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Malaysian aircrash again!!!!!!!!!
Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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AlphDoti wrote:Kratos wrote:The biggest loser in this incident will be truth. Currently most major western news media are portraying this as a Russian job or at least Ukrainian separatists backed by Russia yet there are no reliable facts. We have "experts" lining up in studios to present their opinions as facts.
Gone are the days when news was factual, nowadays its more of "how i view it" rather than "how it actually happened". @kratos, you're the first person I've spoken today who has a wider view of things like these! Many are quick to say oh Putin, oh so and so... forgetting to ask why would Putin do something that would make him first suspect? And the height from which this thing was done, 10KM!! I mean who would do such with such precision? Was it done from a bomber jet? Was it done by someone who wants Putin to look bad? Was it done by someone who wants this region to go into "war"? Obama??????????? Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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I choose the faint hearted...A hard decision coz of curiosity.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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Posting without a wider assessment of facts is evident from quite a few here.
Other than this area being under the firm control of the pro-Russian forces the following is compelling not speculative:
1. The leader of the pro-Russian separatist movement on his Russian version of twitter boasted about his troops having brought down "another [Ukrainian] bird" just to immediately pull it down when they realised it was a passenger jet. Lucky enough, screen shots were taken by readers for posterity and investigative purposes.
2. The Ukrainian intelligence forces intercepted comms between two senior pro-Russian separatist movement leaders and played it for global media to make their own assessment. The chaps talking quite clearly about their men taking down this passenger jet.
3. Multiple and independent reports and pictures of SAM Russian missiles in the area in recent days.
4. 2 Ukrainian planes shot down in recent days at 5KM altitude.
What else do you want?
The above against speculation that:
1. Ukraine wanted to shoot down "Putin's" plane and risk all out war with a major global nuclear power so as "to get attention" and "the world behind them"..
Sometimes for some even if the truth stood right infront of them, they would deny it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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AlphDoti wrote:Kratos wrote:The biggest loser in this incident will be truth. Currently most major western news media are portraying this as a Russian job or at least Ukrainian separatists backed by Russia yet there are no reliable facts. We have "experts" lining up in studios to present their opinions as facts.
Gone are the days when news was factual, nowadays its more of "how i view it" rather than "how it actually happened". @kratos, you're the first person I've spoken today who has a wider view of things like these! Many are quick to say oh Putin, oh so and so... forgetting to ask why would Putin do something that would make him first suspect? And the height from which this thing was done, 10KM!! I mean who would do such with such precision? Was it done from a bomber jet? Was it done by someone who wants Putin to look bad? Was it done by someone who wants this region to go into "war"? Tukianza hivi...tunaweza sema pia someone wants the Malaysian airline finished! i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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Poor guy! Can't imagine the shock on him when the plane got hit! http://ww2.nationalpost....es-tragically-prophetic
i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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ecstacy wrote:Posting without a wider assessment of facts is evident from quite a few here.
Other than this area being under the firm control of the pro-Russian forces the following is compelling not speculative:
1. The leader of the pro-Russian separatist movement on his Russian version of twitter boasted about his troops having brought down "another [Ukrainian] bird" just to immediately pull it down when they realised it was a passenger jet. Lucky enough, screen shots were taken by readers for posterity and investigative purposes.
Igor Strelkov – also known as Igor Girkin – the leader of the pro-Russian separatists fighting the Ukrainian government forces for control of eastern Ukraine, used his page on the social networking site Vkontakte to boast that his men had just shot down an aircraft. In a message posted at 2.50 p.m. BST, he wrote: “In the district of Torez an An-26 was just shot down. It crashed somewhere near the Progress mine.
“We warned them not to fly in ‘our skies.’ Here is video confirmation of the latest ‘fallen bird.’ The bird landed outside the residential zone, no peaceful civilians were injured.”
His post was accompanied by a video of a plume of black smoke rising from the ground, one of several videos that were posted online within two hours of MH17 going missing. It quickly became clear that an aircraft had indeed come down near the village of Grabovo in the Torez area, 25 miles from the Russian border, but the wreckage bore the distinctive white, red and blue livery of Malaysian Airlines.
2. The Ukrainian intelligence forces intercepted comms between two senior pro-Russian separatist movement leaders and played it for global media to make their own assessment. The chaps talking quite clearly about their men taking down this passenger jet.
3. Multiple and independent reports and pictures of SAM Russian missiles in the area in recent days.
4. 2 Ukrainian planes shot down in recent days at 5KM altitude.
What else do you want?
The above against speculation that:
1. Ukraine wanted to shoot down "Putin's" plane and risk all out war with a major global nuclear power so as "to get attention" and "the world behind them"..
Sometimes for some even if the truth stood right infront of them, they would deny it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2009 Posts: 2,375
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ecstacy wrote:ecstacy wrote:Posting without a wider assessment of facts is evident from quite a few here.
Other than this area being under the firm control of the pro-Russian forces the following is compelling not speculative:
1. The leader of the pro-Russian separatist movement on his Russian version of twitter boasted about his troops having brought down "another [Ukrainian] bird" just to immediately pull it down when they realised it was a passenger jet. Lucky enough, screen shots were taken by readers for posterity and investigative purposes.
Igor Strelkov – also known as Igor Girkin – the leader of the pro-Russian separatists fighting the Ukrainian government forces for control of eastern Ukraine, used his page on the social networking site Vkontakte to boast that his men had just shot down an aircraft. In a message posted at 2.50 p.m. BST, he wrote: “In the district of Torez an An-26 was just shot down. It crashed somewhere near the Progress mine.
“We warned them not to fly in ‘our skies.’ Here is video confirmation of the latest ‘fallen bird.’ The bird landed outside the residential zone, no peaceful civilians were injured.”
His post was accompanied by a video of a plume of black smoke rising from the ground, one of several videos that were posted online within two hours of MH17 going missing. It quickly became clear that an aircraft had indeed come down near the village of Grabovo in the Torez area, 25 miles from the Russian border, but the wreckage bore the distinctive white, red and blue livery of Malaysian Airlines.
2. The Ukrainian intelligence forces intercepted comms between two senior pro-Russian separatist movement leaders and played it for global media to make their own assessment. The chaps talking quite clearly about their men taking down this passenger jet.
3. Multiple and independent reports and pictures of SAM Russian missiles in the area in recent days.
4. 2 Ukrainian planes shot down in recent days at 5KM altitude.
What else do you want?
The above against speculation that:
1. Ukraine wanted to shoot down "Putin's" plane and risk all out war with a major global nuclear power so as "to get attention" and "the world behind them"..
Sometimes for some even if the truth stood right infront of them, they would deny it. That is a conspiracy by the West to make Russia look bad and give them an excuse to invade Eastern Ukraine It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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bkismat wrote:ecstacy wrote:ecstacy wrote:Posting without a wider assessment of facts is evident from quite a few here.
Other than this area being under the firm control of the pro-Russian forces the following is compelling not speculative:
1. The leader of the pro-Russian separatist movement on his Russian version of twitter boasted about his troops having brought down "another [Ukrainian] bird" just to immediately pull it down when they realised it was a passenger jet. Lucky enough, screen shots were taken by readers for posterity and investigative purposes.
Igor Strelkov – also known as Igor Girkin – the leader of the pro-Russian separatists fighting the Ukrainian government forces for control of eastern Ukraine, used his page on the social networking site Vkontakte to boast that his men had just shot down an aircraft. In a message posted at 2.50 p.m. BST, he wrote: “In the district of Torez an An-26 was just shot down. It crashed somewhere near the Progress mine.
“We warned them not to fly in ‘our skies.’ Here is video confirmation of the latest ‘fallen bird.’ The bird landed outside the residential zone, no peaceful civilians were injured.”
His post was accompanied by a video of a plume of black smoke rising from the ground, one of several videos that were posted online within two hours of MH17 going missing. It quickly became clear that an aircraft had indeed come down near the village of Grabovo in the Torez area, 25 miles from the Russian border, but the wreckage bore the distinctive white, red and blue livery of Malaysian Airlines.
2. The Ukrainian intelligence forces intercepted comms between two senior pro-Russian separatist movement leaders and played it for global media to make their own assessment. The chaps talking quite clearly about their men taking down this passenger jet.
3. Multiple and independent reports and pictures of SAM Russian missiles in the area in recent days.
4. 2 Ukrainian planes shot down in recent days at 5KM altitude.
What else do you want?
The above against speculation that:
1. Ukraine wanted to shoot down "Putin's" plane and risk all out war with a major global nuclear power so as "to get attention" and "the world behind them"..
Sometimes for some even if the truth stood right infront of them, they would deny it. That is a conspiracy by the West to make Russia look bad and give them an excuse to invade Eastern Ukraine I do not like hypocritical Western policy but surely yours is another broad unsubstantiated statement. Less emotion, more facts. What facts do you have to back your claim?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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ecstacy wrote:bkismat wrote:ecstacy wrote:ecstacy wrote:Posting without a wider assessment of facts is evident from quite a few here.
Other than this area being under the firm control of the pro-Russian forces the following is compelling not speculative:
1. The leader of the pro-Russian separatist movement on his Russian version of twitter boasted about his troops having brought down "another [Ukrainian] bird" just to immediately pull it down when they realised it was a passenger jet. Lucky enough, screen shots were taken by readers for posterity and investigative purposes.
Igor Strelkov – also known as Igor Girkin – the leader of the pro-Russian separatists fighting the Ukrainian government forces for control of eastern Ukraine, used his page on the social networking site Vkontakte to boast that his men had just shot down an aircraft. In a message posted at 2.50 p.m. BST, he wrote: “In the district of Torez an An-26 was just shot down. It crashed somewhere near the Progress mine.
“We warned them not to fly in ‘our skies.’ Here is video confirmation of the latest ‘fallen bird.’ The bird landed outside the residential zone, no peaceful civilians were injured.”
His post was accompanied by a video of a plume of black smoke rising from the ground, one of several videos that were posted online within two hours of MH17 going missing. It quickly became clear that an aircraft had indeed come down near the village of Grabovo in the Torez area, 25 miles from the Russian border, but the wreckage bore the distinctive white, red and blue livery of Malaysian Airlines.
2. The Ukrainian intelligence forces intercepted comms between two senior pro-Russian separatist movement leaders and played it for global media to make their own assessment. The chaps talking quite clearly about their men taking down this passenger jet.
3. Multiple and independent reports and pictures of SAM Russian missiles in the area in recent days.
4. 2 Ukrainian planes shot down in recent days at 5KM altitude.
What else do you want?
The above against speculation that:
1. Ukraine wanted to shoot down "Putin's" plane and risk all out war with a major global nuclear power so as "to get attention" and "the world behind them"..
Sometimes for some even if the truth stood right infront of them, they would deny it. That is a conspiracy by the West to make Russia look bad and give them an excuse to invade Eastern Ukraine I do not like hypocritical Western policy but surely yours is another broad unsubstantiated statement. Less emotion, more facts. What facts do you have to back your claim? @ecstacy nobody has facts as to who did it. We only have possibilities based on what we know. Quote:The finger of blame quickly pointed at the pro-Russian rebels, largely because of the earlier claim of shooting down an aircraft but also because a Ukrainian cargo aircraft had been shot down days before by a surface-to-air missile.
Ukraine’s president Petro Poroshenko described the incident as a “terrorist act,” having earlier said: “We do not exclude that the plane was shot down and confirm that the Ukraine armed forces did not fire at any targets in the sky.” So on one side, we can go with fingers pointed at the pro-Russian rebels. I cannot say that's correct or wrong, simply because nobody is sure. But you forgot to post the following from the same article Quote:Meanwhile, another faction, the Lugansk People’s Republic, blamed Ukraine, saying in a statement: “Witnesses watching the flight of the Boeing 777 passenger plane saw it being attacked by a battle plane of the Ukrainian forces.
“After that the passenger plane split in two in the air and fell on the territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic.” So my experience tells me, anything is possible, even the most unsuspected party maybe the culprit who takes advantage of an opportunity for an agenda. So for now I rest my case.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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Let me help the West 'haters' a little, you need it.
The US decision to support the Mujahideen against Russia in Afghanistan came to haunt them when they ended up having to fight the same group which had since evolved to the Taliban.
The US decision to train rebels in Jordan and arm them to fight Assad came to bite them in the @ss when some of them ended up forming ISIS and are now involved in the most gruesome acts of inhumanity in living memory in Iraq and worse against fellow rebels in Syria.
Face it now, the Russia decision to arm the pro-Russia rebels in Ukraine has come to bite a good chunk of their @ss in Ukraine. Boneheads with weapons!!!
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