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The CURSE of Ham....
harrydre
#1 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 8:32:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
A controversial topic discussed over many years. Even my pastor will not explain this with confidence.

Quote:
Noah Said to Ham: Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren


Who are these modern day descendants of Canaan and where are they found?

Historically, it's been said and believed these are the African people looking at the problems they face but more and more research show otherwise.

Like the chart below shows Africans are a descendants of Put

i.am.back!!!!
Um Sayala
#2 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 9:12:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/17/2010
Posts: 1,163
Location: Sudan
harrydre wrote:
A controversial topic discussed over many years. Even my pastor will not explain this in confidence.

Quote:
Noah Said to Ham: Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren


Who are these modern day descendants of Canaan and where are they found?

Historically, it's been said and believed these are the African people looking at the problems they face but more and more research show otherwise.

Like the chart below shows Africans are a descendants of Put



First you must believe that everybody came through that lineage. A very tall order if you ask me
"Peace is our profession, War is our business" ...Unknown
harrydre
#3 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 9:44:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
Um Sayala wrote:
First you must believe that everybody came through that lineage. A very tall order if you ask me


Which begs the question on whether the great floods actually destroyed all life outside the Ark! ( I tend to think we still have Cain's descendants roaming the streets )

i.am.back!!!!
masukuma
#4 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 9:48:58 PM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
<throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works>what if I told you that Noah never existed?</throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works> the story is great! lot's of lessons but it's quite unlikely that animals would have been kept in a boat above the highest mountain in water and survived the thin air. but it's not a pointless story to tell.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Caramba
#5 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 9:58:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/27/2010
Posts: 266
Location: Nairobi
Where do the Chinese,Japanese and other Orientals fall under in that lineage?
Caramba
#6 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 10:07:18 PM
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Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
<throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works>what if I told you that Noah never existed?</throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works> the story is great! lot's of lessons but it's quite unlikely that animals would have been kept in a boat above the highest mountain in water and survived the thin air. but it's not a pointless story to tell.


Quite mind-boggling. Whereas I believe that Noah existed, I wonder how he was able to fit all those Animals into the Ark. And how did the Hyena curb it's hunger pangs while sleeping beside the goat?
Swenani
#7 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 10:16:29 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Caramba wrote:
Where do the Chinese,Japanese and other Orientals fall under in that lineage?


Those ones were not created, they evolvedsmile smile
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
guru267
#8 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 10:19:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
harrydre wrote:
I tend to think we still have Cain's descendants roaming the streets


Somalis?
Gypsies??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Swenani
#9 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 10:21:09 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
guru267 wrote:
harrydre wrote:
I tend to think we still have Cain's descendants roaming the streets


Somalis?
Gypsies??


Haiya

But I also believe Delila is roaming wazua. She is Guru267?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
masukuma
#10 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 10:35:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Caramba wrote:
masukuma wrote:
<throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works>what if I told you that Noah never existed?</throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works> the story is great! lot's of lessons but it's quite unlikely that animals would have been kept in a boat above the highest mountain in water and survived the thin air. but it's not a pointless story to tell.


Quite mind-boggling. Whereas I believe that Noah existed, I wonder how he was able to fit all those Animals into the Ark. And how did the Hyena curb it's hunger pangs while sleeping beside the goat?

let's assume that the hyena hung around for 40 days without food and after that.. it waited until all antelopes had multiplied before starting to eat. Leopards, cheetahs, lions... ngojeni... huyu mtoto ni wangu! ngojeni next year!

A few misconceptions about the bible
1. it's not a single book! it's a library of books written over a number of centuries/millenia. it's a work of literacy. do you think paul meant that his letter sent to Philemon via epaphroditus would end up in the canon? he may have not even remembered the words of that particular letter coz he wrote so many to so many people.
2. that the bible is an accurate historical book and it's contents are timeless. the writers extracted materials for their cultural context

That said - I am a christian and I will read the stories of Noah to my children.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#11 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 11:00:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
The Biblical curse of ham story is the source of black slavery.
Muriel
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:08:51 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
masukuma wrote:
<throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works>what if I told you that Noah never existed?</throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works> the story is great! lot's of lessons but it's quite unlikely that animals would have been kept in a boat above the highest mountain in water and survived the thin air. but it's not a pointless story to tell.


What spanner?

What was the highest mountain and how high was it?
Muriel
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:13:49 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
masukuma wrote:
Caramba wrote:
masukuma wrote:
<throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works>what if I told you that Noah never existed?</throwing_a_spanner_into_the_works> the story is great! lot's of lessons but it's quite unlikely that animals would have been kept in a boat above the highest mountain in water and survived the thin air. but it's not a pointless story to tell.


Quite mind-boggling. Whereas I believe that Noah existed, I wonder how he was able to fit all those Animals into the Ark. And how did the Hyena curb it's hunger pangs while sleeping beside the goat?

let's assume that the hyena hung around for 40 days without food and after that.. it waited until all antelopes had multiplied before starting to eat. Leopards, cheetahs, lions... ngojeni... huyu mtoto ni wangu! ngojeni next year!

A few misconceptions about the bible
1. it's not a single book! it's a library of books written over a number of centuries/millenia. it's a work of literacy. do you think paul meant that his letter sent to Philemon via epaphroditus would end up in the canon? he may have not even remembered the words of that particular letter coz he wrote so many to so many people.
2. that the bible is an accurate historical book and it's contents are timeless. the writers extracted materials for their cultural context

That said - I am a christian and I will read the stories of Noah to my children.


Raise the bar! You guys have it too low - on scavengers.

I read some lions went on a diet and "refused" to eat someone. Yes.

Mukiri
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:44:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
This question was addressed on the last Apologetics



Proverbs 19:21
masukuma
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:39:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
I think most of our problems lie in thinking that all the stories in the bible happened as is written. that there were some robe wearing people millennia ago that did exactly as it is written and only as it is written.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Muriel
#16 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:08:23 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
I think most of our problems are not solved by our inability to give answers, any answers, to our simple questions like names and height of highest mountains.

This is hardly "science".
Muheani
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 12:41:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/20/2009
Posts: 1,402
harrydre wrote:
Um Sayala wrote:
First you must believe that everybody came through that lineage. A very tall order if you ask me


Which begs the question on whether the great floods actually destroyed all life outside the Ark! ( I tend to think we still have Cain's descendants roaming the streets )



Where I come from..we were told he is Called Mutheca Itu. (mutheca correctly pronounced mutheshasmile )..yaaani a very tall guy piecing the sky

So one of the fears we had was roaming around at night alone lest you meet mutheca itu.
masukuma
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 12:49:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Muheani wrote:
harrydre wrote:
Um Sayala wrote:
First you must believe that everybody came through that lineage. A very tall order if you ask me


Which begs the question on whether the great floods actually destroyed all life outside the Ark! ( I tend to think we still have Cain's descendants roaming the streets )



Where I come from..we were told he is Called Mutheca Itu. (mutheca correctly pronounced mutheshasmile )..yaaani a very tall guy piecing the sky

So one of the fears we had was roaming around at night alone lest you meet mutheca itu.

yeah... we used to be told the same. that in the evening you could actually see him if you got home late. I think it's a narrative that came the 'Wandering Jew' legend possibly brought to us by the catholics.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Muriel
#19 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:19:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Faith.

If I cannot be enlightened on the mountains and their heights (hence altitude that could not be survived by the floating survivors), then I am being told to take by faith that mountains were unsurvivably high hence floating and living above their heights is not probable so doubts on their submergence as a "reason".

Faith.

Why this particular faith? Why not other faith?

Faith.
symbols
#20 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:25:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
Muriel wrote:
I think most of our problems are not solved by our inability to give answers, any answers, to our simple questions like names and height of highest mountains.

This is hardly "science".


...give us one free miracle and we'll explain the restLaughing out loudly
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