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I'm debt free starting today!!!!!!!!!!
tycho
#81 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 7:21:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Intelligentsia wrote:
tycho wrote:
Intelligentsia wrote:
Quote:
People can get rich either through careful borrowing or by saving and continually investing.



Now there I agree.


The argument can't be true. If saving is turned to investment without innovation and technological advancement then wealth can't be created or increased. In fact, the economy will stagnate.

And if there's to be growth in surpluses then there must be quantum leaps in capital infusion, meaning borrowing.

People can get rich only if they maintain an optimum level that maintains a balance of payment where credit is greater than zero.



@tycho... you are missing the point by several galaxies.
The point of departure is not about what or the process the wealth/svings/capital will be transformed (i.e whether innovation or through tech.) but rather the SOURCE of that wealth: ergo, to borrow or to build up capital from savings?

Either can do. I know many companies/ indivs who have grown organically and are very debt-shy.
Recall Warren Buffet, personal wealth estimated at $60B, hardly borrowed and yet has the wherewithal to singlehandedly fund Kenya's Free Primary Education for a financial year.

Others who have used debt prudently have also experienced quantum leaps in all their financial parameters - top line, bottom line, ROE,ROA, market share, cost-to-income ratio, the works.

For @ Impunity, this Tip No 6 from 10 Ways To Get Rich will resonate with you:

6. Limit What You Borrow: Living on credit cards and loans won't make you rich. Warren Buffett has never borrowed a significant amount -- not to invest, not for a mortgage. He has gotten many heart-rendering letters from people who thought their borrowing was manageable but became overwhelmed by debt. His advice: Negotiate with creditors to pay what you can. Then, when you're debt-free, work on saving some money that you can use to invest.
http://www.warrenbuffett...tt-10-ways-to-get-rich/


On the contrary, it's you who seem not to get the point.

Let's take an example: Mr. X wants to be rich. What to do? Because he's not rich now, he must use what he has now to get rich in the future. This, in all cases means credit.

Here, the source of wealth is the creation and use of Credit.

Mr. Buffet is the largest shareholder of Berkshire Hathaway, how did create his wealth? Through share holding? How is a conglomerate built?

Investment means Credit. And though a company may be credit shy, it will always allow credit to others to increase wealth. Meaning allowing Credit to itself.
harrydre
#82 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:59:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
you just informed us how poor you are smile

No rich man is without debt.
i.am.back!!!!
jaggernaut
#83 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:42:56 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
harrydre wrote:
you just informed us how poor you are smile


True. Never knew he was this poor. Didn't know someone would celebrate repaying the loan of his 10 yr old + jalopy, which in essence belongs to the scrap yard in it's country of origin. Just imagine the car was worth 900k 5yrs ago, he's paid a total of 2m in loan plus interest, and now the jalopy is worth only 500k. Yaani his 2m 'investment' is now worth just 500k. What a poor financial decision? We just have to pity him as he celebrates.
Impunity
#84 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 8:07:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
jaggernaut wrote:
harrydre wrote:
you just informed us how poor you are smile


True. Never knew he was this poor. Didn't know someone would celebrate repaying the loan of his 10 yr old + jalopy, which in essence belongs to the scrap yard in it's country of origin. Just imagine the car was worth 900k 5yrs ago, he's paid a total of 2m in loan plus interest, and now the jalopy is worth only 500k. Yaani his 2m 'investment' is now worth just 500k. What a poor financial decision? We just have to pity him as he celebrates.


You dont know!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

tycho
#85 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 9:35:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The Bible has a certain parable about a rich fool, who is Judged promptly, by the giver of life.

For a long time I have wondered what made the rich man foolish, and as I have been thinking about this thread I realize that a fool is one who is not fully conscious of his debts, and indebtedness.

So if one can be rich and foolish, is it possible to be poor and wise?

Wisdom must certainly entail consciousness of indebtedness, therefore wisdom must be industrious and will always seek a balance of indebtedness through mutualism. So one can't be both poor and wise.

And a rich fool is necessarily poor.
Pierce
#86 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:34:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,464
tycho wrote:
The Bible has a certain parable about a rich fool, who is Judged promptly, by the giver of life.

For a long time I have wondered what made the rich man foolish, and as I have been thinking about this thread I realize that a fool is one who is not fully conscious of his debts, and indebtedness.

So if one can be rich and foolish, is it possible to be poor and wise?

Wisdom must certainly entail consciousness of indebtedness, therefore wisdom must be industrious and will always seek a balance of indebtedness through mutualism. So one can't be both poor and wise.

And a rich fool is necessarily poor.


Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad
simonkabz
#87 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 1:13:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
jaggernaut wrote:
harrydre wrote:
you just informed us how poor you are smile


True. Never knew he was this poor. Didn't know someone would celebrate repaying the loan of his 10 yr old + jalopy, which in essence belongs to the scrap yard in it's country of origin. Just imagine the car was worth 900k 5yrs ago, he's paid a total of 2m in loan plus interest, and now the jalopy is worth only 500k. Yaani his 2m 'investment' is now worth just 500k. What a poor financial decision? We just have to pity him as he celebrates.

Iko mtu hajaambiwa poa Laughing out loudly
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Impunity
#88 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:26:45 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Engine
#89 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:35:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/26/2008
Posts: 90
Debt is just forced saving. It is only that it is the other way round in that you spend first then save via repayment installments.
Othelo
#90 Posted : Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:53:00 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
Engine wrote:
Debt is just forced saving. It is only that it is the other way round in that you spend first then save via repayment installments.

Aish boss Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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