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The Name of Jesus Christ
akowally
#31 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:30:32 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,126
Location: Nairobi
@ Wendz

Children can be dedicated to God e.g. like in the following verse:

For this child I prayed; and the Lord hath given me my petition which I asked of him: Therefore also I have lent him to the Lord; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord" (I Samuel 1:27-28)


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AlphDoti
#32 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 7:47:51 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@akowally, @Ja-Kom, @Jean I'm glad you're giving a thought to what I said. Just to add a little more.

The majority of Christians believe in the following basic concepts:
- The Trinity,
- The divine Sonship of Jesus,
- The original sin, and
- The death of "the Son of God" on the cross in punishment for the original sin of Adam.

Everything else is demoted into the background. A Christian can be saved and enter heaven by simply believing in the above creeds. According to Paul, the previous law and commandments of God are worthless. To him, just a belief will guarantee eternal salvation. For example, he's quoted to have said:

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28.)

What does Jesus say? "Why are you calling me holy? No one is good other than God alone. If you want eternal life, then follow the laws" (Luka 18:18)
What does God say? "As with body without spirit is dead, is Faith without actions is dead." (Jacob 2:26)
Ja-Kom
#33 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 8:55:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/28/2009
Posts: 290
Grace is favour-which NONE of us deserve, yet you maintain that it is 'conditional'!..so i see it,correct me if am wrong.
There is also more than one definition of sin, for there are many 'faces' of sin, eg.,
- ‘Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.’
1 John 3:4.
- ‘All unrighteousness is sin.’ 1 John 5:17
- ‘Everything which is not of faith is sin.’ Romans 14:23…and this is where your take on the Faith concept is wrong ma Brother.

Romans 3:19-24 (New International Version)
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus".

The love for, and faith in Our Heavenly Father, with the belief in our Lord Jesus Christ, is the only way to do 'good works'. That is why faith without works is dead, just like works without faith is.

Without faith, we have absolutely no understanding of what love truly is. And everything we do without that 'godly love' which comes from faith, is done for the wrong reasons and completely worthless.

Without faith, we do things to be seen, to be appreciated, or to justify ourselves to the world and to ourselves as well. These things are useless.

But with faith, we learn God's love for one another, and for His creation. And it is that 'true love' that makes 'true works'. Not that we have done a single thing... but that God has done something beautiful through us! And this is only possible in our belief in the Lord Jesus! That is why the crowns will be cast at HIS feet, and not remain on our heads.

So worthless works are our own because they are worthless. And those true 'good works', are not our own, and thus have true value. That is why they should be done in secret. That is why we are not to boast. They are not ours when done for the right reason. God gets ALL the glory.

This even goes for what we like to call our 'spiritual gifts. They are not ours! They are God's! And they are not 'ours' to have, but they are God's to give THROUGH us. So our 'spiritual gifts, are FROM God, and FOR others. We just have the privilege of being messengers, delivering God's gift to our fellow human beings. So we must not even dare brag about our 'spiritual gifts' as if they make us something special.

This is what faith is, love is, and what 'works' are. When something is done in 'true godly love', there is no law, only faith. And only God may have the glory.
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19
JeanLucPiccard
#34 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 12:32:26 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 23
Location: Nairobi
@Alph-Doti, about the whole children being born clean thing, I dont see how those verses confirm that. It only says that the kindgdom belongs to those who are like children. It's like me saying that my son is like Bill Gates. You cannot therefore infer that I mean he is rich, I could mean he wears spectacles! More backup is needed to support that argument.

What I know is Rom 3:23, Isa 53:6

Anyway, you have not yet answered my questions. In summary:

- Please confirm that you do not consider Paul's books as legitimate part of scripture
- Please therefore confirm that you do not consider Paul to be a true apostle (you say that his words are his, and not scripture - you said that he said so himself - yet you refer to one particular section where he mentioned that this was his opinion, and not from God. It would mean, therefore, to me, that he his other writings to be from God)
- Also, since I have concluded that in your opinion, Paul's writings are not legitimate scripture, let us know which books of the Bible you consider inspired of God and legitimate.
AlphDoti
#35 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 3:50:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Is it "Blind faith" or "Prove all things"?

Please allow me to answer you using the scriptue. But, let us first establish the ground rules.
All Bibles in existence today tell us that Christians are taught by Jesus himself:

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." Mark 12:29-30. And now who's teaching people about trinity? Is it Jesus? You know who it is.

They are also told "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21
And "For God is not [the author] of confusion" 1 Corinthians 14:33. Now who's telling us to forget about laws?

So, contrary to the teachings of many, Jesus did not want his followers to believe everything they were told on "blind faith."
Rather, he wanted his followers to believe "with all thy mind." He wanted us to THINK in order to protect his words from corruption.
Let us comply with the teaching of the one God has sent, Jesus, and see where the truth and our minds will lead us.

Based on all the above, is this not fair? Is this not what the Bible and Jesus himself say?
So let us use our minds and be inquisitive. Let us ask questions so that we may indeed be able to truthfully claim that we have loved God "with all our minds."
akowally
#36 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:09:43 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,126
Location: Nairobi
@ AlphDoti

I like the fact that you have quoted from Paul on the last post. As Christians we use the Bible as the way that God talks to us and just like Ja-Kom well put it, Timothy 3.16 says that All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Thus we are not to chose what one person says as true and disregard another...thus we can not disregard Paul's posts. If he wanted to derail Christians from Jesus' teaching, then why would he preach and baptise all in Jesus' name. If Raila wants Kibaki out...he will openly say that he opposes him and wants people to vote for him.


@ Noble
Baptism on water is what was commanded by Christ and as Christians we were COMMANDED to do it.

Mat 28.18-20

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Let me talk just a bit on the Holy Spirit

1. The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit

This is received at baptism

Acts 2.38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8.9-11
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

2. Baptism of the Holy Spirit Acts 2 and Acts 10

1.This was predicted i.e. prophesied about
2.It was a promise and not a command
3.It came without warning
4.They spoke in tongues (not babbling). Tongues means a language that exists. More about tongues can be found on 1 Corinth 12 and 14 which has the correctives on how to use them. 1 Corinth 13.8-10 prophesies that use of tongues will be stilled. Note 1.Cor 14.26-28: 2 or 3 should speak, one at a time and someone must interpret.
The modern tongue movement began in the early 1900's but speaking in tongues is common to many religions because the religion got dry and stale.

A person can be filled with the spirit without speaking in tongues e.g. John the Baptist (Luke 1.15). Jesus never spoke in tongues and was accorded the full measure of the Spirit (John 3.34-36)

5.The purpose of was to usher in the Kingdom


Baptism of the Holy Spirit is no longer present as it was a prophesy/promise that has been fulfilled. It was never a general command to all Christians but only for the and was fulfilled at Pentecost and to the gentiles in Acts 10. Here they were clearly baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Mark 1.8 "I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." This was not a command but a prophesy and like unlike what we are COMMANDED to baptize (in water) in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28.18-20.

Therefore the one we practice is the baptism in water in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and to receive the indwelling of the Spirit as taught on Matt 28.18-20

The baptism is recorded all through the book of Acts and the epistles. 1 Peter 3.21 (written around 62 AD). Water baptism is the only one that was being practiced by 60-62 AD. And like Paul says there is only ONE baptism (Ephesians 4.4-6)

I hope that answers your questions.
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akowally
#37 Posted : Friday, January 08, 2010 8:54:42 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,126
Location: Nairobi
@ AlphDoti

Probably you were on holiday but I hope you got this
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