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The Revolution of Consciusness
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Any revolution is also a result of humans working hard to understand and 'control' nature. We must realize that our philosophy and culture must be studied and questioned with respect to our daily experiences.
We must embrace humiliation. Tycho; why do we need to embrace humiliation? Surely when our beliefs are proved wrong, all we need is to accept the lesson learned and move on? Knowledge is protected by the self. To learn, the self must lose. Against the Self. But why would we chose humiliation? Everything has a cost. To be better the ego must pay. Look at initiation rites. Or how we look at past civilizations as backward. So we shouldn't be one with the ego?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness? Why does this sound familiar?  May I invite you to consider this: Separateness is not the same as 'uniqueness'; 'autonomy'; 'freedom' even 'individualism' which are all things we fear losing if we lose our separateness. If you stood by a street corner and watched human beings pass by, you would think they are all different. Yet scientists now tell us that, according to DNA, (the basic code that defines who we are) we are 99.9% similar. In other words, as 'un-seprate' as makes no difference. Ms. Williamson accepts that "on the level of bodies, we're all separate of course."Why then are the scientists contradicting her by saying that we are 99.9% similar? This is dissonance. What, you are with Ms Williamson now? (I thought you didn't like her) The separateness you and her speak of is clearly illusory. Like saying your hand is separate from your body because it looks different to the other parts. Laugh Laugh Laugh. The art of war! By me 'appearing' to agree with her you now call her statements "illusory". Fantasy. Indeed they are illusory. Dance moves! Laugh laugh laugh. "on the level of bodies, we're all separate of course." is really her words. Honest. She is deluded. Look at that black cat peeping at the dancers. Is it part of "us"? What does not exist cannot be perceived. Once its perceived, it exists. Illusion is perceived hence it exists.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? If I have two plastic chairs,are they one because they are similar? Are you saying that we are like the body? This is a good analogy, as long we don't push it too far. As for the evidence, we could start with the article by Ms Williamson or, if you want to go to the source, read for yourself, 'A Course in Miracles' the book she references; or read 'The Secret' etc etc. That is the only 'religion' I'll quote. Science: you could read up on 'entanglement, decoherence, double slit experiment, the Schrodinger wave equation, the parallel universes theory etc and make your own conclusions.' Philosophy: everything from The Ramayana to Plato will do. The case made over and over is: all reality is illusion, all reality is one. We are only playing a role. Finally you could listen to your own intuition, as I do quite often and simply remember. Have fun! "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? If I have two plastic chairs,are they one because they are similar? Are you saying that we are like the body? What is the scientific,religious and philosophical evidence? The chairs are one because of the definition of 'plastic chair' and context. Experiment: how many kinds of plastic chairs can you imagine?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Any revolution is also a result of humans working hard to understand and 'control' nature. We must realize that our philosophy and culture must be studied and questioned with respect to our daily experiences.
We must embrace humiliation. Tycho; why do we need to embrace humiliation? Surely when our beliefs are proved wrong, all we need is to accept the lesson learned and move on? Knowledge is protected by the self. To learn, the self must lose. Against the Self. But why would we chose humiliation? Everything has a cost. To be better the ego must pay. Look at initiation rites. Or how we look at past civilizations as backward. So we shouldn't be one with the ego? The ego is a tool. Tools are controlled.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? If I have two plastic chairs,are they one because they are similar? Are you saying that we are like the body? This is a good analogy, as long we don't push it too far. As for the evidence, we could start with the article by Ms Williamson or, if you want to go to the source, read for yourself, 'A Course in Miracles' the book she references; or read 'The Secret' etc etc. That is the only 'religion' I'll quote. Science: you could read up on 'entanglement, decoherence, double slit experiment, the Schrodinger wave equation, the parallel universes theory etc and make your own conclusions.' Philosophy: everything from The Ramayana to Plato will do. The case made over and over is: all reality is illusion, all reality is one. We are only playing a role. Finally you could listen to your own intuition, as I do quite often and simply remember. Have fun!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness? Why does this sound familiar? May I invite you to consider this: Separateness is not the same as 'uniqueness'; 'autonomy'; 'freedom' even 'individualism' which are all things we fear losing if we lose our separateness. If you stood by a street corner and watched human beings pass by, you would think they are all different. Yet scientists now tell us that, according to DNA, (the basic code that defines who we are) we are 99.9% similar. In other words, as 'un-seprate' as makes no difference. Ms. Williamson accepts that "on the level of bodies, we're all separate of course."Why then are the scientists contradicting her by saying that we are 99.9% similar? This is dissonance. What, you are with Ms Williamson now? (I thought you didn't like her) The separateness you and her speak of is clearly illusory. Like saying your hand is separate from your body because it looks different to the other parts. Laugh Laugh Laugh. The art of war! By me 'appearing' to agree with her you now call her statements "illusory". Fantasy. Indeed they are illusory. Dance moves! Laugh laugh laugh. "on the level of bodies, we're all separate of course." is really her words. Honest. She is deluded. Look at that black cat peeping at the dancers. Is it part of "us"? The cat is part of the dance. It is one with us. The cat is us. The cat wrote:
What does not exist cannot be perceived. Once its perceived, it exists. Illusion is perceived hence it exists.
Please don't get me started my sister. It is a Friday We perceive through our senses - are you saying reality is limited to only that which can be apprehended though the senses? Our senses are located within our physical vehicle. Does it mean we are limited to our bodies? Is that not like saying the distance you can reach is limited by the car you drive? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? If I have two plastic chairs,are they one because they are similar? Are you saying that we are like the body? What is the scientific,religious and philosophical evidence? The chairs are one because of the definition of 'plastic chair' and context. Experiment: how many kinds of plastic chairs can you imagine? That's like saying men and bulls are one because they are male mammals.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Any revolution is also a result of humans working hard to understand and 'control' nature. We must realize that our philosophy and culture must be studied and questioned with respect to our daily experiences.
We must embrace humiliation. Tycho; why do we need to embrace humiliation? Surely when our beliefs are proved wrong, all we need is to accept the lesson learned and move on? Knowledge is protected by the self. To learn, the self must lose. Against the Self. But why would we chose humiliation? Everything has a cost. To be better the ego must pay. Look at initiation rites. Or how we look at past civilizations as backward. So we shouldn't be one with the ego? The ego is a tool. Tools are controlled. What is the purpose of this tool?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:symbols wrote:Muriel wrote:"Like waves in the ocean or sunbeams to the sun, there is actually nowhere where one of us stops and another one starts. On the level of bodies, we're all separate of course. But on the level of consciousness, we are one."
"Separateness" must be acknowledged and is confirmed. Why cannot it extend to consciousness?
I foresee chains and bonds for the separated ones. That all may be one. The maxim. There are some things you wouldn't want to be one with. Maybe so. But the question is, are there any things that we are not one with? We are all one with something. The question is what. Allow me to rephrase: ' We are all one with everything. The question is, why do we chose to be one with things that we do not like?' Let me borrow from what @Muriel wrote before.Physically we are not one.Why can't it extend to consciousness? Being similar or having the capacity to affect each other doesn't make us one. How now? Your arms and legs and nose etc all 'different.' Does that make You separate? Similarly you and I may look different but, genetically speaking we are not. If you shine a light through a prism it splits into many different colors. Does that make the light separate? In the same way all 'things' that comprise the Universe only seem separate. They are not. There is a reason why we create this illusion of separateness, but it is not real. The scientific, religious, philosophical evidence in this regard is overwhelming. But of course it is hard to let go of a favored illusion. What shall happen to us then? If I have two plastic chairs,are they one because they are similar? Are you saying that we are like the body? What is the scientific,religious and philosophical evidence? The chairs are one because of the definition of 'plastic chair' and context. Experiment: how many kinds of plastic chairs can you imagine? That's like saying men and bulls are one because they are male mammals. Yes. Aren't they?
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