Hello Wakanyugi,

I am sorry you are interested in my comment. I really am because now I have to explain it. I am sure D32 understands what it is about so I just mentioned it in passing not expecting a follow up question.

Anyway, it has got to do with the creator. It is a bright spot in the dark heavens. There is more to it than meets the eye. Of course if you were to go there, you would pass the individual stars one after another.

'Scientists' will tell you that the brightness and different colours if 'it' are due to 'gas'. 'Gas' in the vacuum of space! There is more to 'Orions Belt' than we are told.

Thank you for the detailed response. Quite impressive, although I must admit you lost me a bit at John 5:29. No matter.

I'll not try to argue my World view as I believe the evidence for a 'no space-time' Universe is fairly persuasive.

As to the point that one of us has to be right, am sorry but you are arguing an absolute position here. As I have maintained before (and no one has proved me wrong yet) our Universe, as it is set up, does not seem to permit absolutes. In other words, we seem to exist in a Universe where everything is possible and relative, subject only to our capacity as observers to perceive and interpret. Therefore, as long as the possibility exists that one or both of us could be wrong, you can not argue an absolute position (that one of us has to be right and the other wrong).

I know of know idea or principle or law etc, that has been proven beyond the point of possible falsifiability. Not even in mathematics. Of course this position is not new or unique (see for instance, the Schrodinger wave equation)

Finally back to your world view (Universe view actually). If the Universe has a beginning, what was there before it started?

How big is the Universe then? Is it as big as the 'edges' we can perceive with our instrument aided senses or bigger?

Woe is me! How I now regret!
Laugh!
Laugh!
Laugh!

Anyway, I must have an answer.

However, first let me rest - seeing that my time to rest is fast approaching - and you have given me homework to do!

I will 'dig up' something as I rest. See you next week.

Will respond.

It is important to note that, the idea that there is more to the Orion than meets the eye, is a christian concept.

Before picking it up from where @Muriel left it, let's explore on some fascinating things that Scripture has to say about astronomy.

It was not until a couple of hundred BC that scholars started proposing and figuring out that the Earth was round.

500 BC, Pythagoras proposed a spherical earth purely on aesthetic grounds.
400 BC, Plato espoused a spherical earth in his 4th and final dialogue Phaedo, giving it wider circulation.
384-322 BC Aristotle also proposed a spherical earth on geometric grounds, but backed up his assertion with physical evidence (described in his On the Heavens of 350BC[4.1])

- Persons living in southern lands see southern constellations higher above the horizon than those living in northern lands.

- The shadow of the Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round.

- The fact that objects fall to Earth towards its center means that if it were constructed of small bits of matter originally, these parts would naturally settle into a spherical shape.

- Aristotle's demonstration was so compelling that a spherical Earth was the central assumption of all subsequent philosophers of the Classical era (up to ~300 AD).

- He also used the curved phases of the moon to argue that the Moon must also be a sphere like the Earth.

It was already revealed in scripture that the Earth was round.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth

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Some extras

The shape of the Earth being known, the next question was, what is the size of the Earth? And how do you measure it? With what tools?

Eratosthenes (276 BC-194 BC) was a Greek mathematician, geographer and astronomer, who was the first person to measure the size of the Earth.

How he did it: http://www.juliantrubin....igten/eratosthenes.html

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In past history, different cultures have held different myths or beliefs about the Earth. With the knowledge that we now have, we consider those beliefs as absurd. E.g. Some believed that the Earth was being supported by four giant elephants, which were on a giant turtle. The Greeks believed that Atlas supported the Earth on his shoulder.





Well, it was already revealed in scripture that:

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

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Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

These two texts are referring to the constellations of Pleiades, Orion and Arcturus. Mazzaroth is unknown, but different people claim it to be different things.

God is showing Job how mighty He is.

"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades"



Science discovered that the Pleiades (Also known as the seven sisters) constellations, are bound together, moving in one direction.

Quoting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades

"The Reverend John Michell calculated in 1767 that the probability of a chance alignment of so many bright stars was only 1 in 500,000, and so correctly surmised that the Pleiades and many other clusters of stars must be physically related.[12] When studies were first made of the stars' proper motions, it was found that they are all moving in the same direction across the sky, at the same rate, further demonstrating that they were related."

Quoting Dr. Robert Julius Trumpler

"Over 25,000 individual measures of the Pleiades stars are now available, and their study led to the important discovery that the whole cluster is moving in a southeasterly direction. The Pleiades stars may thus be compared to a swarm of birds, flying together to a distant goal. This leaves no doubt that the Pleiades are not a temporary or accidental agglomeration of stars, but a system in which the stars are bound together by a close kinship."

Below, a simulation of Pleiades's movement. The reason why there are two images is because the two images together form a 3D image, allowing you to see depth. To view the 3D image, you will need place your face about a foot from the screen, then cross your eyes while viewing the image. Once you've crossed your eyes, you should see a third image show up between the two. Concetrate on the center image. To get a clear focus, adjust the crossing of your eyes and / or the distance from the screen.



God continues to show his greatness. In contrast to binding the Pleiades or "loose the bands of Orion".

The Orion is one of the most notable sights in the night sky, as it has the distinctive three stars "the belt".





The "bands of Orion" is the Orion belt. The Orion belt is made up of two stars "Alnilam", and "Mintaka" and a star cluster called "Alnitak"

Astronomers have discovered that the stars in the Orion belt are not held together like those of the Pleiades, instead, they are moving apart from each other at high speed, hence "loose the bands of Orion"

"canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?"



Arcturus is flying through the Milky Way, as if having a mind of it's own. It is not flying in the general direction as the rest of the stars.

In 1971, scientists discovered there are other stars that are moving with Arcturus. These other stars are known as the Arcturus stream (As written in scripture, "Arcturus with his sons").

"Arcturus is cutting perpendicularly through the galactic disk at a tremendous rate of speed – some 150 kilometers per second."

"Arcturus is not moving with the general stream of stars in the flat disk of our Milky Way galaxy. Instead, it is cutting perpendicularly through the galactic disk."

Quoted from: http://earthsky.org/brig...e-big-dipper-to-find-it

Amazing at how ancient men wrote thousands of years ago things that science are just now proving. Surely they did not come up with these things, a more plausible explanations is in 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God..."

Now back to the edge of the universe and the Orion.

The term "the heavens were opened" is very common in scripture. Consider that term as an opening of a portal in our universe, connecting us with heaven.

Examples

Ezekiel 1:1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Matthew 3:16,17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

So, "heaven opening" is very common, after all, how are beings supposed to transverse between Heaven and our universe, except if there is an opening? Or a portal?

Speaking about the second coming... Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Now that we have established that the idea of "heaven opening" being a common occurrence in scripture, as well as it being something that will need to take place at the second coming, the question that remains is, at the second coming, where will that opening be?

Some Christians believe that portal is contained or will open somewhere in the Orion. One of the reasons for this belief is in Isaiah 13:10, a verse that speaks about the second second coming.

"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine".

The Hebrew word "Keciyl" was translated to "constellations". When looking up the word "Keciyl" in Strong's concordance, we find that "Keciyl" means "Orion". "Keciyl" being the same root word that was used to refer to Orion in other verses that Orion has been mentioned, in Amos 5:8, Job 9:9 and Job 38:31.

Since the trajectory of the Second coming will affect the Orion, some Christians believe that the second coming will come from the direction of the Orion, the portal being in the Orion nebula.



The factor of the edge of the universe comes about because, if the Orion marks the point where the portal to heaven will be, could that be the edge of our universe? What we imagine when using the term "edge" is a physical end of our universe, but what we find at the Orion is not an "edge" as we imagine, but an entry or exit point to and from our universe - a portal.