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PCUSA (elder brother to PCEA) To Allow Gay Marriages
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti - I asked you to show me the word of God in the Bible.Where is it? @symbol, are you serious? You want me to show you the Words of God in the Bible with all the mess the Bible scholars have done? I have said again and again that the original Torah, Zabur and Injeel was the original words of God. Currently, none of these Scriptures remain in their original form now! Remember, history has shown that Bible has suffered changes throughout the ages. How many times do you want me to repeat this? What you're saying is you don't know what is the word of God in the Bible? You also don't know what the Torah,Zabur and Injeel are.You don't know what the Qur'an recognizes except its claims on the matter. @symbol, whether you deny it or not: Some parts of the Bible is the word of God. But the whole Bible is not the word of God. Bible is a mixture, it has:- in some places the Word of God, which is the reminiscence (remainder) of the revealed scripture - it also contains the words of the prophets- it also contain the words of the historians- unfortunately, it even contains pornographic stuff too So the original Torah, Zabur and Injeel was not preserved! Shame on the people who changed, and they keep changing the scripture   So if you investigate, you will find the author of the current Gospel are various authors of each book. So who is the author? Mainly human beings (according to Christian scholars), namely: John, Matthew etc. What we should be seeing is Gospel according to Jesus (peace be upon him), the Injeel which was given to Jesus (pbuh). But what the Bible contain is: Gospel according to Matthew, gospel according to Mark, gospel according to Luke, gospel according to John etc So even Christian Scholars say, the Gospel you see in the Bible has been written by human beings. So we cannot attribute the complete Bible as the Word of God.  So....you don't know 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
I am ok with it.Islam doesn't have a Sabbath because Allah disbanded it.
 Allah (God Almighty) disbanded it way before Quran was revealed. He disbanded it in the Bible! If you want me to show you, I will show you. I don't blame you if you don't know whole of your Bible. This is not a Christian issue so why are you referring to the Bible? Show me the original scriptures of the Torah that say the Sabbath was disbanded. You asked why Muslims do not have Sabbath, and I told you because it was already disbanded. And besides, it means God rested, and we know God does not need rest, He does not get tired in guarding His creation. It's blasphemous. Anyway, I'll show you where it was disbanded by God, way before the Quran was sent down. It is in the Bible itself... You want to quote a Bible and you don't know what the word of God is in the Bible? Is this a matter of knowing what the word of God is when convenient I already told you I am ok with Allah disbanding the Sabbath. @symbol, I have to show you the evidence. I don't have the 'original', you can ask your scholars for that, I'm using my copy of KJV that I bought from your book store. Now see how Quran tells the story. M/Mungu akawapatia mtihani, kupatikana kwa samaki siku ya jumamosi, yaani Sabato ili kuwajaribu imani yao. Quran 7:163 " And ask them (O Muhammad ) about the town that was by the sea, when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them for they used to rebel" (similar case in the Qur'an 4:154). Mtihani wenyewe ni gani?Nehemia 13:16 " Watu kutoka Tiro waliokuwa wakiishi Yerusalemu walileta samaki na aina nyingi za bidhaa na kuziuza Yerusalemu siku ya Sabato kwa watu wa Yuda. Niliwakemea wakuu wa Yuda na kuwaambia, "Ni uovu gani huu mnaofanya kuinajisi siku ya Sabato?" Baada ya kunajisi siku hiyo, M/Mungu alifanya nini?Hosea 2:11 Nitakomesha furaha na macheko yake yote: - sikukuu zake za mwaka, - sikukuu za Miandamo ya Mwezi, - siku zake za Sabato, - sikukuu zake zote zilizoamriwa. IMPORTANT: ON THAT DAY, GOD STOPPED MANY THINGS, NOT ONLY SABBATH  Even swahili was needed You've made me a believer.A dog can go back to its own vomit.Are you sure those Bible verses you are quoting aren't pornographic?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:And @Muriel is right. We're still wondering how God could say the Jews called Jesus Messiah. They never believed Jesus was Messiah, how then could Allah say Jews called Jesus son of Mary Messiah?
And the same Jews, who were waiting for a Messiah, were happy to see the guy they thought was the messiah dead
Either Allah is not God, or Muhammad received his revelations from another funny source @lonest I hope you can read my reply below, it is only 30 lines! The Jews killed John the baptist, yet they knew he was a prophet of God. They also killed Zakariyah, when they knew also that he was the prophet of God. This was the habit of these people, they were like this, even Jesus (pbuh) one time in Matt 21:42 told them: " prophet-hood will be given to another people who will bring forth good results because Jews kept killing prophets". So using your argument, if the Jews kept killing those prophets according to Jesus (pbuh), does it mean they didn't know they were prophets? Does it mean that when you deny something, it means you didn't believe in it? No! Of course not! You can believe in someone to be so and so, but you hate him, hence you kill him, because of some your own selfish reason.Another example; they knew there was a messenger to come. They knew his name to be Muhammad. Remember the Jews expected 3 persons: Elias, Christos (Christ), and "That" Prophet. Matt 17:12 Jesus (a.s) said: " But I say unto you, That Elias is come already..." John 1:19 - " And we know Jesus was the Christ" Question is: So who was (That Prophet) "the" prophet to come after Jesus (pbuh)? Matt 21:42 gives the answer, Jesus (a.s) said: " Did you never read in the scriptures,
The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." NOTE: Remember " Unabii Dhidi Ya Arabia" in Isaiah 21:13. Yaani "Neno kuhusu Arabia... katika vichaka vya Arabia" So Jews were still expecting the 3rd person, "that" prophet. And he came, he came from the Arabs, the nations Jews despised and they called the Arabs the "stupid Nation". They said we are rejecting him because, a prophet has to come from the Jews, a prophet cannot come from anyone else! This is arrogance. So back to their boasting in Quran 4:157. If you look at two verses before, from 4:155, you will see how the Jews were argumentative: - they broke their covenant with God (remember how they troubled Moses?) - they rejected God's guidance as shown to them through His Signs (remember the many miracles Moses shown them, yet they asked Moses to show them God?) - they killed their messengers, committing murder and deliberate defiance of God's law - they imagined themselves arrogantly self-sufficient, which means blasphemously closing their hearts against God's grace. These were not the only things these people did! - they rejected faith - they made false charges against a saintly woman like Mary, who was chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus (pbuh) - then they boasted of killing Jesus (pbuh) when this was just self-hallucination - they deliberately hindered people from God's way - they did fraudulent things, oppressing their fellow men So my friend @lonest, the fact that they plotted to kill Jesus (pbuh) and later boasting does not mean they didn't know he was the Messiah.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
I am ok with it.Islam doesn't have a Sabbath because Allah disbanded it.
Allah (God Almighty) disbanded it way before Quran was revealed. He disbanded it in the Bible! If you want me to show you, I will show you. I don't blame you if you don't know whole of your Bible. This is not a Christian issue so why are you referring to the Bible? Show me the original scriptures of the Torah that say the Sabbath was disbanded. You asked why Muslims do not have Sabbath, and I told you because it was already disbanded. And besides, it means God rested, and we know God does not need rest, He does not get tired in guarding His creation. It's blasphemous. Anyway, I'll show you where it was disbanded by God, way before the Quran was sent down. It is in the Bible itself... You want to quote a Bible and you don't know what the word of God is in the Bible? Is this a matter of knowing what the word of God is when convenient I already told you I am ok with Allah disbanding the Sabbath. @symbol, I have to show you the evidence. I don't have the 'original', you can ask your scholars for that, I'm using my copy of KJV that I bought from your book store. Now see how Quran tells the story. M/Mungu akawapatia mtihani, kupatikana kwa samaki siku ya jumamosi, yaani Sabato ili kuwajaribu imani yao. Quran 7:163 " And ask them (O Muhammad ) about the town that was by the sea, when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them for they used to rebel" (similar case in the Qur'an 4:154). Mtihani wenyewe ni gani?Nehemia 13:16 " Watu kutoka Tiro waliokuwa wakiishi Yerusalemu walileta samaki na aina nyingi za bidhaa na kuziuza Yerusalemu siku ya Sabato kwa watu wa Yuda. Niliwakemea wakuu wa Yuda na kuwaambia, "Ni uovu gani huu mnaofanya kuinajisi siku ya Sabato?" Baada ya kunajisi siku hiyo, M/Mungu alifanya nini?Hosea 2:11 Nitakomesha furaha na macheko yake yote: - sikukuu zake za mwaka, - sikukuu za Miandamo ya Mwezi, - siku zake za Sabato, - sikukuu zake zote zilizoamriwa. IMPORTANT: ON THAT DAY, GOD STOPPED MANY THINGS, NOT ONLY SABBATH Even swahili was needed You've made me a believer.A dog can go back to its own vomit.Are you sure those Bible verses you are quoting aren't pornographic? @symbol, you don't want to know the amount of pornography which is in there! Read Gen 38, you find Judah, the father of Jewish race. One day, his daughter in law, his son's wife, got the news that her father-in-law is going to Timnah .. to shave his sheep, but ended up shaving someone on the way without water. So she goes and sits by the way-side, and covers her face. The old man passing by, he sees this woman, and he's arosed, he wants of @swenani game, his landing gear rose. So he comes to her (I'm reading the Holy Bible), " Please let me come in to you" (that means can I land on you. The same Samson did in Gaza, let me do to you) So she said (I'm reading the holy Bible), so she said, ' what will you give me, that you may come into me?'" [ they are negotiating the pricelike they do in Koinange street] " And he said, 'I'll give you a young goat from my flock'" " She said, 'will you give me a pledge till you send it?'" Then he said, ' what guarantee shall I give you?' [ she wants collateral, in case the guy just lands and leaves without paying, like what we hear in city lodgings] She said, ' your signet and cord, and your staff that is in your hand' " Then he gave them to her, and went in to her, and she conceived by him" He made her pregnant, twins, one hit, twinsIllegitimate children!!! And these twins, are Perez and Zerah, who are the great-grandfathers of Jesus Christ according to the genealogy. Children of incest are the great grandfathers of Jesus Subhanallah!! I'm asking, this kind of stories, where do they fit in, into the book of God? To me, it fits into PORNOGRAPHY.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti, do you have your own exclusive meaning of 'pornography', or is the meaning of the word shared across cultures? And what's this definition?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti, do you have your own exclusive meaning of 'pornography', or is the meaning of the word shared across cultures? And what's this definition? @tycho I use English definition of English words. And this is the English definition of the word: Quote:por·nog·ra·phy
pôrˈnägrəfē/
noun
printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.
synonyms: erotica, pornographic material, dirty books; More
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti, do you have your own exclusive meaning of 'pornography', or is the meaning of the word shared across cultures? And what's this definition? @tycho I use English definition of English words. And this is the English definition of the word: Quote:por·nog·ra·phy
pôrˈnägrəfē/
noun
printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.
synonyms: erotica, pornographic material, dirty books; More
And which version of the Bible are you quoting?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:
So my friend @lonest, the fact that they plotted to kill Jesus (pbuh) and later boasting does not mean they didn't know he was the Messiah.
John was killed by the Jews? Where did you get that from? That must be from an Islamic source. John was killed by Herod. Jews did not and do not beleive Jesus is the Messiah! Jews rejected that Jesus as Messiah because they felt that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies and Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah. It is laughable that Mohammed would think that Jews would call Jesus Messiah Who was the messiah to them? The Jews believed and still do that the messiah would: Quote:
Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
In contrast, Jesus took them away from veneration of the temple and places of worship. He did not gather Jews from all over. He let them remain under Roman rule. He wasn't the political messiah they so much waited for! For Muhammad to imagine that God would say Jews called Jesus messiah then even plotted to kill him is preposterous!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Muhammad had some exposure to Christian teachings but missed some things while inventing the quran John 7 Quote: Now some of them from Jerusalem said, “Is this not He whom they seek to kill? 26 But look! He speaks boldly, and they say nothing to Him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is truly[d] the Christ? 27 However, we know where this Man is from; but when the Christ comes, no one knows where He is from.” Quote:Therefore many[i] from the crowd, when they heard this saying, said, “Truly this is the Prophet.” 41 Others said, “This is the Christ.”
But some said, “Will the Christ come out of Galilee? 42 Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?” 43 So there was a division among the people because of Him. 44 Now some of them wanted to take Him, but no one laid hands on Him.
Rejected by the Authorities
45 Then the officers came to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why have you not brought Him?”
46 The officers answered, “No man ever spoke like this Man!”
47 Then the Pharisees answered them, “Are you also deceived? 48 Have any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed in Him? 49 But this crowd that does not know the law is accursed.”
50 Nicodemus (he who came to Jesus by night,[j] being one of them) said to them, 51 “Does our law judge a man before it hears him and knows what he is doing?”
52 They answered and said to him, “Are you also from Galilee? Search and look, for no prophet has arisen[k] out of Galilee.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Jews calling Jesus Messiah and killing him?? Hapo Muhammad alijaribu! John 8 Quote:48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” John 10: 22-23 Quote: Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe.
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