Wazua
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Wazuans Employment Creation thought leadership
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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From what i am reading, it seems kenya can not be helped and there is no solution to what we are in.... we should therefore just sit and flow with nature to whatever pit it sends us. There is completely no hope of improving this Kenya. Totally doomed to its final death. And that's middle class talking by the way... and when the middle class talks, Kenya better listen....
I agree. Nothing can be done. totally.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:tycho wrote:murchr wrote:maka wrote:This is a very good thread,sadly input will be almost zero...a question i asked in the markets section which I believe @Murchr answered but not exhaustively...why does the govt allow business men to import almost everything?Why do we import clothes,yet we can grow our own cotton nd have our own textile industry,why we import tomato paste and pasta,yet we grow tomatoes and wheat which can be used to make the two...Our economic policies are all twisted...govt after govt doesn't address this vicious cycle that must be addressed thoroughly and in depth...The US is a great entrepreneurial country,something we must emulate to help raise our standard of living... Am glad you brought it up again. We need a serious paradigm shift if we are to create employment and grow this economy. First, policy should change. Kibaki tried to ban second hand furniture in GOK offices but am sure some smuggle in mitumbas and brand them Kenyan. Sadly these mitumbas take away dollars to other economies and employ low cadre employees. Can you imagine we dont even make underwear - yes the boxers, vests, bras even baby clothes, are all imported. What we make here(the jeans at EPZ) is almost always exported to other economies because we cant afford the finished product. I understand rivertex is up running, what do they make? We have an opportunity now the county govs can create a market by asking hospitals to source bedsheets and blankets from Rivatex, that should ignite some productivity which will improve efficiency. Leather - I have never seen a more carnivorous people than Kenyans, yaani we cant process leather? We have a "mido" crass that is obsessed with posh seats and everything classy, these imported faux leather seats go at the same price that real leather seats go for overseas why not jump into this opportunity? Do we need popcorn eggs from SA oranges from Israel, Wine from SA and Carlifornia yet grapes are rotting in our firms? How many blankets and sheets can the government buy, and at what price, in order to keep rivatex alive? Would that be economically efficient? Something related; why do some people go to India for treatment when there are doctors and similar services in Kenya? How are Chinese or Japanese products faring against American products in America? How about we start with where do GOK hospitals source their bedding from then we go from there. People go to india because its cheaper to get treated there because there are enough specialists - some things even GOK cant control Use the internet to get the answer of your last question @alma we are talking about employment creation, not job seekers. You dont need a degree to tan leather or cut and stitch a piece of cloth to make underwear You haven't answered any question here, and the government control you're talking about doesn't exist any more. Okay here's what I got from my Googling http://useconomy.about.c...omy/p/China_Economy.htm
Ah! https://news.vice.com/ar...ade-in-america-campaign I see you dint get it. The reason why there are protests in the US about Walmart is because they are currenlty trying to ride on the Made in America band wagon yet they are poor employers taking advantage of cheaply made goods in thirdworld countries. Thats why its flopping. have a look at car sales http://www.ibtimes.com/h...honda-nissan-kiahyundai
alma wrote: Murchr after losing each and every argument with me on this forum you should have learned to speak when you know what you are saying.  This link will help you http://www.amelinyangu.n...amp;id=11&Itemid=19
I also suggest that you consider why your explanation is similar to the 'sum' of the two links I have provided ?????What do u mean? @Murchr, I mean to end this line of conversation because it is counterproductive. These opinions are generalizations from imprecise grounds. There's a science of systems which should guide us accordingly. Otherwise these arguments have no end.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wendz wrote:From what i am reading, it seems kenya can not be helped and there is no solution to what we are in.... we should therefore just sit and flow with nature to whatever pit it sends us. There is completely no hope of improving this Kenya. Totally doomed to its final death. And that's middle class talking by the way... and when the middle class talks, Kenya better listen....
I agree. Nothing can be done. totally. We should avoid such defeatist attitudes. Besides, how can what you read here warrant such a conclusion? Wazua is just a speck in the sea of knowledge.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal? @tycho. Rasa wewe. You asked me for a country proud of itself, i gave you one then what? Kenya doesn't have to be like anyone else. Its just a smooth round wheel we are trying to make here. The wheel of efficiency, a functional forward thinking government and an enlightened well-woven Kenyan society. Or are we supposed to "invent" our wheel?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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mkeiy wrote:tycho wrote:@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal? @tycho. Rasa wewe. You asked me for a country proud of itself, i gave you one then what? Kenya doesn't have to be like anyone else. Its just a smooth round wheel we are trying to make here. The wheel of efficiency, a functional forward thinking government and an enlightened well-woven Kenyan society. Or are we supposed to "invent" our wheel? Firstly, my question wasn't about pride. It was about local consumption of locally produced goods/services being the major drive in a socio-economic system. South Korea may not qualify into such a category. Though am aware that the domestic market is related to economic being and development. You are talking about 'system improvement' that's good. But how are systems improved? By escalating commitment to certain processes? Which processes exactly? How is the system affected? Is it optimal? Otherwise even if I said 'ditto!' to your thoughts, how can we know there isn't a better idea? How can we know the best idea? So to me, the wheel must be examined, all the time. Re-invented.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/14/2012 Posts: 577 Location: Nairobi Kenya
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We can agree the issue we're discussing is complicated, multifaceted and dependent on many factors, all which cannot be aligned simultaneously. Then again nobody said it will be easy. What I think we need to figure out,therefore, is a starting point, a catalyst that will set the ball rolling. Ideas anyone??? Before I die - i will touch the sky!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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mkeiy wrote:tycho wrote:@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal? @tycho. Rasa wewe. You asked me for a country proud of itself, i gave you one then what? Kenya doesn't have to be like anyone else. Its just a smooth round wheel we are trying to make here. The wheel of efficiency, a functional forward thinking government and an enlightened well-woven Kenyan society. Or are we supposed to "invent" our wheel? If Singapore copied and pasted the Sessional paper number 10 of 1965 and succeeded why cant Kenya find itself to implement what it comes up with and copy the rest. Actually which country has not copied another? Tycho what does it feel to talk much but pass zero communication. Just for the sake of disagreeing bure kabisa "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:mkeiy wrote:tycho wrote:@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal? @tycho. Rasa wewe. You asked me for a country proud of itself, i gave you one then what? Kenya doesn't have to be like anyone else. Its just a smooth round wheel we are trying to make here. The wheel of efficiency, a functional forward thinking government and an enlightened well-woven Kenyan society. Or are we supposed to "invent" our wheel? If Singapore copied and pasted the Sessional paper number 10 of 1965 and succeeded why cant Kenya find itself to implement what it comes up with and copy the rest. Actually which country has not copied another? Tycho what does it feel to talk much but pass zero communication. Just for the sake of disagreeing bure kabisa Zero communication? Perhaps such a perception serves your interests @murchr. So far I have outlined that there exists a scientific method that can be used to find optimal solutions for this matter. We can use this method for example, to know what can be 'copied' and what can't be or shouldn't be 'copied' at all. This is about systems science http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_science
Yesterday I decided to follow my own advice and use this science to identify the problems and generate viable and feasible solutions and I can say for sure that while we have good intentions in saying do this or that without a scientific basis, the answers we are providing are far from optimal. So why should we use guesswork to solve our problems? Is this 'zero communication'?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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YoungMulla wrote:We can agree the issue we're discussing is complicated, multifaceted and dependent on many factors, all which cannot be aligned simultaneously. Then again nobody said it will be easy.
What I think we need to figure out,therefore, is a starting point, a catalyst that will set the ball rolling. Ideas anyone???
Starting point is knowing who 'you' or 'we' are in relation to an identifiable system who other important players are, how the system plays out, investigate on the problems noted and design a solution set then choose what's optimal.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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tycho wrote:Wendz wrote:From what i am reading, it seems kenya can not be helped and there is no solution to what we are in.... we should therefore just sit and flow with nature to whatever pit it sends us. There is completely no hope of improving this Kenya. Totally doomed to its final death. And that's middle class talking by the way... and when the middle class talks, Kenya better listen....
I agree. Nothing can be done. totally. We should avoid such defeatist attitudes. Besides, how can what you read here warrant such a conclusion? Wazua is just a speck in the sea of knowledge. This first time, you did not get it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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tycho wrote:YoungMulla wrote:We can agree the issue we're discussing is complicated, multifaceted and dependent on many factors, all which cannot be aligned simultaneously. Then again nobody said it will be easy.
What I think we need to figure out,therefore, is a starting point, a catalyst that will set the ball rolling. Ideas anyone???
Starting point is knowing who 'you' or 'we' are in relation to an identifiable system who other important players are, how the system plays out, investigate on the problems noted and design a solution set then choose what's optimal. Is it possible to give a clear example with say, agriculture. practical, simple example.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wendz wrote:tycho wrote:Wendz wrote:From what i am reading, it seems kenya can not be helped and there is no solution to what we are in.... we should therefore just sit and flow with nature to whatever pit it sends us. There is completely no hope of improving this Kenya. Totally doomed to its final death. And that's middle class talking by the way... and when the middle class talks, Kenya better listen....
I agree. Nothing can be done. totally. We should avoid such defeatist attitudes. Besides, how can what you read here warrant such a conclusion? Wazua is just a speck in the sea of knowledge. This first time, you did not get it. Sorry if I didn't get what you posted. Please elaborate on what you're saying.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wendz wrote:tycho wrote:YoungMulla wrote:We can agree the issue we're discussing is complicated, multifaceted and dependent on many factors, all which cannot be aligned simultaneously. Then again nobody said it will be easy.
What I think we need to figure out,therefore, is a starting point, a catalyst that will set the ball rolling. Ideas anyone???
Starting point is knowing who 'you' or 'we' are in relation to an identifiable system who other important players are, how the system plays out, investigate on the problems noted and design a solution set then choose what's optimal. Is it possible to give a clear example with say, agriculture. practical, simple example. It's possible to give an example using agriculture. I will do so after making a post on the results of the system analysis that I have conducted. Kindly allow me to bring it up to date.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:mkeiy wrote:tycho wrote:@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal? @tycho. Rasa wewe. You asked me for a country proud of itself, i gave you one then what? Kenya doesn't have to be like anyone else. Its just a smooth round wheel we are trying to make here. The wheel of efficiency, a functional forward thinking government and an enlightened well-woven Kenyan society. Or are we supposed to "invent" our wheel? If Singapore copied and pasted the Sessional paper number 10 of 1965 and succeeded why cant Kenya find itself to implement what it comes up with and copy the rest. Actually which country has not copied another? Tycho what does it feel to talk much but pass zero communication. Just for the sake of disagreeing bure kabisa This @tycho guy just keeps on yapping with nothing concrete. Never commits himself to the simple straight forward. Always hiding behind convoluted theories. @tycho, How will the "re-invented" wheel look like ? Give me a shape,not that BS of warped posts.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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mkeiy wrote:murchr wrote:mkeiy wrote:tycho wrote:@mkeiy, wanting to be like South Korea is good. But truly, it's a waste of 'time', the most important of economic resources. South Korea, or America have their own system time-lines that are unique though due to globalism there are similarities across socio-economic systems.
There's no office for paradigm shifts yet that is using time as a resource. So our words are now bordering on fantasy. Fantasy is good, but this is about 'thought leadership'. The first question is how should we think about these issues? What tools are at our disposal? @tycho. Rasa wewe. You asked me for a country proud of itself, i gave you one then what? Kenya doesn't have to be like anyone else. Its just a smooth round wheel we are trying to make here. The wheel of efficiency, a functional forward thinking government and an enlightened well-woven Kenyan society. Or are we supposed to "invent" our wheel? If Singapore copied and pasted the Sessional paper number 10 of 1965 and succeeded why cant Kenya find itself to implement what it comes up with and copy the rest. Actually which country has not copied another? Tycho what does it feel to talk much but pass zero communication. Just for the sake of disagreeing bure kabisa This @tycho guy just keeps on yapping with nothing concrete. Never commits himself to the simple straight forward. Always hiding behind convoluted theories. @tycho, How will the "re-invented" wheel look like ? Give me a shape,not that BS of warped posts. Not all wheels have shapes. The one we are talking about here doesn't necessarily have a specific shape, but is a 'wheel' in terms of 'function'. So please ask me about 'function'.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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The answer lies in @Masukuma's signature. I always find myself re-reading it many many times... Quote:The tragedy of the African is that he/she has been conditioned to consume what he does not produce and produce what he does not consume
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Okay, here's a picture of what is: Kenya is a processing machine for social interactions and capital. Processing rule is simple, social interactions without capital gains starve to death. End result is socially capitalized products that can go through other similar machines.
Problem is: There are those who know that they own the machine but don't know how to program the machine to yield desired outcomes. And those who don't know they own the machine and don't know enough of this machine to get their desired outcomes. These two groups contain the underemployed and unemployed. And the source of inequality. And they are very many. They scare and affect psychologically those who get their desired outcomes. Who, incidentally are very few.
The political class can promise, but many governments like ours have no or little capital. So, considering bureaucracy and the factors above expectation is greatly frustrated.
@wendz, agriculture is the backbone of our economy but it's far from being optimized. Why? Reasons above.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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washiku wrote:The answer lies in @Masukuma's signature. I always find myself re-reading it many many times... Quote:The tragedy of the African is that he/she has been conditioned to consume what he does not produce and produce what he does not consume 'Tragedy', is when a hero, a King, succumbs to an ignoble state, and reveals weakness. The said state of consumption is a characteristic.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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