, with self-sacrifice in the service of Allah. When they obeyed the test, God Almighty stopped Abraham from that and substituted for ram.
I will give you a simple reply to your atonement idea which you have in Christianity:
"The Sould that Sinneth, it Shall Die" Ezekiel 18.
In the Bible, we are told the same story. Just as Abrham was about to cut his son, the angel called to Abraham and said:
"...that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky... because you have obeyed me." (Genesis 22:16-18)
GOD WAS TESTING HIS OBEDIENCE. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT?
You will not go to the bible, Alphdoti. You will stay in the Qur'an. So say I. Quote:ransom ~ noun
1. money demanded for the return of a captured person
2. payment for the release of someone
3. the act of freeing from captivity or punishment
ransom ~ verb
1. exchange or buy back for money; under threat 37:107 And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice So we can read that 1. Allah paid a fine sheep for the release of the boy from his fate or 2. Allah freed or saved the boy from his captivity or 3. Allah exchanged or bought the boy with a fine sheep. @muriel, who told you Allah paid anybody anything? Who told you Allah had put Abraham's son in captivity? If Allah could put someone in captivity, why would it be difficult for Him to free Him? According to you, why is it that Allah could command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but Allah could not command the same Abraham not to sacrifice his son? I know @guka, @shosho, @kindegarten kids understand this: God Almighty wanted to test Abraham. And Abraham passed the test. Why would God test a human?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Ransom means substitute. Almighty God wanted to test the two men (Abraham and his sons), with their will, with self-sacrifice in the service of Allah. When they obeyed the test, God Almighty stopped Abraham from that and substituted for ram.
I will give you a simple reply to your atonement idea which you have in Christianity:
"The Sould that Sinneth, it Shall Die" Ezekiel 18.
In the Bible, we are told the same story. Just as Abrham was about to cut his son, the angel called to Abraham and said:
"...that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky... because you have obeyed me." (Genesis 22:16-18)
GOD WAS TESTING HIS OBEDIENCE. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT?
You will not go to the bible, Alphdoti. You will stay in the Qur'an. So say I. Quote:ransom ~ noun
1. money demanded for the return of a captured person
2. payment for the release of someone
3. the act of freeing from captivity or punishment
ransom ~ verb
1. exchange or buy back for money; under threat 37:107 And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice So we can read that 1. Allah paid a fine sheep for the release of the boy from his fate or 2. Allah freed or saved the boy from his captivity or 3. Allah exchanged or bought the boy with a fine sheep. @muriel, who told you Allah paid anybody anything? Who told you Allah had put Abraham's son in captivity? If Allah could put someone in captivity, why would it be difficult for Him to free Him? According to you, why is it that Allah could command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but Allah could not command the same Abraham not to sacrifice his son? I know @guka, @shosho, @kindegarten kids understand this: God Almighty wanted to test Abraham. And Abraham passed the test. Why would God test a human? Why not? First, let me know where you stand, what you believe in: Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Budhist, Judaism, or New World Order? NOTE: Nobody can accuse me here of being discriminating, no. Because this is a religious thread to discuss religious issues. So I'm justified to ask where someone stands.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:
Alphdoti,
Yes Abraham passed the test. I do not dispute that but who told anyone that Allah can 'ransom' anybody?
Who wrote in the Qur'an that Allah said "we ransomed him ,,,,,"
Who could write such lies about Allah? That Allah can 'ransom' anyone?
I'm glad you're cooling down and being open mind. You see my brother @muriel, I've been saying in all those words, every person is personally responsible for his or her actions. There is no such thing as man inherits sin. This is summarized by Britisher Major Yeats Brown in his book " Life of a Bengal Lancer", referring to the Christian Doctrine of the Atonement.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
Ransom means substitute. Almighty God wanted to test the two men (Abraham and his sons), with their will, with self-sacrifice in the service of Allah. When they obeyed the test, God Almighty stopped Abraham from that and substituted for ram.
I will give you a simple reply to your atonement idea which you have in Christianity:
"The Sould that Sinneth, it Shall Die" Ezekiel 18.
In the Bible, we are told the same story. Just as Abrham was about to cut his son, the angel called to Abraham and said:
"...that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky... because you have obeyed me." (Genesis 22:16-18)
GOD WAS TESTING HIS OBEDIENCE. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT?
You will not go to the bible, Alphdoti. You will stay in the Qur'an. So say I. Quote:ransom ~ noun
1. money demanded for the return of a captured person
2. payment for the release of someone
3. the act of freeing from captivity or punishment
ransom ~ verb
1. exchange or buy back for money; under threat 37:107 And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice So we can read that 1. Allah paid a fine sheep for the release of the boy from his fate or 2. Allah freed or saved the boy from his captivity or 3. Allah exchanged or bought the boy with a fine sheep. @muriel, who told you Allah paid anybody anything? Who told you Allah had put Abraham's son in captivity? If Allah could put someone in captivity, why would it be difficult for Him to free Him? According to you, why is it that Allah could command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but Allah could not command the same Abraham not to sacrifice his son? I know @guka, @shosho, @kindegarten kids understand this: God Almighty wanted to test Abraham. And Abraham passed the test. Why would God test a human? Why not? First, let me know where you stand, what you believe in: Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Budhist, Judaism, or New World Order? NOTE: Nobody can accuse me here of being discriminating, no. Because this is a religious thread to discuss religious issues. So I'm justified to ask where someone stands. I stand for love and truth. And both know no parties. No God would test a human. That would imply doubt and ignorance in God. A contradiction. Wherever one may stand.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:
Alphdoti,
Yes Abraham passed the test. I do not dispute that but who told anyone that Allah can 'ransom' anybody?
Who wrote in the Qur'an that Allah said "we ransomed him ,,,,,"
Who could write such lies about Allah? That Allah can 'ransom' anyone?
I'm glad you're cooling down and being open mind. You see my brother @muriel, I've been saying in all those words, every person is personally responsible for his or her actions. There is no such thing as man inherits sin. This is summarized by Britisher Major Yeats Brown in his book " Life of a Bengal Lancer", referring to the Christian Doctrine of the Atonement. You will stay in the Qur'an. Who wrote in the Qur'an that Allah 'ransomed' someone?
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/21/2007 Posts: 326
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@Alphdoti, please answer @Muriel am also interested to learn Muriel wrote:
You will stay in the Qur'an.
Who wrote in the Qur'an that Allah 'ransomed' someone?
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Just keeping the thread alive.
I'm expecting answers.
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