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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:maybe it has remained unchanged for 1400 years... who says the first one written was actually the 'right' thing? for 1400 years they may have been reading the unchanged version of the 'wrong' thing. This is the thing... Muhammad had interacted with Arians and thus he sought to create his own religion that sorted out the problems brought about by Arianism and divisions in Christianity Thus he sought to make a code that would have nil contest and divisions and claim it was from God! He tried. But didn't make it @Lonest he came with a religion from God. He was sent to rectify the errors which the people had made in the previous scripture. He came to correct the additions, deletions, by men. If you want to know whether a religion is from God, check its consistency. If you find contradictions, then its man-made. If it's free from error and contradiction, then it's from God.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote: You see the church continuously carrying out additions, deletions, and alterations of the Bible to suit what they want. Which begs the question: is the Bible God's word? Our discussion suggests that the same can be said of Islam and the Qur'an. Prove. Post 113Islam came after Judaism and Christianity with claims and interpretations about them it couldn't back up.The burden of proof lies with you.The only argument you can put across is Islam is true because Islam says it is.How different is that from any denomination coming up and saying the same thing? You said the same can be said about Qur'an. So I ask you to prove it. When I claim something, I prove it. You took me to post #113, that does not talk about the Qur'an. It talks about the Bible. Prove the Qur'an is not God's word. It challenges you about this already. Quran Sura 4:82 says: " If [Quran] had been from other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction." This is a challenge to you symbol, and other skeptics. So be my guest  Are you're trying to turn the tables or are you simply jumping the gun? It is you who is claiming the Qur'an is the word of God and consistent with previous scriptures.Are you saying the message of the Bible and the message of the Qur'an are the same? It is you who has to prove the Qur'an is the word of God and the way to interpret scripture but what you're doing is quoting the Qur'an.Where is the evidence for your claims? @symbol 1. all prophets from Adam to Muhammad (pbut) were sent with the same message; that is total submission of mankind to Allah (Almighty God). This submission in Arabic is called Islam. 2. Unlike Judaism & Christianity, this name Islam has been given by God. 3. The first Muslim on earth was not Muhammad but Abraham whi submitted totally to God 4. The Quran has no doubt in it. This is achallengr to all mankind, including you and other skeptics. If it were not from the Creator, there would have been found many contradictions 5. The Quran is free of errors, that is prove that it came from Creator Himself 6. Islam is perfect religion. "This day i have perfected your religiin for you, complete my favour uoon you, and have chisen for you Islam as yiur religion" Quran 5:3 7. islam is religion of truth. "Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Lo! Falsehood was destined to vanish" Quran 17:81 8. Islam teaches pure nature. No child is born except in state of purity, everybody is born in submission to God I.e. Islam, this is the nature if every child born. The parents or community convert him to Judaism, Christianity, or other faiths or Atheism. As an animal produces a perfect young animal; do you see any part of its body amputated? "...the nature of Allah, in which He created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not" Quran 30:30 8. Muslims live according to the Quran I know you can be clear when you want to be. You have not shown the Qur'an to be the word of God consistent with previous scripture but instead have successfully shown Islam attempts to apply its views on Judaism and Christianity.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:The Jews killed Jesus because they thought he was just another fraud claiming to be Messiah and blaspheming God!
Jesus to them was just some kafellow from a katown like Ekalakala or Ciakariga who claimed to be the messiah!
They could NEVER have killed Jesus if they believed he was the messiah. Why? Because they were waiting for the messiah to be their saviour!
So it makes no sense, that God, the all knowing one, would say that the Jews were proud of killing their messiah!!
This is one proof that Qur'an is fake. Jews killing Jesus while knowing fully he is their messiah is akin to Kisumu residents killing Raila Odinga! Or Argentinians killing Messi @lonest! do you have a problem understanding English? You said the Jews thought Jesus (pbuh) was a fraudster. So I ask you, was Jesus Christ (pbuh) a fraudster?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:I know you can be clear when you want to be.
You have not shown the Qur'an to be the word of God consistent with previous scripture but instead have successfully shown Islam attempts to apply its views on Judaism and Christianity. @symbol the Quran is consistent with earlier scriptures revealed by God. I already told you in my post #36. Again, just like @lonest didn't read it, yet I addressed to you. Yes, the Quran is consistent with all Divine Scriptures, but in their original form. I already told you, holy books (Torah, Zabur, and Gospel) have been adulterated in the form of additions, deletions, and alterations from the original. Errors have crept into the message brought by Moses, David and Jesus (peace be upon them), done by the church knowingly or unknowingly.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:The Jews killed Jesus because they thought he was just another fraud claiming to be Messiah and blaspheming God!
Jesus to them was just some kafellow from a katown like Ekalakala or Ciakariga who claimed to be the messiah!
They could NEVER have killed Jesus if they believed he was the messiah. Why? Because they were waiting for the messiah to be their saviour!
So it makes no sense, that God, the all knowing one, would say that the Jews were proud of killing their messiah!!
This is one proof that Qur'an is fake. Jews killing Jesus while knowing fully he is their messiah is akin to Kisumu residents killing Raila Odinga! Or Argentinians killing Messi @lonest! do you have a problem understanding English? You said the Jews thought Jesus (pbuh) was a fraudster. So I ask you, was Jesus Christ (pbuh) a fraudster? Who was the messiah to the Jews? ANS Their saviour Why would Jews want to kill their saviour and later brag about it?? Does it make sense?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:The Jews killed Jesus because they thought he was just another fraud claiming to be Messiah and blaspheming God!
Jesus to them was just some kafellow from a katown like Ekalakala or Ciakariga who claimed to be the messiah!
They could NEVER have killed Jesus if they believed he was the messiah. Why? Because they were waiting for the messiah to be their saviour!
So it makes no sense, that God, the all knowing one, would say that the Jews were proud of killing their messiah!!
This is one proof that Qur'an is fake. Jews killing Jesus while knowing fully he is their messiah is akin to Kisumu residents killing Raila Odinga! Or Argentinians killing Messi @lonest! do you have a problem understanding English? You said the Jews thought Jesus (pbuh) was a fraudster. So I ask you, was Jesus Christ (pbuh) a fraudster? Who was the messiah to the Jews? ANS Their saviour Why would Jews want to kill their saviour and later brag about it?? Does it make sense? @lonest, you're going in circles, I answered you in my post #148, point #4 You came back and said the Jews thought Jesus (pbuh) was a fraudster. Now I ask you, was Jesus Christ (pbuh) a fraudster? Please answer my question.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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The Jews did not and still don't believe Jesus was the Messiah! So why would the muslim god say they called him messiah?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:@lonest, you're going in circles, I answered you in my post #148, point #4 You came back and said the Jews thought Jesus (pbuh) was a fraudster. Now I ask you, was Jesus Christ (pbuh) a fraudster? Please answer my question. Post 148 does not answer why Jews would kill their Saviour, their king Jesus wasn't a fraud but the Jews believed he was. They never put their faith in him They didn't recognise him as the messiah. Then we're supposed to believe that God said they bragged that they killed the messiah Mohammed invented this
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:
@Lonest he came with a religion from God. He was sent to rectify the errors which the people had made in the previous scripture. He came to correct the additions, deletions, by men. If you want to know whether a religion is from God, check its consistency. If you find contradictions, then its man-made. If it's free from error and contradiction, then it's from God.
Muhammad trying to harmonise his misunderstanding of scripture by introducing his own clear contradictions!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:I know you can be clear when you want to be.
You have not shown the Qur'an to be the word of God consistent with previous scripture but instead have successfully shown Islam attempts to apply its views on Judaism and Christianity. @symbol the Quran is consistent with earlier scriptures revealed by God. I already told you in my post #36. Again, just like @lonest didn't read it, yet I addressed to you. Yes, the Quran is consistent with all Divine Scriptures, but in their original form. I already told you, holy books (Torah, Zabur, and Gospel) have been adulterated in the form of additions, deletions, and alterations from the original. Errors have crept into the message brought by Moses, David and Jesus (peace be upon them), done by the church knowingly or unknowingly. First of all,you didn't address anything to me in post #36 unless I have become @Robinhood.It seems you didn't read your own post because you are directing me to more claims. I gave you an opportunity to show me what the word of God is in previous scripture and either you can't or won't do it.So far it seems this an attempt to discredit the Bible to discourage the use of it in refuting the narrative you're telling. Additions,deletions and alterations are claims made by Islam against Judaism and Christianity but this is quite convenient because that is exactly what can be said of Islam.The burden of proof lies with you but you're trying to prove it with the same claims. Where is your evidence?
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