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PCUSA (elder brother to PCEA) To Allow Gay Marriages
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
I always remain focused on the debate. I use facts. I use the Bible.
 I like your jokes  You have a reputation of diversions! And the way you like playing angel Just the other day you were saying #youstopwestop Yaani, Wakristo waachane na waislamu na hakutakuwa migogoro ya kidini wazua But you can't resist it. So tuendelee Did I start this thread? And am I not supposed to comment on this thread? Show me where I diverted... Your words in Swahili above "...na hakutakuwa migogoro ya kidini wazua" are your own. I didn't say such words. anybody who has seen your posts knows who is telling the truth The MEANING @lonest! what about my posts? What do you "The MEANING"? You didn't answer my question above. Stop trying to go round and round.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:...He now claims that all these stories did not come from authentic hadiths! Who determines which ones are authentic and which ones are not? @lonest! there are two Islamic sources: the Qur'an and the authentic Hadith. The Qur'an is the Word of Allah, purely the words of Almighty God, 100%. While the Hadiths are the authentic collection of narrations i.e. the words, actions or sayings of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). There are two categories of hadiths: 1. Saheh (authentic) - these are accepted narrations 2. Hasan (“fair, sound, single-chained hadith”) - narrations that have been graded good There is another category, which is rejected: 3. Dhaif (weak) - classified as weak, fabricated narrations and not accepted. Such hadith is made up and is unreliable and/or is a lie Why are hadiths considered weak? There are many reasons: - if one of the narrators was known to have a weak memory - there is no flowing of narrators i.e. if there is a break in narrations - if any of narrator cannot be trusted What about the authentic hadiths? - if 10 or more chain of narrators - there was flowing of narration - if the narration has same meaning of content Saheh hadiths have been compiled by BukhariAnd some of "fair" hadiths by Tirmidhi. While weak hadiths are totally rejected. Any link to the authentic hadiths? Why have you ignored my post? symbols wrote:Before we get to the "ancient manuscripts",let us begin by noting that you have been quoting the Bible.Which book have you been using and why? It will clarify why, when and which book is appropriate for use by your standards. On the issue of authenticity,how authentic is @guru's post and my reply here. 1. @symbols, yes here is the link to authentic hadiths2. I use KJV. Please explain yourself more. 3. About @guru's post, she already responded to you yesterday.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:God said these? Quote:And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful Quote:And indeed, we are those who exalt Allah @lonest, please quote the verses for quick reference.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:God is also supposed to have said Quote:And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. That the Jews would brag they killed the Messiah! This is Quran chapter 4, sura Al Nisa verse 157. What is your point?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:...The bible that I have is faithful to the "ancient manuscripts" as you understand them to be. I cannot speak for the ones you have been quoting and indeed, take note that you have been quoting them as the authority, as authentic.
Please make up your mind on which one you will be making reference to.
I hereby invite you to make the first move, unless you think I already have - in which case you respond then. @muriel, sorry I was so up and down today... Let us kick off, as you see @lonest disappeared into thin air, all the issues I raised, he could not comment in either of them, he could only throw abuses and cursing. Why don't you start by telling me which Bible you have? Then we can agree which one we will be making reference to. Then you will tell me how "faithful" it is to "ancient manuscript". I am not sure we will agree but I will make reference to the received text. I see Lolest has not disappeared. lol. So as not to have diversions of which you are famous for I will restrict myself to this while  handles the koran. @muriel, you said yours is 'faithful' to "ancient manuscript". Please go ahead and tell me which one you have.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:A lesson learnt from this thread; The Muslim can't know the truth by reading the Quran alone, nor the Christian by reading his preffered version alone.
If this is true, then other non preferred Scriptures must have truth in them. Otherwise one could have the truth by reading and believing in his preferred book alone.
That makes 'truth' to have 'existential priority' over 'textual priority'. Which truth doesn't a Muslim know?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:A lesson learnt from this thread; The Muslim can't know the truth by reading the Quran alone, nor the Christian by reading his preffered version alone.
If this is true, then other non preferred Scriptures must have truth in them. Otherwise one could have the truth by reading and believing in his preferred book alone.
That makes 'truth' to have 'existential priority' over 'textual priority'. Which truth doesn't a Muslim know? As per the lesson, I can't tell what the Muslim doesn't know now. But I can tell he doesn't know everything. But it would be sad if he doesn't know that he doesn't know everything.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:A lesson learnt from this thread; The Muslim can't know the truth by reading the Quran alone, nor the Christian by reading his preffered version alone.
If this is true, then other non preferred Scriptures must have truth in them. Otherwise one could have the truth by reading and believing in his preferred book alone.
That makes 'truth' to have 'existential priority' over 'textual priority'. Which truth doesn't a Muslim know? As per the lesson, I can't tell what the Muslim doesn't know now. But I can tell he doesn't know everything. But it would be sad if he doesn't know that he doesn't know everything. Ah! The Muslim doesn't know what am thinking about now.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:...The bible that I have is faithful to the "ancient manuscripts" as you understand them to be. I cannot speak for the ones you have been quoting and indeed, take note that you have been quoting them as the authority, as authentic.
Please make up your mind on which one you will be making reference to.
I hereby invite you to make the first move, unless you think I already have - in which case you respond then. @muriel, sorry I was so up and down today... Let us kick off, as you see @lonest disappeared into thin air, all the issues I raised, he could not comment in either of them, he could only throw abuses and cursing. Why don't you start by telling me which Bible you have? Then we can agree which one we will be making reference to. Then you will tell me how "faithful" it is to "ancient manuscript". I am not sure we will agree but I will make reference to the received text. I see Lolest has not disappeared. lol. So as not to have diversions of which you are famous for I will restrict myself to this while  handles the koran. @muriel, you said yours is 'faithful' to "ancient manuscript". Please go ahead and tell me which one you have. Quote "faithfully". At least quote me faithfully. Please don't do selective (mis)quotes. I said, Quote:The bible that I have is faithful to the "ancient manuscripts" as you understand them to be. So why are you giving me the unnecessary work of telling you what you "understand"? Unless you don't understand it! It is indeed sad that you don't know that you don't know. But I will indulge you for arguments sake, kjv.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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@muriel, you said the below: Muriel wrote:When it comes to the different bible versions, Alphdoti has a point that the readers and users of the bibles that are translated from "ancient manuscripts" are exceeding hard pressed to defend...
A Bible is not The Bible.
The only logical thing left to do is become in effect "muslims" - by the relegation of fundamental truths - because hairs will be pulled off trying to explain these things yet they wont be explained... Now that you have stated that yours is KJV as per below Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:...The bible that I have is faithful to the "ancient manuscripts" as you understand them to be. Why don't you start by telling me which Bible you have? Then you will tell me how "faithful" it is to "ancient manuscript". I am not sure we will agree but I will make reference to the received text. @muriel, you said yours is 'faithful' to "ancient manuscript". Please go ahead and tell me which one you have. ...But I will indulge you for arguments sake, kjv. Tell me what was your beef in your post here
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