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Muriel		#11 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 12:57:00 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142		tycho wrote: masukuma wrote: there is a difference between science and scientism Science in its purest sense is not a worldview but a method for systematically investigating and organising aspects of reality that we access through our senses. Simply put, science is a way of knowing reality. Scientism takes this one step further and claims that science is the only way of knowing reality. Whereas science is silent regarding the aspects of reality beyond its scope, scientism asserts that there is no reality beyond its scope. According to scientism, if something is not rational, or not verifiable through the physical senses, then it is not real. i am a man of science and not scientism.... @tycho don't complicate this thread! What do you mean by 'complicate'? Or is this a way of saying 'keep off'? I miss your input, brother. and Wakanyugi's.
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tycho		#12 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:21:00 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		symbols wrote: masukuma wrote: symbols wrote: masukuma wrote: symbols wrote: @masukuma - Good to know. What are known knowns and their limits? known knowns are those things that are captive to the body of knowledge. for example - We all know that everest is the 'highest' mountain - that is in our collective body of knowledge but continued studies into polishing into what is 'highest' and whether it relates to tallest have revealed that while Everest is the highest mountain on earth above sea level.. mauna Kea is the 'tallest' mountain from it's base! we know mount mckinley is the highest summit elevation and we know chimborazo is the highest from the centre of the earth. all these are aspects of knowing the same thing! but in a deeper way. previous knowledge can only be extinguished by newer more polished knowledge creating exceptions in terms e.t.c. So the collective body of knowledge is subject to unknown knowns and unknown unknowns? Unknown unknowns,meaning science doesn't know what it doesn't know and how it will affect the collective body of knowledge. What are the known knowns being denied? there are no 'unknown knowns' since that on it's own is paradoxical but there are 'unknown unknowns'. Knowing is not scientific! it's human. Science is just a method of 'knowing' by using empirical evidence and like democracy it's the worst form or knowing except all others that have been tried before (feel free to quote me). You haven't answered the questions. @masukuma has deep internal conflict. Consider what he's saying; 1. Human nature demands knowledge 2. All knowledge is not science 3. Science acknowledges 'unknown unknowns'. 4. Science has excluded other forms of knowing Therefore science is inhibiting other aspects of human nature. He neglects his own advice on 'morality matrix'. But if we take his advice we can see that science is a tool to aid whatever forms of knowledge that are available. What @masukuma calls 'crutches' are other forms of knowledge - 'vision', 'intuition'. That is, science helps to harness vision, intuition, revelation and other forms of knowing.
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tycho		#13 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:23:33 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		Muriel wrote: tycho wrote: masukuma wrote: there is a difference between science and scientism Science in its purest sense is not a worldview but a method for systematically investigating and organising aspects of reality that we access through our senses. Simply put, science is a way of knowing reality. Scientism takes this one step further and claims that science is the only way of knowing reality. Whereas science is silent regarding the aspects of reality beyond its scope, scientism asserts that there is no reality beyond its scope. According to scientism, if something is not rational, or not verifiable through the physical senses, then it is not real. i am a man of science and not scientism.... @tycho don't complicate this thread! What do you mean by 'complicate'? Or is this a way of saying 'keep off'? I miss your input, brother. and Wakanyugi's. A movie without 'complication' would be so boring. Thank you.
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masukuma		#14 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 4:33:31 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi		tycho wrote: @masukuma has deep internal conflict. Consider what he's saying; 1. Human nature demands knowledge 2. All knowledge is not science 3. Science acknowledges 'unknown unknowns'. 4. Science has excluded other forms of knowing Therefore science is inhibiting other aspects of human nature. He neglects his own advice on 'morality matrix'. But if we take his advice we can see that science is a tool to aid whatever forms of knowledge that are available. What @masukuma calls 'crutches' are other forms of knowledge - 'vision', 'intuition'. That is, science helps to harness vision, intuition, revelation and other forms of knowing. science just bases it's conclusions of facts... empirical facts. it does not imply that it's the only way of knowing... it is it's way of knowing and from the tiny instance of time where we have accepted it as a form of knowing it has not failed us. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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tycho		#15 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 4:51:07 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi		masukuma wrote: tycho wrote: @masukuma has deep internal conflict. Consider what he's saying; 1. Human nature demands knowledge 2. All knowledge is not science 3. Science acknowledges 'unknown unknowns'. 4. Science has excluded other forms of knowing Therefore science is inhibiting other aspects of human nature. He neglects his own advice on 'morality matrix'. But if we take his advice we can see that science is a tool to aid whatever forms of knowledge that are available. What @masukuma calls 'crutches' are other forms of knowledge - 'vision', 'intuition'. That is, science helps to harness vision, intuition, revelation and other forms of knowing. science just bases it's conclusions of facts... empirical facts. it does not imply that it's the only way of knowing... it is it's way of knowing and from the tiny instance of time where we have accepted it as a form of knowing it has not failed us. Science is a tool and product of knowledge itself. Yes, it has been used since humanity began, and has been reliable within its limits. But so have other forms of knowledge been equally reliable. In fact simultaneous reliance on the forms of knowing has helped humanity to survive. Like in image above, 'political knowing' and 'scientific knowing' are used in balance.
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