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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:...He now claims that all these stories did not come from authentic hadiths! Who determines which ones are authentic and which ones are not? @lonest! there are two Islamic sources: the Qur'an and the authentic Hadith. The Qur'an is the Word of Allah, purely the words of Almighty God, 100%. While the Hadiths are the authentic collection of narrations i.e. the words, actions or sayings of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). There are two categories of hadiths: 1. Saheh (authentic) - these are accepted narrations 2. Hasan (“fair, sound, single-chained hadith”) - narrations that have been graded good There is another category, which is rejected: 3. Dhaif (weak) - classified as weak, fabricated narrations and not accepted. Such hadith is made up and is unreliable and/or is a lie Why are hadiths considered weak? There are many reasons: - if one of the narrators was known to have a weak memory - there is no flowing of narrators i.e. if there is a break in narrations - if any of narrator cannot be trusted What about the authentic hadiths? - if 10 or more chain of narrators - there was flowing of narration - if the narration has same meaning of content Saheh hadiths have been compiled by BukhariAnd some of "fair" hadiths by Tirmidhi. While weak hadiths are totally rejected. Good now we're getting somewhere. The Quran is supposed to be God's word
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:BTW, which prophecy is this that Adam made? Never seen him as a prophet! Lonest! Adam (peace be upon him) was a prophet. How? Upon completion of the process of Creation, and after God created Adam, He taught Adam the names of all things. Things great and trivial, every material and every instrument and their usefulness. The Quran tells us that after that, God examined the angels by asking them about names of the things, and the angels admitted ignorance of them. Quran tells us that angels only know what God has taught them. So we realize that the first human was not an ignorant creature. He didn't acquire knowledge gradually. He was not a pagan who came to know source of creation later. He was not a dumb creation who learned language out of his own evolutionary faculties. He didn't lead a life of beast and evolved civilization later. Rather he was provided by faculty of thought and speech, freedom of choice. Was taught to know creator from start. And was created in best of forms. Creator spoke to him, and he obeyed the designer or creator. So, those who receive Divine revelation from God, is an prophet.I hope you can now see Adam as was a prophet?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:Good now we're getting somewhere. The Quran is supposed to be God's word Absolutely. Qur'an is a Word of Allah, in statements and meanings.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
I always remain focused on the debate. I use facts. I use the Bible.
 I like your jokes You have a reputation of diversions! And the way you like playing angel Just the other day you were saying #youstopwestop Yaani, Wakristo waachane na waislamu na hakutakuwa migogoro ya kidini wazua But you can't resist it. So tuendelee Did I start this thread? And am I not supposed to comment on this thread? Show me where I diverted... Your words in Swahili above "...na hakutakuwa migogoro ya kidini wazua" are your own. I didn't say such words.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
I always remain focused on the debate. I use facts. I use the Bible.
I like your jokes You have a reputation of diversions! And the way you like playing angel Just the other day you were saying #youstopwestop Yaani, Wakristo waachane na waislamu na hakutakuwa migogoro ya kidini wazua But you can't resist it. So tuendelee Did I start this thread? And am I not supposed to comment on this thread? Show me where I diverted... Your words in Swahili above "...na hakutakuwa migogoro ya kidini wazua" are your own. I didn't say such words. anybody who has seen your posts knows who is telling the truth The MEANING
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:...He now claims that all these stories did not come from authentic hadiths! Who determines which ones are authentic and which ones are not? @lonest! there are two Islamic sources: the Qur'an and the authentic Hadith. The Qur'an is the Word of Allah, purely the words of Almighty God, 100%. While the Hadiths are the authentic collection of narrations i.e. the words, actions or sayings of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). There are two categories of hadiths: 1. Saheh (authentic) - these are accepted narrations 2. Hasan (“fair, sound, single-chained hadith”) - narrations that have been graded good There is another category, which is rejected: 3. Dhaif (weak) - classified as weak, fabricated narrations and not accepted. Such hadith is made up and is unreliable and/or is a lie Why are hadiths considered weak? There are many reasons: - if one of the narrators was known to have a weak memory - there is no flowing of narrators i.e. if there is a break in narrations - if any of narrator cannot be trusted What about the authentic hadiths? - if 10 or more chain of narrators - there was flowing of narration - if the narration has same meaning of content Saheh hadiths have been compiled by BukhariAnd some of "fair" hadiths by Tirmidhi. While weak hadiths are totally rejected. Any link to the authentic hadiths? Why have you ignored my post? symbols wrote:Before we get to the "ancient manuscripts",let us begin by noting that you have been quoting the Bible.Which book have you been using and why? It will clarify why, when and which book is appropriate for use by your standards. On the issue of authenticity,how authentic is @guru's post and my reply here.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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God said these? Quote:And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful Quote:And indeed, we are those who exalt Allah
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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God is also supposed to have said Quote:And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. That the Jews would brag they killed the Messiah! 
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:...The bible that I have is faithful to the "ancient manuscripts" as you understand them to be. I cannot speak for the ones you have been quoting and indeed, take note that you have been quoting them as the authority, as authentic.
Please make up your mind on which one you will be making reference to.
I hereby invite you to make the first move, unless you think I already have - in which case you respond then. @muriel, sorry I was so up and down today... Let us kick off, as you see @lonest disappeared into thin air, all the issues I raised, he could not comment in either of them, he could only throw abuses and cursing. Why don't you start by telling me which Bible you have? Then we can agree which one we will be making reference to. Then you will tell me how "faithful" it is to "ancient manuscript". I am not sure we will agree but I will make reference to the received text. I see Lolest has not disappeared. lol. So as not to have diversions of which you are famous for I will restrict myself to this while handles the koran.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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A lesson learnt from this thread; The Muslim can't know the truth by reading the Quran alone, nor the Christian by reading his preffered version alone.
If this is true, then other non preferred Scriptures must have truth in them. Otherwise one could have the truth by reading and believing in his preferred book alone.
That makes 'truth' to have 'existential priority' over 'textual priority'.
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